Atari TT030 and system V

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wbyte
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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby wbyte » Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:51 pm

Eero Tamminen wrote:Regarding MMU support in emulators...

Aranym emulates 040 and its (simpler) MMU.

While latest Hatari can emulate those, it can emulate also 030, its MMU and instruction & data cache.

Once Hatari implements SCSI driver for TT emulation - we'll have an emulator capable to run ASV

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Eero Tamminen
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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby Eero Tamminen » Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:35 pm

Thomas added initial read-only SCSI support to Hatari week ago:
https://hg.tuxfamily.org/mercurialroot/ ... a699fbcee8

And option to enable it:
https://hg.tuxfamily.org/mercurialroot/ ... dd1b83f34e

Is read support enough?

I think that like MiNT, ASV needs also (attached) patch to ignore TT SCC regs probing as SCC isn't emulated yet by Hatari.

tt-scc-workaround.patch.txt
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Richard
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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby Richard » Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:30 pm

So been sorting through some stuff and came across these....
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arf
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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby arf » Tue Aug 28, 2018 5:45 pm

Richard wrote:So been sorting through some stuff and came across these....


Congrats, nice find!

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby mikro » Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:04 pm

Richard wrote:So been sorting through some stuff and came across these....

Welcome back, Richard! As you can see, thanks to your hard disk image a lot of good stuff has happened. Please image the floppies, too. :)

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby tenox » Wed Aug 29, 2018 5:30 am

Richard wrote:So been sorting through some stuff and came across these....


Wow this is super cool. Any chance you could image these?

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby Richard » Wed Aug 29, 2018 9:19 am

Ok, disks imaged using DD. Only one did not image. These have not been tested, so if someone could do the honours and let me know.

Disk that didn't image:

Atari System V - Rel. 4.0, Vers. 1.1-06 Supplemental Diskette Disk 1/1

Imaged Disks:

ASV1.IMG - Atari System V - Rel. 4.0, Vers. 1.1-06 Boot Diskette Disk 1/1
ASV2.IMG - AIX SysAdmin Specs
ASV3.IMG - Atari System V - Update for GEM->Motif Example TAR Format Disk 1/1 (Hand written notes: 12/20/91 New Master Owner Problem Solved)
ASV4.IMG - Atari System V - Rel. 4.0, Vers. 1.1-06 Supplemental Diskette
ASV5.IMG - Atari System V - Rel. 4.0, Vers. 1.1-06 libXm.Z [Update]
ASV6.IMG - Atari System V - Rel. 4.0, Vers. 1.1-06 Post XDM Update
ASV7.IMG - ASV Update 1.1 Disk 1/3 Feb 25, 92
ASV8.IMG - ASV Update 1.1 Disk 2/3 Feb 25, 92
ASV9.IMG - ASV Update 1.1 Disk 3/3 Feb 25, 92
ASV10.IMG - FuncSpecs SysAdmin 9/28/90
ASV11.IMG - SetBoot Version 1.1 Source Code TOS Version February 18, 1992

Some interesting bits there...

Richard.
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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby leech » Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:36 pm

GEM > Motif? That would have been awesome to see some old GEM programs ported to X11/Motif. Of course these days it would be cooler to do Qt/GTK > GEM.
Atari 8Bits: 800xl, 600xl, XEGS, 800, 130xe, 130xe (VBXE, U1MB, Stereo POKEY)
Atari STs: 1040STf (broken shifter), 1040STe, Mega STe, TT030, Falcon (CT60e, SuperVidel)

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby tenox » Thu Aug 30, 2018 6:11 am

Thank you!!!!!!!!!! I'm going to upload these to http://www.atariunix.com/

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby Richard » Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:35 am

tenox wrote:Thank you!!!!!!!!!! I'm going to upload these to http://www.atariunix.com/


No problem.

Was thinking about digging out one of my TTs and plugging the ASV hard disk in, although lugging the huge ecl monitor our of storage might be tricky.

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby viking272 » Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:39 am

Sounds like a plan Richard!

Tenox, on your AtariLinux site you mention that the build was getting newer versions/updates - is someone looking into this? An interesting project!

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby Eero Tamminen » Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:58 pm

Eero Tamminen wrote:Thomas added initial read-only SCSI support to Hatari week ago:
https://hg.tuxfamily.org/mercurialroot/ ... a699fbcee8

And option to enable it:
https://hg.tuxfamily.org/mercurialroot/ ... dd1b83f34e

Is read support enough?

I think that like MiNT, ASV needs also (attached) patch to ignore TT SCC regs probing as SCC isn't emulated yet by Hatari.

tt-scc-workaround.patch.txt


And now there's write support:
https://hg.tuxfamily.org/mercurialroot/ ... 09030b595b

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby tenox » Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:36 am

Richard wrote:No problem.

Was thinking about digging out one of my TTs and plugging the ASV hard disk in, although lugging the huge ecl monitor our of storage might be tricky.


Inventronik now has a cheap ECL2VGA adapter for 25 Euro. I have personally not tested it but it could work on a modern LCD monitor.

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby tenox » Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:07 am

viking272 wrote:Sounds like a plan Richard!

Tenox, on your AtariLinux site you mention that the build was getting newer versions/updates - is someone looking into this? An interesting project!


Yeah I am in spare time. To date what has been done are some basic software ports here: http://www.atariunix.com/sw_ports/

Before more ports are made I also want to consolidate the available ASV disk images in to one combined image with all the software.

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby leech » Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:23 pm

I need to give this a play. Wonder how hard it would be to add Lightning (hence a USB stack) to it.
Atari 8Bits: 800xl, 600xl, XEGS, 800, 130xe, 130xe (VBXE, U1MB, Stereo POKEY)
Atari STs: 1040STf (broken shifter), 1040STe, Mega STe, TT030, Falcon (CT60e, SuperVidel)

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby arf » Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:03 pm

leech wrote:I need to give this a play. Wonder how hard it would be to add Lightning (hence a USB stack) to it.


Easy! You just need to know how write device drivers for ASV. And a USB stack for ASV. Talking to the Lightning itself is easy, as there’s free code to do so.

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby leech » Fri Aug 31, 2018 8:06 pm

arf wrote:
leech wrote:I need to give this a play. Wonder how hard it would be to add Lightning (hence a USB stack) to it.


Easy! You just need to know how write device drivers for ASV. And a USB stack for ASV. Talking to the Lightning itself is easy, as there’s free code to do so.

Haha, anyone around here write a USB stack? How close is ASV to say a BSD?
Atari 8Bits: 800xl, 600xl, XEGS, 800, 130xe, 130xe (VBXE, U1MB, Stereo POKEY)
Atari STs: 1040STf (broken shifter), 1040STe, Mega STe, TT030, Falcon (CT60e, SuperVidel)

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby derkom » Fri Aug 31, 2018 8:39 pm

leech wrote:How close is ASV to say a BSD?


Well, for starters, it's SysV, not BSD. 8)

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby leech » Fri Aug 31, 2018 8:56 pm

derkom wrote:
leech wrote:How close is ASV to say a BSD?


Well, for starters, it's SysV, not BSD. 8)

Yeah, Unix systems are all similar.. but different enough to be annoying. Only thing out there that has so many different variants. One can somewhat jump from one to the other, but there are always weird little things. And the driver APIs are vastly different of course.

My question was simply how close are they in any sort of driver compatibility to ease porting. I know Linux has done so many different things on how it handles devices that it's probably no where near what SYSV should need.

Hell, if someone can fork / port a file system like ZFS from Solaris into *BSD/Linux, taking a USB stack from one of those and putting it into SYSV can't be too hard, right (read 'too hard' as not impossible).

Edit: https://danielmiessler.com/blog/the-dif ... em-v-unix/ kind of a short but sweet useless summary, give us the details!
Atari 8Bits: 800xl, 600xl, XEGS, 800, 130xe, 130xe (VBXE, U1MB, Stereo POKEY)
Atari STs: 1040STf (broken shifter), 1040STe, Mega STe, TT030, Falcon (CT60e, SuperVidel)

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby mfro » Sat Sep 01, 2018 5:57 am

ASV drivers *can* be written (have done a slip driver for it decades ago). Driver structure is very similar to SCO Unix (that much later became famous for different reasons). Examples can be found somewhere on the net.

What's completely undocumented (and unknown, at least to me) is the structure of the hardware device probe routines that get executed on kernel startup (that trigger kernel reconfiguration/driver inclusion if they find a new or missing device). They look more like firmware than part of an OS.

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby derkom » Sat Sep 01, 2018 12:37 pm

mfro wrote:What's completely undocumented (and unknown, at least to me) is the structure of the hardware device probe routines that get executed on kernel startup


Given that it's a port of UniSoft UNIX, it's probably a moderately safe assumption that it's similar or identical to the approaches used in some of their other contemporary ports. I would suggest looking perhaps at A/UX (their 68k Macintosh SysV port), which became a lot more mature, and is certainly much better documented.

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby tenox » Sat Sep 01, 2018 5:45 pm

Good news is that ASV is SVR4 which was most widely ported SysV our there. Solaris 2 for which sources are available was SVR4.

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby leech » Sat Sep 01, 2018 5:48 pm

So it could be possible to implement some new drivers (if we could get coders to do so). Get VME and video support and we could have a cool Unix workstation going. Not sure how useful that would be, definitely would have the cool factor though!
Atari 8Bits: 800xl, 600xl, XEGS, 800, 130xe, 130xe (VBXE, U1MB, Stereo POKEY)
Atari STs: 1040STf (broken shifter), 1040STe, Mega STe, TT030, Falcon (CT60e, SuperVidel)

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby tenox » Sat Sep 01, 2018 5:52 pm

Yeah I think the most important driver would be a non-Riebl NIC driver, for instance RTL8019AS / EtherNEC. Regarding cool unix workstation I tried to use TT in this matter for a while but unfortunately it's just too damn slow.

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby leech » Sat Sep 01, 2018 6:00 pm

tenox wrote:Yeah I think the most important driver would be a non-Riebl NIC driver, for instance RTL8019AS / EtherNEC. Regarding cool unix workstation I tried to use TT in this matter for a while but unfortunately it's just too damn slow.

Yeah, that was kind of what I was thinking. Though one would think part of that might be due to memory swapping? Back when I first started using Linux, I think I had 32mb of RAM and it swapped a lot once I started up a few applications, which of course slows everything to a crawl.
Atari 8Bits: 800xl, 600xl, XEGS, 800, 130xe, 130xe (VBXE, U1MB, Stereo POKEY)
Atari STs: 1040STf (broken shifter), 1040STe, Mega STe, TT030, Falcon (CT60e, SuperVidel)


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