Atari TT030 and system V

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Eero Tamminen
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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby Eero Tamminen » Sun Jul 06, 2014 4:09 pm

tenox wrote:I've seen it before, but I highly doubt this can be easily ported to ASV. SVGAlib or GGI would have to be ported first.


Why? WWS worked on top of raw framebuffer on MiNT, MacMiNT, NetBSD, SunOS and Linux without any intermediate libraries. See for example:
- server/graph/mint.c
- server/graph/linux.c

The reasons why on Linux support was added also for libGGI backend, and later for libSDL one, are:
- with them one can run WWS in an X window to debug it without needing another machine for that
- input handling; supporting random PC mouses (with their different protocols) and keyboards (special keys like arrows) without pain

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby tenox » Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:08 am

That's cool. I missed the fact in has a raw framebuffer support. Then probably not a problem. I will check it out!


Eero Tamminen wrote:
tenox wrote:I've seen it before, but I highly doubt this can be easily ported to ASV. SVGAlib or GGI would have to be ported first.


Why? WWS worked on top of raw framebuffer on MiNT, MacMiNT, NetBSD, SunOS and Linux without any intermediate libraries. See for example:
- server/graph/mint.c
- server/graph/linux.c

The reasons why on Linux support was added also for libGGI backend, and later for libSDL one, are:
- with them one can run WWS in an X window to debug it without needing another machine for that
- input handling; supporting random PC mouses (with their different protocols) and keyboards (special keys like arrows) without pain

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tenox
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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby tenox » Mon Jul 07, 2014 5:12 am

There is no need sending cards. I will dump and post my image online!

With SD card it's much easier than SCSI HDD because I will just stick it to my PC card reader :)

viking272 wrote:
mdivancic wrote:So, if I send you a Micro SD or two card can you image me a copy of your setup?

I think quite a few people maybe interested in this, so is a new image possible?! :-)

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 4

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby tenox » Sun Jul 13, 2014 7:17 am

Update: my TT has been a busy bee for last week or so. I have ported and compiled following software:

mosaic 2.7 including png and jpeg support
libraries: libpng libjpeg zlib gnu termcap
gnu: automake, grep, gzip, make, m4
top - partially, still missing some stuff
bash: work in progress

I was also running out of disk space so I expanded Richard's image to go to a 512 MB size SD card.

I need to do some additional clean up and I will post it online for download soon!

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby tenox » Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:28 am

Video: ASV boots up on TT030

http://vimeo.com/100657320

The quality is little crappy because the video capture hardware doesn't like TT-HIGH too much. I will try to improve.

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby tenox » Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:35 am

Mosaic 2.7b5 with PNG and JPEG support.
Ready for make install or just copy mosaic-2.5/src/Mosaic to /usr/local/bin.
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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby tenox » Mon Jul 14, 2014 7:39 am

Okas ASV Software Ports has a new home:

http://www.atariunix.com/sw_ports/

I will be uploading my stuff there regularly hopefully...

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby amadama » Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:17 am

Tenox,
Great job with all the ports to ASV!
Thanks for the video also. That was the first time I have ever seen Atari Unix in "action".
Any way you can do some more videos showing some apps and the actual performance?
Alex

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby viking272 » Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:30 pm

tenox wrote:Okas ASV Software Ports has a new home:

http://www.atariunix.com/sw_ports/

I will be uploading my stuff there regularly hopefully...


This is brilliant, nice work Tenox!
When looking at X windows running I immediately thought of XPilot http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XPilot and the many hours I played on that instead of studying! I wonder if that runs? :D
Also when you can some more videos of other apps would be great?
Thanks

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby tenox » Tue Jul 15, 2014 11:19 pm

I will do more videos, but I need to improve quality a lot. The video is really crappy for my standards. It's a combination of capture hardware in TT High mode, 1 bit mode, compression, both of the video cap sw and vimeo/youtube post processing.

Porting software is very tricky. ASV is a very old Unix and lacks all modern stuff. However XPilot is from the same era so porting some old version of it is certainly possible! I will give it a try some day.

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby mfro » Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:44 am

tenox wrote:I will do more videos, but I need to improve quality a lot. The video is really crappy for my standards. It's a combination of capture hardware in TT High mode, 1 bit mode, compression, both of the video cap sw and vimeo/youtube post processing.

Porting software is very tricky. ASV is a very old Unix and lacks all modern stuff. However XPilot is from the same era so porting some old version of it is certainly possible! I will give it a try some day.


I don't think that this will work. XPilot needs a 256-colour display because it uses 2 x 4 colour planes for Xlib software double buffering. Getting it to work on b&w would probably require a major rewrite with disappointing results.

If this would however motivate you to do a CrazyDots 256 colour X server, I'd very likely be motivated enough to dig my TT out of storage ;)

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby tenox » Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:15 pm

mfro wrote:I don't think that this will work. XPilot needs a 256-colour display because it uses 2 x 4 colour planes for Xlib software double buffering. Getting it to work on b&w would probably require a major rewrite with disappointing results.

If this would however motivate you to do a CrazyDots 256 colour X server, I'd very likely be motivated enough to dig my TT out of storage ;)


Good point, but remember most games from 1991 were actually behaving exceptionally well on 1 bit displays. That's why I mentioned an old version of it :)

At some point I will definitely want to port more recent X11 version. Like R5. I can have look on other card beside TT framebuffer. The problem however is that in order to use VME graphics card I would need to vacate my network card. Which I'm not going to do.

So maybe a driver for NetUsbee first? Actually ASV comes with driver examples and there is SVR4 source code available, plus NetBSD has it, so such driver is not that far off. Also Riebl cards are hard to come by, so it would be a priority of sorts.

So many things to do...

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby mfro » Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:50 pm

tenox wrote:...The problem however is that in order to use VME graphics card I would need to vacate my network card. Which I'm not going to do...

No need to decide for network _or_ graphics card. I have a Riebl card and a CrazyDots on a VME bus extender. They play together well.

With a little tinkering, you can even seemlessly squeeze them both into the TT case.

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby tenox » Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:54 pm

mfro wrote:No need to decide for network _or_ graphics card. I have a Riebl card and a CrazyDots on a VME bus extender. They play together well.

With a little tinkering, you can even seemlessly squeeze them both into the TT case.


Picture or it didn't happen! :lol:

I still think driver for NetUsbee is priority because I know people who would like to run ASV but cant get hold of Riebl card. That reminds me, I need to look on how to do SLIP / PPP on ASV.

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby tenox » Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:55 am

Just ported TOP utility to ASV.

top.png


Some numbers may not be 100% right. I can see that load average doesn't match this of xload. Also memory shows 16MB where it should be 20. Will need to look in to that.

http://www.atariunix.com/sw_ports/top-3.8beta1-asv.tar.gz
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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby mfro » Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:02 am

nedit is a nice Motif-based text editor that worked fine for me. Worth compiling.

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby tenox » Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:56 am

Actually just found out ASV comes by default with a nice editor called WXD.

wx2.png


I think this is it: https://www.lri.fr/~pa/

At least same author. I will see if I can compile Nedit!
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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby Mark_G » Sat Jul 19, 2014 10:35 am

Tenox,

Are there some programs on my image, not available on your working system?

If so, can they be transferred ?

Mark
Last edited by Mark_G on Sun Jul 20, 2014 8:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby tenox » Sun Jul 20, 2014 5:59 am

Mark_G wrote:Tenox,

Are there some programs on my image, not available on your working system?

If so, can the be transferred ?

Mark


Excellent question. I have been focusing solely on Richard's image because looks to me as if it's never version of ASV. For instance:
mark: uname 1.1-06 - gcc 1.39-06
richard: uname UE12 - gcc 1.40

Interestingly your image contains more software than Richards, for example Perl. I definitely plan to transfer some stuff from your image to Richard.

The utilities that I'm porting (eg grep, gzip, top, mosaic) are most definitely not included in neither your or Richards image.

Yes they can be installed on both, in fact I just tried top on your image, which worked!

Before you load them to your image there is a small issue. It's nearly full. 90 something percent on almost all file systems. Richard's image suffered from a similar problem and I had to spend a considerable amount of time extending and re-arranging the file systems. One day I will have to do it again, probably in offline mode booting from another hard disk. When doing so I will also do that to your image. I'm planning to extend them both to just short of 1 GB so that they fit on 1 GB SD card nicely.

Interesting fact about your image though is that it appears to me as if it's faster, snappier and better configured. As in it boots faster, large programs like kernel config load faster and are snappier in use. Finally Motif menus are better populated and there is more software. I guess nothings perfect in this world, but my intention is to merge them both to make a perfect image ;)

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby tenox » Sun Jul 20, 2014 8:05 am

mfro wrote:nedit is a nice Motif-based text editor that worked fine for me. Worth compiling.


You wanted nedit? Here it is:

nedit.png


:cheers:
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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby wbyte » Sun Jul 20, 2014 1:59 pm

Well done!
mfro what happened with ASV floppy disks? Did you manage to backup them?
I think it will be great if we manage to find a working 'RUNTIME PRODUCT' qic tape and to start this from scratch with fresh install.

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby mfro » Sun Jul 20, 2014 2:10 pm

wbyte wrote:...mfro what happened with ASV floppy disks? Did you manage to backup them?...


Not yet. I'm currently 2500 kms away from them.

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby TXG/MNX » Wed Oct 08, 2014 9:37 am

Hello, I am completely new to this, I did see the video that runs system V on the TT.

Is there a document how-to install this on a TT030 ? I got one overhere with 8mb st ram and 16Mb tt ram would that be possible ?
I also got a riebl card and Pams is only Riebl supported ?

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby tenox » Wed Oct 08, 2014 8:55 pm

TXG/MNX wrote:Hello, I am completely new to this, I did see the video that runs system V on the TT.

Is there a document how-to install this on a TT030 ? I got one overhere with 8mb st ram and 16Mb tt ram would that be possible ?
I also got a riebl card and Pams is only Riebl supported ?


Yes, it's certainly possible. However currently there is no working install media in existence, so what you do is apply an existing, pre-installed system image to your TT hard disk. Go to http://www.atariunix.com/ and you will find them under hdd images. Richard is better than Mark.

You will need to use dd on Linux or Winhex or equivalent on Windows to apply the raw hard disk image to your HDD. It must be SCSI HDD not ACSI. I highly recommend to go with a CF card. Currently known to work is SCSI2SD from http://www.codesrc.com/mediawiki/index. ... le=SCSI2SD. It will be much easier to apply the image to it, but SCSI2SD sadly is much slower than a real HDD.

Yes I believe only Riebl network card is supported.

Let me know if you need any details or run in to issues. Happy to help!

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Re: Atari TT030 and system V

Postby TXG/MNX » Wed Oct 08, 2014 8:58 pm

Thanx i will get me a scsi2sd first but is it really slower when ultra sd carts are used?


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