Falcon Afterburner - Please Help!

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Re: Falcon Afterburner - Please Help!

Postby rpineau » Wed May 29, 2013 9:49 pm

I'll PM you a download link for the sources :) .

Regarding the 68060 lib and missing instruction, as long as we can make it to the part that load the toolkit we should be fine.
If not then we will need to patch the TOS and burn some eprom with the patch.
Or use the AB040 bus (not the falcon expansion bus) to host a card with a flash where we can put the TOS and force the 060 to boot on it.

Regards, Rodolphe
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Re: Falcon Afterburner - Please Help!

Postby dml » Thu May 30, 2013 3:15 pm

rpineau wrote:I'll PM you a download link for the sources :) .


Thanks. I had a quick look and I see several modifications and unfamiliar comments so some work has definitely been done on it :) I'll study it a bit more closely later.

rpineau wrote:Regarding the 68060 lib and missing instruction, as long as we can make it to the part that load the toolkit we should be fine.


This part of the AB is unclear to me - as far as I understand there is no TOS ROM on the board, but the still 68040 manages to execute enough of the ROM to reach the desktop without crashing. IIRC The early part of TOS has some 68030/68851 instructions which shouldn't work on 040. Knowing the answer to this puzzle would probably help with the 68060 too.

rpineau wrote:Or use the AB040 bus (not the falcon expansion bus) to host a card with a flash where we can put the TOS and force the 060 to boot on it.


The CT60 works in a similar fashion albeit more integrated - it has it's own ROM image/flash onboard. I'm quite curious how the AB manages to work with the same sorts of problems, unless there is a ROM hidden on there - and if so then perhaps it's already enough to boot 060 :)

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Re: Falcon Afterburner - Please Help!

Postby rpineau » Thu May 30, 2013 4:43 pm

I started routing the adapter as a "flat" board.... I only have the few component needed for the power and the few signal from the 74F157 as well as the data bus. Eagle is already having issues on this with the free version due to the limitation in size and number of layers (I had to go down on the track size, gap and drill to 6 mil, 6mil and 12 mil and use a routing grid of 8 mil ). I still need to add the address bus and all the other control signals... now I understand why the other adapters use the sandwich approach. I'll see if I can get it to route to 100% like that but if not we will have to go back to the 2 boards sandwich design.

@Doug : I agree with you that it is very strange that the AB040 can boot that far in the TOS.
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Re: Falcon Afterburner - Please Help!

Postby rpineau » Thu May 30, 2013 8:02 pm

So I managed to route the whole thing as a flat adapter on 100x80mm PCB using Eagle (see attached zip file).
The routing grid is very tight (6mil / 0.1524mm) as well as the track size (also 6mil / 0.1524mm).
The attached zip file contains the schematics, board, dru and ctl file for Eagle 6.x (the free version, 6.4.0 in my case as I did this on Mac OS X).

If someone can double check my work.. I'm only human and might have made a mistake (or two) :) ?

Regards, Rodolphe


Edit : see my last post for the latest PCB and schematics
Last edited by rpineau on Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Falcon Afterburner - Please Help!

Postby rpineau » Thu May 30, 2013 10:02 pm

Can someone double check on their AB040 that pin 1 of the 68040 is in the top left corner ? (I don't have mine here and won't be able to check before at least this weekend). I just want to be sure that as I did put it on the top left corner of the adapter it'll fit on the AB040. The orientation of the 68060 doesn't matter after as it's positioned to help the routing as much as possible... not to be pretty ;) .

Regards, Rodolphe
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Re: Falcon Afterburner - Please Help!

Postby dml » Thu May 30, 2013 10:35 pm

rpineau wrote:Can someone double check on their AB040 that pin 1 of the 68040 is in the top left corner ? (I don't have mine here and won't be able to check before at least this weekend). I just want to be sure that as I did put it on the top left corner of the adapter it'll fit on the AB040. The orientation of the 68060 doesn't matter after as it's positioned to help the routing as much as possible... not to be pretty ;) .

Regards, Rodolphe


I'll check mine and get back to you tomorrow. The case isn't open but I took photos of it recently and will still have them here somewhere.

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Re: Falcon Afterburner - Please Help!

Postby dml » Thu May 30, 2013 10:40 pm

In fact I found it, here:

ab2.jpg


Just be careful the board revision is the same! I don't know how many of these were produced or how much they varied. I'll assume for now the designer didn't rotate the CPU on a whim :)
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Re: Falcon Afterburner - Please Help!

Postby rpineau » Thu May 30, 2013 11:47 pm

Thanks Doug.
So I need to turn the CPU as it clearly shows pin 1 being at the bottom right corner.
I'll re-route the board and update the zip file.
Regards, Rodolphe
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Re: Falcon Afterburner - Please Help!

Postby rpineau » Thu May 30, 2013 11:51 pm

Here is the new version with the 68040 in the right direction.
I also added 4 decoupling capacitors on the 68060 VDD.
I used a LM1084 for the 3.3v low drop voltage regulator, it requires less component that the LT1084 .. and I can find it easily.
Regards, Rodolphe

Edit : Added a JTAG connector 1x8 pins. See schematics for pinout. If we need to do some hard core debugging this could be useful.

Edit #2 : see my last post for the latest PCB and schematics
Last edited by rpineau on Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Falcon Afterburner - Please Help!

Postby dml » Fri May 31, 2013 8:46 am

rpineau wrote:Here is the new version with the 68040 in the right direction.
I also added 4 decoupling capacitors on the 68060 VDD.
I used a LM1084 for the 3.3v low drop voltage regulator, it requires less component that the LT1084 .. and I can find it easily.
Regards, Rodolphe

Edit : Added a JTAG connector 1x8 pins. See schematics for pinout. If we need to do some hard core debugging this could be useful.


Very nice and fast work :)

Two other details that might be useful...

My AB board doesn't have a proper socket for the CPU - it looks hand-made from packed rows of pin sockets. This means they don't have perfect pitch and it's quite a challenge to swap the CPU - it needs some care and time.

The 68060 seems to be more sensitive to PCLK vs BCLK phase than the 68040 and can refuse to work in place of an 040 if the signal documentation isn't followed. So if everything *looks* right but the 68060 doesn't respond properly, that could need attention. We already know that the AB won't run a 68040 faster than 42MHz and it's not clear exactly what the reason is - so it's possible there are signal 'shortcuts' already on the AB which could add to this problem esp. if the base clock isn't 32MHz. (The 060 datasheet does explain the signal phase/skew accuracy needed so it could be probed to confirm - not that I have equipment good enough for those frequencies :-)

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Re: Falcon Afterburner - Please Help!

Postby rpineau » Fri May 31, 2013 2:41 pm

The 68060 only has 1 clock pin (CLK) which is at the same position as PCLK on the 68040 so there is no other clock on it (so no BCLK and no phase issue there). I'll re-read the 68060 user manual on this part.
One thing : I use the $50 version of Eagle so I'm limited in side and number of layer so I can make a 4 layer board with ground and power in the middle (or even 5 layers in this case as we have 5v VCC and 3.3v VDD). So this could also affect the 68060.

This is all exploratory work so it's clear that the first version might not work. I'll ping Rodolphe (Czuba, the "other" Rodolphe) as we know each other very well (we've been friend for over 25 years ;) ), and I'll see if he still has his old Eagle license as I know he's not using it anymore. With a full license I could make a multi layer board which would help a lot with power and clock issue.

Regards, Rodolphe
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Re: Falcon Afterburner - Please Help!

Postby dml » Fri May 31, 2013 2:47 pm

Ok I may be mis-remembering some of the details - there is some sort of clock phase/skew issue mentioned in the 060 datasheet which can affect like-for-like replacement with 040. If there is only one clock pin it's probably not what I thought.

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Re: Falcon Afterburner - Please Help!

Postby rpineau » Fri May 31, 2013 5:16 pm

So I did more reading in the 68060 doc.
the clock is driver by 2 signals: CLK and CLKEN*
on the adapter we synthesize CLKEN* from BCLK using the 74F157. So for all purpose, CLKEN* is BCLK and CLK is PCLK.
So your remark about the clock phase might still be totally valid because of this.
Chapter 7.4 of the user manual describe the relation between BCLK, CLK and CLKEN* .
In essence, when the 68060 access the bus it will do so using CLKEN* (BCLK) and when it run code in the cache it'll clocked by CLK.
So in our case, the 68060 will access the Falcon at 16MHz and run it its cache at 32MHz (these number are for non accelerated mother board). So basically the same as the AB with a 68040.

Regards, Rodolphe
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Re: Falcon Afterburner - Please Help!

Postby dml » Fri May 31, 2013 5:37 pm

Hi,

There seems to be much historical confusion over PCLK on the 68040... this discussion tries to clear it up, but doesn't really manage it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3AMotorola_68040

However it does sound like the BCLK : PCLK split really is:

16 (EXPANSION+FASTRAM+BCLK) : 32 (PCLK)

...as you describe, and not...

16 (EXPANSION) : 32 (BCLK+FASTRAM) : 64 (PCLK)

...as I once thought, but never got around to checking :-) I did think FastRAM was clocked at 32 because of the figures I measured and the confusion linked above - but the 4x+ performance is probably just down to 32bit + no waits.

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Re: Falcon Afterburner - Please Help!

Postby rpineau » Fri May 31, 2013 5:51 pm

It totally makes sense that the FastRAM (and any bus access) is 16MHz as this is driven by BCLK (as describe in both the 68040 and 68060 manuals), and the internal cycle are clocked by PCLK (CLK for the 68060). so I agree with you it is 16MHz for bus access and 32MHz for internal clocking and not 16/32/64 as some people are saying. The CT60 might use the "QUARTER-SPEED BUS OPERATION" mode to access the Falcon mother board and would indeed run at 16 (CLKEN*)/64 (CLK) and probably access the whole CT60 at CLK speed and only slow down to CLKEN* when accessing the Falcon. In this case the Falcon is seen as a low speed peripheral card for the CT60 (and CT63 and soon to be CTX60).

Regards, Rodolphe
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Re: Falcon Afterburner - Please Help!

Postby rpineau » Sat Jun 01, 2013 8:01 pm

So I took my AB040 out of my Falcon. The CPU is in the same orientation as yours so it's safe to assume it's the case for all AB040 version.
I also printed the non routed version of the adapter board on paper to see how it would fit on the board.
Regards, Rodolphe

AB040.jpg

AB040_nocpu.jpg

040_060_adapter.jpg
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Re: Falcon Afterburner - Please Help!

Postby rpineau » Sun Jun 02, 2013 2:30 am

I bought the Hobbyist version of Eagle so I should soon be able to produce a card with 4 or 5 layers ( 2 signals, 1 VCC, 1 VDD and 1 GND).
I also did some research on the JTAG and there is no real standard for the connector... the existing ones, depending on the manufacturer, have the pin in different places. So I came out with a pinout that doesn't get in the way of the PCB routing.
So unless someone already has a JTAG dongle and want me to put the JTAG pins in a specify layout I'll put them on a 1x8 connector in this order :
1 - VDD
2 - TCK
3 - TMS
4 - JTAG*
5 - TDI
6 - RTST*
7 - GND
8 - TDO

I will post the updated files probably tomorrow (for the JTAG, I won't have time by tomorrow to do a 4/5 layers PCB and I'm not sure people want a 4/5 layer PCB as it's more expensive to make).
Regards, Rodolphe
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Re: Falcon Afterburner - Please Help!

Postby rpineau » Sun Jun 02, 2013 7:18 am

New routed version with the new JTAG connector.
I might send this to the PCB place I'm using to see how it goes and will work on the 4/5 layer version later.
Regards, Rodolphe

Edit : see my last post for the latest PCB and schematics
Last edited by rpineau on Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Falcon Afterburner - Please Help!

Postby rpineau » Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:00 pm

So I started sourcing the component and it looks like the PGA 223 for the 68060 is going to be an issue as the minimum order I can find is 395 and they are $13.74 a piece. So I'm kind of stuck on this and will hold on ordering the PCB until I can source some of these PGA 223 in a reasonable quantity. I made more changes to the board so this is the latest version (may be I should delete the other ones in my previous post).
Regards, Rodolphe


Edit : see my last post for the latest PCB and schematics
Last edited by rpineau on Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Falcon Afterburner - Please Help!

Postby dml » Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:41 pm

Great work - from nothing to a prototype in a few days :)

I'm going to have a quick look and see if anything will spoil the position of the 060 board on my machine. I think it's quite near the IDE bay frame in a MK-X case but it's hard to tell what the clearance will be. I suppose the IDE is easy enough to move and it probably should be swapped for CFlash anyway.

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Re: Falcon Afterburner - Please Help!

Postby rpineau » Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:58 pm

I didn't think about that (specially when you see my Falcon : http://www.rti-zone.org/atari_hard.php) ..
I could move the 68040 a little bit up on the PCB to gain a few millimeters.
What you can do is print the PCB on a piece of paper and see how it fits.
Also, as the PGA 223 is going to be hard to find I might try with rows of single SIP connectors cut to size and properly aligned in place of the PGA (kind of like your AB040 ?).
So I ordered the rest of the component and will order the PCB soon.
Doug : I can order 2, build them and send you one for testing if you want (free of charge).
Regards, Rodolphe
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Re: Falcon Afterburner - Please Help!

Postby dml » Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:49 pm

Hi!

rpineau wrote:Also, as the PGA 223 is going to be hard to find I might try with rows of single SIP connectors cut to size and properly aligned in place of the PGA (kind of like your AB040 ?). So I ordered the rest of the component and will order the PCB soon.


Is the socket format identical to a 68040? I bought a few '040 PGA sockets some years ago in case I wanted to do something with the spare chips. I still have them - maybe 3 or 4. I can send a couple if it will help you.

rpineau wrote:Doug : I can order 2, build them and send you one for testing if you want (free of charge).
Regards, Rodolphe


Cool :-)

I have an LC060 CPU spare which could be used to test. I'd need to be sure the board can't damage the Afterburner itself so the power/ground isolation need checked first. I suppose that's easily done cold with the board fitted and no CPU present?

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Re: Falcon Afterburner - Please Help!

Postby rpineau » Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:21 pm

The 68040 socket is a PGA-179 (179 connected pins). the 68060 socket is a PGA 223 (or 225 with 223 connected pins).
Some of the new pins are needed (connected the the 74FCT157) so a 68040 socket will not work.
As for the test for the power and ground, yes you can test this with everything off and no CPU on... I too would hate damaging my Afterburner (specially that there is no 68030 on my mother board... so the AB040 is my only CPU). I will do the same test before putting my 68060RC on it (it's the 1F43G mask.. so with a few bug but that's fine for debugging).

As a side note, I started mapping the AB040 expansion connector. it has all the data pin, some address pins (the missing one are to be taken on the Falcon connector as they are directly connected to the 68040). Once I'm done doing this I'll post my findings here. So far 3 pins are coming from one of the MACH210 and there are 3 pins I can find where they go (yet).
So if one wants to build a card for the AB040, you need to also use the Falcon connector to get all the pins.


Regards, Rodolphe
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Re: Falcon Afterburner - Please Help!

Postby rpineau » Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:30 am

After a few more fixes and re-routing I finally ordered 2 PCBs to prototype this. I'm attaching the updated version of the Eagle files.
As soon as I get the PCB I'll solder the component, test the power to make sure it's at least good at the electrical level and send one of the 2 PCB to Doug so that we can start the testing and software side of this.
Regards, Rodolphe

Edit : added a image of the routing for those who don't have Eagle.
AB040_060.png
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Re: Falcon Afterburner - Please Help!

Postby rpineau » Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:55 pm

The PCB are almost done, I should get them in a few weeks as they ship from overseas.
In the mean time I have been working on mapping the AB040 connector in the middle of the board.
Here is what I have so far :

Code: Select all

                   - 1  2  - Pin 37 MACH210 #3
Pin 38 MACH210 #3  - 3  4  - Pin 39 MACH210 #3
             AVEC* - 5  6  - TM2
               TM1 - 7  8  - TM0
               TT1 - 9  10 - TT0
              SIZ1 - 11 12 - SIZ0
              TEA* - 13 14 - BG*
              TIP* - 15 16 - TS*
                   - 17 18 -
               A25 - 19 20 - A24
               A27 - 21 22 - A26
               A29 - 23 24 - A28
               A31 - 25 26 - A30
                A3 - 27 28 - A2
                A1 - 29 30 - A0
               GND - 31 32 - GND
 Pin 21 of MC88915 - 33 34 - GND
               VCC - 35 36 - VCC
               D31 - 37 38 - D15
               D30 - 39 40 - D14
               D29 - 41 42 - D13
               D28 - 43 44 - D12
               D23 - 45 46 - D7
               D22 - 47 48 - D6
               D21 - 49 50 - D5
               D20 - 51 52 - D4
               D27 - 53 54 - D11
               D26 - 55 56 - D10
               D25 - 57 58 - D9
               D24 - 59 60 - D8
               D19 - 61 62 - D3
               D18 - 63 64 - D2
               D17 - 65 66 - D1
               D16 - 67 68 - D0
               VCC - 69 70 - VCC
               
A4 - A23 on Falcon connector
IPL0- IPL2 on Falcon connector
R/W* on Falcon connector


AB040_expansion.jpg


As you can see I'm missing pin 1, 17 and 18. I can't trace them to anything so they might just be not connected.
You can also see that to get all the address signal you need to use the Falcon connector (as well as some other signal).
So if someone want to make some expansion card (network card, SRAM card, ..), they would need to use the AB040 70 pin connector plus the 2 Falcon connectors.
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