Apex Media in Hatari freezing on start-up

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dhedberg
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Apex Media in Hatari freezing on start-up

Postby dhedberg » Wed May 09, 2018 9:31 pm

Anyone else having troubles starting Apex Media in Hatari? I've tried multiple versions 2.22, 2.41, and 2.41+. I've tried deleting the config file in the APEXSYS folder. I've tried starting it from different video modes. But still, most of the times (like 19 out 20) it will freeze right away, usually with a black screen (I don't even get to see the interface). It's driving me nuts. I sometimes spend 10 minutes on resets and retries before succeeding.

Any solutions? Ideas? Suggestions?

Thanks,
Daniel
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evil
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Re: Apex Media in Hatari freezing on start-up

Postby evil » Wed May 09, 2018 10:20 pm

I just did a test, and it appears to work without issue. I used this commandline with the release version of Hatari 2.1:

./hatari --machine falcon --dsp emu --cpulevel 3 --cpuclock 32 --fpu 68882 --memsize 14 --avi-fps 50 --window --frameskips 0 --statusbar false --drive-led false --monitor rgb --force-max true --max-width 832 --max-height 626 --bpp 16 --avi-vcodec png --png-level 2 --sound 49170 --gemdos-drive c --harddrive /path/Atari --tos /path/404.img

If I'm not mistaken Apex itself is the one you can download from Dougs homepage.

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Eero Tamminen
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Re: Apex Media in Hatari freezing on start-up

Postby Eero Tamminen » Thu May 10, 2018 6:19 pm

> But still, most of the times (like 19 out 20) it will freeze right away, usually with a black screen (I don't even get to see the interface).

If you use "--trace os_base" option, does Hatari output any messages about what might be going wrong?

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dhedberg
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Re: Apex Media in Hatari freezing on start-up

Postby dhedberg » Thu May 10, 2018 8:05 pm

evil wrote:./hatari --machine falcon --dsp emu --cpulevel 3 --cpuclock 32 --fpu 68882 --memsize 14 --avi-fps 50 --window --frameskips 0 --statusbar false --drive-led false --monitor rgb --force-max true --max-width 832 --max-height 626 --bpp 16 --avi-vcodec png --png-level 2 --sound 49170 --gemdos-drive c --harddrive /path/Atari --tos /path/404.img

Seems like my APEX installations somehow had gotten corrupt. Probably mixed up some files from different versions of APEX in the APEXSYS directory.
Downloaded 2.41 again from Doug's page and it works.

Eero Tamminen wrote:If you use "--trace os_base" option, does Hatari output any messages about what might be going wrong?

Thanks Eero. I never did any debugging as the problem was resolved with the new installation of APEX. Sorry to bother everyone.
Daniel, New Beat - http://newbeat.atari.org

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dhedberg
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Re: Apex Media in Hatari freezing on start-up

Postby dhedberg » Thu May 10, 2018 8:18 pm

Found the problem. Seems like my APEX.CFG at some point had been messed up or was saved in a state that APEX Media has a problem initializing to on start-up. Removing it didn't help for some reason.
Copying over the APEX.CFG file from Doug's zip file to my original installation solved the issue.
Daniel, New Beat - http://newbeat.atari.org

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Re: Apex Media in Hatari freezing on start-up

Postby Desdyn » Thu May 10, 2018 10:09 pm

Hi Daniel.

I saw in your post Doug's download. In all the software boxes I could not find my apex disk, only my manual. Keep us informed how it goes. I am still looking.

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Re: Apex Media in Hatari freezing on start-up

Postby dhedberg » Fri May 11, 2018 7:55 am

Here's the link:
http://www.leonik.net/dml/sec_apex.py

Doug is the creator of APEX media and he decided to release the full version to the public.
Daniel, New Beat - http://newbeat.atari.org

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Re: Apex Media in Hatari freezing on start-up

Postby dhedberg » Mon May 14, 2018 2:25 pm

Seems like things aren't working that great still.

The problem is the switch to 256 colors from inside APEX Media. When I restored the APEX.CFG file it made APEX Media start in TrueColor. Works great, but as soon as I try to switch to 256 colors it will freeze.
This happens almost every time in Hatari, but never happens on real hardware.

I'm running exactly the same setup on real hardware as in Hatari, the same AUTO programs, the same accessories, the same control panel software. I've tried a clean boot, and starting from various video modes. The results are the same. Almost never works to switch from TrueColor to 256 colors inside APEX when on Hatari, but works every time on real hardware. I get nothing useful from --trace os_base during the switch. I'm sure APEX Media is setting the Videl registers directly.

Would be very interested in a solution!

Thanks,
Daniel
Daniel, New Beat - http://newbeat.atari.org

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Eero Tamminen
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Re: Apex Media in Hatari freezing on start-up

Postby Eero Tamminen » Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:51 pm

Here are the steps to reproduce with Hatari Mercurial version:
  • Start APEX media v2.41 with resolution sync fix
  • Click on the monitor icon on the left
  • Click "Accept"
  • Click "256 Colours"
  • Click right button to accept

After this, I see on screen the palette at screen bottom, but rest of the APEX GUI has disappeared / didn't re-appear. Mouse cursor moves fine, but otherwise program doesn't react to any input.

If I use Hatari v2.0, resolution change works fine. Same thing with Hatari v2.1, when using oldUAE instead of the default CPU core.

Resolution change works also with Mercurial version of Hatari when using the default WinUAE CPU core, if:
  • Both cache emulation and prefetch are disabled (--cpu-exact off --compatible off), or
  • MMU emulation is enabled (--mmu on)

OldUAE CPU core doesn't emulate 030 caches, and there were significant changes in the WinUAE CPU core cache emulation after v2.0, including supporting cache emulation when MMU is enabled.

I don't see any complaints about MMU instructions when APEX media is run without it, so issue isn't its MMU usage. When I profile resolution change, DSP runs through 75 addresses, so there's some DSP code executed. When I profile CPU after things get stuck, >99% of instructions are for polling DSP interrupt status register.

Because disabling cycle exact mode (i.e. cache emulation) isn't enough, but one needs to disable also prefetch, and there's DSP involved, one could already guess that it's a timing issue between CPU & DSP, and the last item verifies that.

There are quite a few programs that have issues with that, and when relative CPU & DSP speeds change a bit, "random" programs can start working, and others stop working. :-/

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dhedberg
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Re: Apex Media in Hatari freezing on start-up

Postby dhedberg » Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:13 pm

Wow! Thank you very much for taking your time to analyze this! Your conclusion makes sense and your suggestions do indeed help! I can live with a specific Hatari configuration for APEX Media! Thanks Eero!
Daniel, New Beat - http://newbeat.atari.org


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