End of EasyMINT?

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End of EasyMINT?

Postby Dal » Tue Aug 04, 2015 6:27 am

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Re: End of EasyMINT?

Postby Faucon2001 » Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:22 am

It looks so.
It's sad indeed. :(
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Re: End of EasyMINT?

Postby vido » Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:36 am

As he wrote there is bad response/support to what he done and we maybe should tell him how much it means to us (community) EasyMiNT and thank him for the work he put in it. Maybe he would change his mind? This is really very important project, but still not that much often used as when you install it once on the computer then it stays there for years. But for new installs it is very important.
For instance when new serie of the FireBees will be out most users who would like to use MiNT on it would use EasyMiNT to install it and then will stay there for a long time ...

Well ... I suggest to give him encouraging mail to continue with the project. If he wont, he deserves big thank you for what he done till now!

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Re: End of EasyMINT?

Postby frank.lukas » Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:46 am

... perhaps the project can someone take over and carry on with it.

It is writen in GFA Basic I think.

Knowledge in UNIX is also good ...
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Re: End of EasyMINT?

Postby joska » Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:54 am

As he said, rpm and the SpareMiNT packages hasn't been worked on for years. So there is actually not much to update. Firebee support is nice, but still depends on 10-15 year old 68k packages. Not very motivating I think.
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Re: End of EasyMINT?

Postby lp » Tue Aug 04, 2015 9:08 am

Yes, it is written in GFA. If he is going to end support as he says, I would hope the source code is available. Rest assured GFABASIC itself will still be supported, so if someone would take on the project, they have my full support.

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Re: End of EasyMINT?

Postby AtariZoll » Tue Aug 04, 2015 9:23 am

Better feedback is something what many developers missing, missed.
I'm surprised that it was written in GFA Basic. Thought that C is standard language for some Unix-like OS.
Negative feedback has usually positive effect.

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Re: End of EasyMINT?

Postby jvas » Tue Aug 04, 2015 9:27 am

AtariZoll wrote:Better feedback is something what many developers missing, missed.
I'm surprised that it was written in GFA Basic. Thought that C is standard language for some Unix-like OS.


I think the installer only, what is written in GFA....

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Re: End of EasyMINT?

Postby frank.lukas » Tue Aug 04, 2015 9:53 am

The Installer is written in Basic.

RPMs are a great thing,, I think, when these disappear it is a great loss !
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Re: End of EasyMINT?

Postby wongck » Tue Aug 04, 2015 10:57 am

Sad.... another one bites the dust.
An easy installer will certainly make more users come towards Mint.
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Re: End of EasyMINT?

Postby joska » Tue Aug 04, 2015 11:01 am

wongck wrote:An easy installer will certainly make more users come towards Mint.


It will still be available. I just hope he will make the sources for the installer available.

Or maybe it's time for someone else to make something new. EasyMiNT is based on SpareMiNT which hasn't seen any real updates for many years.
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Re: End of EasyMINT?

Postby AtariZoll » Tue Aug 04, 2015 11:46 am

I'm not sure that we really need some complex OS like Mint for old, low performance computers. At least not further development of it, in year 2015 .
No wonder that it is not developed for many years. I would not worry about RPMs. Someone from here will make them available at demand certainly.
Installer may be different thing, because it is certainly much-much less code. But I don't see any contact link there.
Not really topic, but I find as more useful diverse improvements of TOS, or SW for CosmosEx, modern peripherals.
Firebee may be different case, but I really don't know how well TOS, Mint works on it. Most likely patching parts of code is necessary.
Negative feedback has usually positive effect.

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Re: End of EasyMINT?

Postby jvas » Tue Aug 04, 2015 11:51 am

AtariZoll wrote:I'm not sure that we really need some complex OS like Mint for old, low performance computers. At least not further development of it, in year 2015 .
No wonder that it is not developed for many years. I would not worry about RPMs. Someone from here will make them available at demand certainly.
Installer may be different thing, because it is certainly much-much less code. But I don't see any contact link there.
Not really topic, but I find as more useful diverse improvements of TOS, or SW for CosmosEx, modern peripherals.
Firebee may be different case, but I really don't know how well TOS, Mint works on it. Most likely patching parts of code is necessary.


Works fine on the Firebee/Aranym. And don't forget the CT60 (CT60e is coming)/TT ...
There is a 020 booster for the ST in the pipeline too...

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Re: End of EasyMINT?

Postby frank.lukas » Tue Aug 04, 2015 12:19 pm

EasyMiNT/SpareMiNT is a complete UNIX substructure for TOS. I do not know whether Gentoo can replace SpareMiNT, I don´t think so ...

UNIX runs with all startup scripts and the Network and all other things be configured via the /etc folder over a ext2 partition. So fully UNIX like.

EasyMiNT run very well on my Atari Mega ST4 with a MonSTer Card an 8MB of Fastram. It is slow but working well.
On a Atari TT SpareMiNT is perfect.
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Re: End of EasyMINT?

Postby joska » Tue Aug 04, 2015 12:29 pm

AtariZoll wrote:I'm not sure that we really need some complex OS like Mint for old, low performance computers.


Replace "we" with "I" and your sentence makes sense.
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Re: End of EasyMINT?

Postby fmh » Tue Aug 04, 2015 12:45 pm

The EasyMiNT installer was very nice and I would even say needed for me to get a working MiNT setup running. Without it I am sure there would be far fewer MiNT users today.

I am one who appreciated the effort maanke put into this over the years.
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Re: End of EasyMINT?

Postby alanh » Tue Aug 04, 2015 2:57 pm

If it was open source, then I'd probably make some time in the future to merge it with a Gentoo style distro.
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Re: End of EasyMINT?

Postby AtariZoll » Tue Aug 04, 2015 2:58 pm

joska wrote:
AtariZoll wrote:I'm not sure that we really need some complex OS like Mint for old, low performance computers.


Replace "we" with "I" and your sentence makes sense.


That "we" means not all Atari users :D I'm not alone certainly, so can talk in multiple :mrgreen: But joke aside, don't you think that we have here a lot of wish threads, lists, while only few people works on new SW, or updates. I was always for reasonable projects, which may be interesting for bigger count of people. Doing some OS, even if it is only conversion for specific config is lot more work than doing some logic/puzzle or adventure game.
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Re: End of EasyMINT?

Postby joska » Tue Aug 04, 2015 3:04 pm

AtariZoll wrote:I was always for reasonable projects, which may be interesting for bigger count of people


So why stick with Atari and not PC? ;)
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Re: End of EasyMINT?

Postby joska » Tue Aug 04, 2015 3:14 pm

alanh wrote:If it was open source, then I'd probably make some time in the future to merge it with a Gentoo style distro.


I have installed EasyMiNT twice, both in 2007, so I don't remember much of the install process. But if somebody (you?) wants to make a complete Gentoo based distro, then why not base it on something like VanillaMiNT? It's very easy install and give you instant networking (DHCP). Then reboot and run a Gentoo install script that downloads and install Gentoo.

I'm not a big fan of the huge unix-like setups on my Ataris, which is why I made VanillaMiNT. I really don't have the interest or skills to create a big unix-distro. But if somebody wants some help with the GEM-side of things I could be of assistance.
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Re: End of EasyMINT?

Postby alanh » Tue Aug 04, 2015 3:22 pm

Ah yes, VanillaMiNT should get more press.
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Re: End of EasyMINT?

Postby AtariZoll » Tue Aug 04, 2015 3:51 pm

joska wrote:
AtariZoll wrote:I was always for reasonable projects, which may be interesting for bigger count of people


So why stick with Atari and not PC? ;)


Must it be one or another ? What about using both, or even better using them together ?
As I told already once here, main problem with oldies is screen in most cases. Once you get used on some high-res, you don't want to do some editing, coding, drawing and similar on low res.
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Re: End of EasyMINT?

Postby joska » Tue Aug 04, 2015 4:40 pm

AtariZoll wrote:Must it be one or another ? What about using both, or even better using them together ?


Exactly. Using and/or developing for MiNT doesn't exclude other things. I've been doing a lot of assembler coding for ST and STE the last few months. I edit and compile on my Falcon/AB/Eclipse which is running MiNT+XaAES, and test on the ST/STE. The two Ataris are connected with PARCP. If I program outside my playroom I use Hatari on my laptop.

AtariZoll wrote:Once you get used on some high-res, you don't want to do some editing, coding, drawing and similar on low res.


Once you get used to multitasking and networking you don't want to do some editing or compiling under plain TOS ;)
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Re: End of EasyMINT?

Postby ctirad » Tue Aug 04, 2015 7:57 pm

I'm big fan of gentoo, however on TOS machines, even the 060 and Aranym, it is totally unusable. Without memory protection enabled one cannot perform the emerge --sync, because it sooner or later dies due to memory fragmentation. Even simple "emerge" of the binanry package does take ages on 060 and plenty of RAM.

We need something lightweight. Even more lightweight then RPM or DEB. An IPK/OPK used in OpenWRT looks suitable.

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Re: End of EasyMINT?

Postby joska » Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:33 pm

ctirad wrote:I'm big fan of gentoo, however on TOS machines, even the 060 and Aranym, it is totally unusable. Without memory protection enabled one cannot perform the emerge --sync, because it sooner or later dies due to memory fragmentation. Even simple "emerge" of the binanry package does take ages on 060 and plenty of RAM.


Yes, TOS and MiNT is not good at dealing with the unix way of solving problem. This usually means running several "small" programs and pipe information from one program to the next. With MiNT and MagiC this quickly leads to memory fragmentation. Also, unix apps can require incredible amounts of RAM under MiNT/MagiC/TOS due to the very different way of handling memory in unix (and basically every modern OS) and the DOS-based TOS/MiNT/MagiC, and the frequent loading/unloading of "small" binaries isn't very efficient with our slow mass storage. Portage/emerge is a rather extreme example though, doesn't it actually compile the packages from source when installing? That means running gcc, which IMO is unusable on any kind of Atari now due to it's massive size and it's appetite for RAM.

Personally I find MiNT+XaAES to be an excellent way of running GEM-stuff under multitasking, and it's also a lot easier to develop software for MiNT than TOS as it offers a lot more functionality. But I'm not very fond of much of the ported unix stuff. It's just too resource hungry and unneccessary complex (see the startup sequence in EasyMiNT/SpareMiNT...) for my needs. But that's me, and luckily for me MiNT doesn't need any of it. Others might enjoy this kind of stuff - after all this is just a hobby and I understand that tinkering with unix can be fun too.
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