zDesk

Hardware, coding, music, graphic and various applications

Moderators: Mug UK, [ProToS], lp, moondog/.tSCc., Moderator Team

ldv-01
Atari maniac
Atari maniac
Posts: 96
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:14 pm
Location: Italy

Re: zDesk

Postby ldv-01 » Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:24 pm

Great ! And what about the "eye candy" department (namely icons) ?

ldv

Zorro
Atariator
Atariator
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:55 pm

Re: zDesk

Postby Zorro » Sat Mar 09, 2013 7:21 pm

ldv-01 wrote:Great ! And what about the "eye candy" department (namely icons) ?

ldv


As you can see on the first video, I have spent a fair bit of time working on the icons.

Well, to be honest, a few are completely "stolen" from deviant art( like the trashcan) others are modified version of existing icons but many of these ones have been drawn "by hand".

So, I want to keep this set. However, If you want to complete the icon's list or change the 2 or 3 icons "stolen", you are welcome. Especially to add well known applications' icons :wink:

User avatar
shoggoth
Nature
Nature
Posts: 951
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 9:21 am
Location: Halmstad, Sweden
Contact:

Re: zDesk

Postby shoggoth » Sat Mar 09, 2013 8:24 pm

It seems you focused quite a lot on the stuff usually lacking in Atari application; ergonomics, response to user interaction. Complete this application and we have a major contribution to the platform. I love Thing, but I really appreciate having a choice.

I've browsed the zDesk sources, and I like your coding style and have great confidence in the way you write your stuff. I'm looking forward to a release where I can actually start applications :)

If there's a possibility to use bitmaps for stuff (window backgrounds, desktop backgrounds), I wouldn't mind if you added the possibility to allocate the memory for those bitmaps in video RAM on supported hardware using ct60_vmalloc() (this call should work equally well on both the SuperVidel and Radeon/CTPCI). It means blits will be carried out from vram<>vram rather than some other way, and should hence be a bit faster. Just be sure to free that memory (also using ct60_vmalloc()) when the application finishes, because it isn't freed by the OS when the process terminates (ct60_vmalloc() is an XBIOS extension and is untouched by FreeMiNT etc. Personally I'd like to see an extension to Mxalloc() instead, but so far it seems I'm the only one who appreciate the need for that).
Ain't no space like PeP-space.

OL
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 478
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 6:59 am
Contact:

Re: zDesk

Postby OL » Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:47 am

shoggoth wrote:It seems you focused quite a lot on the stuff usually lacking in Atari application; ergonomics, response to user interaction. Complete this application and we have a major contribution to the platform. I love Thing, but I really appreciate having a choice.

I've browsed the zDesk sources, and I like your coding style and have great confidence in the way you write your stuff. I'm looking forward to a release where I can actually start applications :)

If there's a possibility to use bitmaps for stuff (window backgrounds, desktop backgrounds), I wouldn't mind if you added the possibility to allocate the memory for those bitmaps in video RAM on supported hardware using ct60_vmalloc() (this call should work equally well on both the SuperVidel and Radeon/CTPCI). It means blits will be carried out from vram<>vram rather than some other way, and should hence be a bit faster. Just be sure to free that memory (also using ct60_vmalloc()) when the application finishes, because it isn't freed by the OS when the process terminates (ct60_vmalloc() is an XBIOS extension and is untouched by FreeMiNT etc. Personally I'd like to see an extension to Mxalloc() instead, but so far it seems I'm the only one who appreciate the need for that).


I send to Zorro my routine using it with good binding of function because it was a little bit tricky to work when I include it in MyAES

OL
OL

ldv-01
Atari maniac
Atari maniac
Posts: 96
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:14 pm
Location: Italy

Re: zDesk

Postby ldv-01 » Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:20 pm

Zorro wrote:
ldv-01 wrote:Great ! And what about the "eye candy" department (namely icons) ?

ldv


As you can see on the first video, I have spent a fair bit of time working on the icons.

Well, to be honest, a few are completely "stolen" from deviant art( like the trashcan) others are modified version of existing icons but many of these ones have been drawn "by hand".

So, I want to keep this set. However, If you want to complete the icon's list or change the 2 or 3 icons "stolen", you are welcome. Especially to add well known applications' icons :wink:


Thank you for the reply. So Icons will reside in the zDesk main resource file and will be in the standard 2/16/256 Atari format.

May be this is more an AES related question. Any plans to support True Color icons or at least with a 256 color optimized (adaptive) palette ?

ldv

OL
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 478
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 6:59 am
Contact:

Re: zDesk

Postby OL » Sun Mar 10, 2013 5:33 pm

ldv-01 wrote:
Zorro wrote:
ldv-01 wrote:Great ! And what about the "eye candy" department (namely icons) ?

ldv


As you can see on the first video, I have spent a fair bit of time working on the icons.

Well, to be honest, a few are completely "stolen" from deviant art( like the trashcan) others are modified version of existing icons but many of these ones have been drawn "by hand".

So, I want to keep this set. However, If you want to complete the icon's list or change the 2 or 3 icons "stolen", you are welcome. Especially to add well known applications' icons :wink:


Thank you for the reply. So Icons will reside in the zDesk main resource file and will be in the standard 2/16/256 Atari format.

May be this is more an AES related question. Any plans to support True Color icons or at least with a 256 color optimized (adaptive) palette ?

ldv



This will be perhaps my job, MyAES support true color icon, the problem there is no tools for save RSC file with true color icons, I'm currently trying to do it but it's not easy and crash at this time. If it work I will try this RSC file under XaAES, probably it will not recognize the true color icon but I hope it not crash and will take the 256 color version, if it crash I will do a patch in XaAES.
OL
OL

Zorro
Atariator
Atariator
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:55 pm

Re: zDesk

Postby Zorro » Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:02 pm

shoggoth wrote:It seems you focused quite a lot on the stuff usually lacking in Atari application; ergonomics, response to user interaction. Complete this application and we have a major contribution to the platform. I love Thing, but I really appreciate having a choice.

I've browsed the zDesk sources, and I like your coding style and have great confidence in the way you write your stuff. I'm looking forward to a release where I can actually start applications :)


Thanks for you comment :wink:


shoggoth wrote:If there's a possibility to use bitmaps for stuff (window backgrounds, desktop backgrounds), I wouldn't mind if you added the possibility to allocate the memory for those bitmaps in video RAM on supported hardware using ct60_vmalloc()


Yes I will do that.

I have just 4 questions:

1) I need to know if, like Malloc(), there is risks of memory fragmentation if I use this function for every MFDBs( there will be a lot).

2) Do you have a way of knowing if a Radeon is on system?( cookie, etc...)
A clean and system friendly way, of course.

3) Is this function thread safe?

4) I think yes but to be sure: The memory reserved si global? Roughly speaking, can I send the memory pointer to another thread or process?

Zorro
Atariator
Atariator
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:55 pm

Re: zDesk

Postby Zorro » Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:34 pm

ldv-01 wrote:Thank you for the reply. So Icons will reside in the zDesk main resource file


No, I think that the icons will be in a separate ressource file.

ldv-01 wrote:and will be in the standard 2/16/256 Atari format.


Yes and no.

The icon will be in the standard format but Olivier is working on MyAES to support the TC icons in the rsc files.

ldv-01 wrote:Any plans to support True Color icons or at least with a 256 color optimized (adaptive) palette ?


As long as XAAES doesn't support that, only for MyAES.

But even with a limited palette, good looking icons can be done :wink:

Image

red point: Icons "stolen" from the web.
green point: same that the red point but substantially modified.

The others ones are originals( or almost).

The icons with the red point need to be replaced. if there are volunteers....

User avatar
shoggoth
Nature
Nature
Posts: 951
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 9:21 am
Location: Halmstad, Sweden
Contact:

Re: zDesk

Postby shoggoth » Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:26 am

Zorro wrote:I have just 4 questions:1) I need to know if, like Malloc(), there is risks of memory fragmentation if I use this function for every MFDBs( there will be a lot).


Yes there is. ct60_vmalloc() is comparable to Malloc() except that memory isn't freed automatically on process termination.

2) Do you have a way of knowing if a Radeon is on system?( cookie, etc...)
A clean and system friendly way, of course.


I don't know how to detect the Radeon, but the SuperVidel is detected by checking for th "SupV"-cookie. If it's present, you have a SuperVidel, and ct60_vmalloc() is available.

3) Is this function thread safe?

It's just like any other XBIOS function. AFAIK it should be thread safe (since the kernel is supposed to single-task in supervisor mode, and the trap handler executes in supervisor).

... make sure to get a 2nd opinion on this however, since this is just me speculating.

4) I think yes but to be sure: The memory reserved si global? Roughly speaking, can I send the memory pointer to another thread or process?


Yes. The kernel has no concept of video RAM at all, since this is a low level thing and not part of GEMDOS. However, I guess someone could in the future implement some extra flags in Mxalloc() to allow allocation of video ram.
Ain't no space like PeP-space.

User avatar
wongck
Ultimate Atarian
Ultimate Atarian
Posts: 12496
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 2:09 pm
Location: Far East
Contact:

Re: zDesk

Postby wongck » Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:17 am

shoggoth wrote:
2) Do you have a way of knowing if a Radeon is on system?( cookie, etc...)
A clean and system friendly way, of course.


I don't know how to detect the Radeon, but the SuperVidel is detected by checking for th "SupV"-cookie. If it's present, you have a SuperVidel, and ct60_vmalloc() is available.


I did a small program that automatically disable/enable the NVDI driver SYS files based on whether the ATI Radeon is running or not.
The Radeon detection routine I used is as attached here.
ati.zip

It needs to have PCI Bios library. It's pretty simple, jsut check the PCI IDs.
It seems to work well on my CT63/CTPCI but I am the only user of this program (it's not release to the community).

I removed most of the code of my program leaving only the detection code only.
(mainly to avoid you having to use a bucket while looking at it :oops: )
I hope I did not over-remove the codes. plus I did it like 2-3 years ago, so I cannot remember every line.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
My Stuff: FB/Falcon CT63/CTPCI+ATI+RTL8139+USB 512MB 30GB HDD CF HxC_SD/ TT030 68882 4+32MB 520MB Nova/ 520STFM 4MB Tos206 SCSI
Shared SCSI Bus:ScsiLink ethernet, 9GB HDD,SD-reader @ http://phsw.atari.org
My Atari stuff for sale - click here for list

Zorro
Atariator
Atariator
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:55 pm

Re: zDesk

Postby Zorro » Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:11 pm

shoggoth wrote:...Yes. The kernel has no concept of video RAM at all, since this is a low level thing and not part of GEMDOS. However, I guess someone could in the future implement some extra flags in Mxalloc() to allow allocation of video ram.


Thanks you for your answers.

If I need more informations, I will contact Didier.

Zorro
Atariator
Atariator
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:55 pm

Re: zDesk

Postby Zorro » Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:15 pm

wongck wrote:...
I removed most of the code of my program leaving only the detection code only.
(mainly to avoid you having to use a bucket while looking at it :oops: )
I hope I did not over-remove the codes. plus I did it like 2-3 years ago, so I cannot remember every line.


Thanks for the code sample, I will look inside.

Zorro
Atariator
Atariator
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:55 pm

Re: zDesk

Postby Zorro » Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:01 pm

New video added.

Dal
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 4162
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:31 am
Location: Cheltenham, UK
Contact:

Re: zDesk

Postby Dal » Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:17 pm

It's gorgeous. :)
Mega"SST" 12, MegaSTE, STE: Desktopper case, IDE interface, UltraSatan (8GB + 512Mb) + HXC floppy emulator. Plus some STE's/STFM's

vido
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 618
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:39 pm

Re: zDesk

Postby vido » Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:52 pm

This is jut great!!!
Cant wait to use it on my FireBee ... :)

User avatar
wongck
Ultimate Atarian
Ultimate Atarian
Posts: 12496
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 2:09 pm
Location: Far East
Contact:

Re: zDesk

Postby wongck » Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:12 pm

Looking great !!! :thumbs:
Can't wait to see it on my Atari.
My Stuff: FB/Falcon CT63/CTPCI+ATI+RTL8139+USB 512MB 30GB HDD CF HxC_SD/ TT030 68882 4+32MB 520MB Nova/ 520STFM 4MB Tos206 SCSI
Shared SCSI Bus:ScsiLink ethernet, 9GB HDD,SD-reader @ http://phsw.atari.org
My Atari stuff for sale - click here for list

User avatar
jvas
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 448
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2005 4:30 pm
Location: Budapest, Hungary
Contact:

Re: zDesk

Postby jvas » Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:36 pm

Zorro wrote:New video added.


Super!
For those, who are dumbs like me, the video is added to the first post ...

User avatar
rudis
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 158
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:41 am

Re: zDesk

Postby rudis » Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:38 pm

gorgeous :o

User avatar
CiH
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1128
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2004 4:34 pm
Location: Middle Earth (Npton) UK
Contact:

Re: zDesk

Postby CiH » Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:46 pm

Yep, got my attention :cheers:

Hopefully the issue with some incompatible or snowed out animated gifs on zView will be fixed too.
"Where teh feck is teh Hash key on this Mac?!"

lschafroth
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 176
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: zDesk

Postby lschafroth » Wed Mar 27, 2013 7:12 pm

All I can say is WOW.

User avatar
paul92706
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1403
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:28 am
Location: Orange, CA

Re: zDesk

Postby paul92706 » Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:24 pm

oh wow!!!! so cool!!
Atari Falcon CT60/CTPCI 14MB+ 512mb ATI9250 + NetUSBee
Atari Falcon030 CF 4gb + NetUSBee+ 14MB Ram
Atari TT030 2meg STRAM/16meg TTRAM + Nova Adaptor +Maxtor SCSI HD + DaynaPort Pocket SCSI

Zorro
Atariator
Atariator
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:55 pm

Re: zDesk

Postby Zorro » Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:27 pm

I'm glad to read your comments so, first of all, thank you all for that :wink:

CiH: About zView.

As I have already said to Miro - the skillful coder who has maintained zView during my absence - this application is quite outdated, so for me, the current version is dead.

zDesk will owns an image browser and technically, it will be much much better, by far, that zview.

For that reason, zView "2" needs to be redone from scratch:
Remove the image browser, add image operations( crop, resize, contrast, luminosity, etc..) and concentrate the efforts on the speed, the PDF reader and above all, the "lightness"( I don't want a white elephant as is currently the case).

But one thing at a time. For the moment, all my spare time is dedicated to zDesk.

User avatar
jfl
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 867
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:55 pm
Location: Liège, Belgium
Contact:

Re: zDesk

Postby jfl » Wed Mar 27, 2013 8:47 pm

I won't repeat what everybody said above since I agree with them all. I will only add this: the animated busy bee within the window tabs? Pure brilliance. I'm speechless. Such a cool idea. Who would have thought of that? Well, you have. And that's quite something. I bow before the master.
Jean-François
GEMDict – GEMClip

User avatar
calimero
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 2249
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2005 10:01 am
Location: STara Pazova, Serbia
Contact:

Re: zDesk

Postby calimero » Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:00 am

really crazy poo !!! :) :) :)

http://www.youtube.com/user/zorro270?feature=watch

I LOVE IT! :)

especially that it is inspired with Mac OS X:
- there is no "OK" or other confirmation button in "information dialog"
- toolbar menus
- resize thumbs slider in bottom of window... very nice!

btw
- what library/framework do you use for programming zdesk?
- how CPU usage almost never jump when you resizing or drag windows (but only when you add items to toolbar)?? coz of Aranym?
- what OS (AES) do you use?
- so zDesk is multithreaded (every windows will keep doing it's work, like creating thumbnails)?
- just please, please, please, please keep in mind keyboard shortcuts! : made it possible to browse thorough file system and to copy/move files with keyboard only!

zDesk is single most astonishing piece of software for Atari! :) hope we will add soon zDesk in voting pool at:

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=24624

:)
using Atari since 1986.http://wet.atari.orghttp://milan.kovac.cc/atari/software/ ・ Atari Falcon030/CT63/SV ・ Atari STe ・ Atari Mega4/MegaFile30/SM124 ・ Amiga 1200/PPC ・ Amiga 500 ・ C64 ・ ZX Spectrum ・ RPi ・ MagiC! ・ MiNT 1.18 ・ OS X

Zorro
Atariator
Atariator
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:55 pm

Re: zDesk

Postby Zorro » Thu Mar 28, 2013 6:27 pm

calimero wrote:- what library/framework do you use for programming zdesk?

I don't use any library other than the MiNTLIB/GEMLIB.


calimero wrote:- how CPU usage almost never jump when you resizing or drag windows (but only when you add items to toolbar)?? coz of Aranym?

There is a bug in zTask. Its CPU monitor stops to work after a while( another thing on my to-do list).

And I use Aranym in full MMU mode and without JIT, so the speed is "only" close to a CT60@80mhz.


calimero wrote:- what OS (AES) do you use?

I use a basic MiNT/XAAES configuration.


calimero wrote:- so zDesk is multithreaded (every windows will keep doing it's work, like creating thumbnails)?

Currently, only the image related functions are on another thread/process.
But when the first version of zDesk will be released, no action will be blocking and even with several operations at the same time, the desktop should be smooth.


calimero wrote:- just please, please, please, please keep in mind keyboard shortcuts! : made it possible to browse thorough file system and to copy/move files with keyboard only!

Of course :thumbs:

And thank you all again for your comments, I will try not to disappoint you :wink:


Social Media

     

Return to “Professionals”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: belzrebuth, tat and 2 guests