Where to start with Mint?

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Dark Willow
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Where to start with Mint?

Postby Dark Willow » Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:07 pm

Looking to play with Mint, probably not going to jump into it (at least not yet), but having DHCP might be worth it. Are there any dedicated mint forums out there, or a comprehensive starters guide? I know EasyMint is an easy way to go but I'd prefer a very lightweight implementation, and get the idea that EasyMint just goes the whole hog.

I bascially just want TeraDesk, Geneva as the AES and the absolute minimum needed to drive Mintnet.

Any good places to start, guides, walk-throughs etc?
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Re: Where to start with Mint?

Postby Dal » Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:14 pm

Follow WongCK's guide. It goes through every step and gives a good understanding of how stuff hangs together. Easymint is ok, but you learn nothing much from an Easymint installation IMHO.
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Re: Where to start with Mint?

Postby wongck » Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:32 pm

The tutorial is using Mint 1.16 which was the release version when it was done.
The stable release today is v1.17. Just keep that in mind, especially when you're editing the config files.
Been wanting to update the tutorial....
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Re: Where to start with Mint?

Postby Omikronman » Wed Nov 21, 2012 2:44 pm

The easiest way to start with Mint will probably be to install the origignal Atari Multi TOS floppy disks where Mint has been included. :)

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Re: Where to start with Mint?

Postby Dark Willow » Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:14 pm

Omikronman wrote:The easiest way to start with Mint will probably be to install the origignal Atari Multi TOS floppy disks where Mint has been included. :)


I was thinking about MultiTOS, as I would prefer to use AES 4.x to Geneva (even if it means a bit of a speed penalty), but AFAIK MintNet needs Mint 1.12 and and Ext2 file system to run, so I'm not sure if it'll work?
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Re: Where to start with Mint?

Postby calimero » Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:49 pm

wongck wrote:The tutorial is using Mint 1.16 which was the release version when it was done.
The stable release today is v1.17. Just keep that in mind, especially when you're editing the config files.
Been wanting to update the tutorial....

Than do it :D

I will install MiNT these days also and I wont use easymint :)
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Re: Where to start with Mint?

Postby joska » Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:03 pm

What kind of hardware do you want to run MiNT on? Forget 68000-machines if you want something usable. A Falcon or TT with atleast 4Mb should be considered the minimum IMO.

Also, you don't want to run Geneva on top of MiNT, it's not stable enough to be usable. Use XaAES or MyAES.

If you want to install MiNT from scratch it goes like this (assuming a plain Falcon with 4 or 14Mb and a harddrive):

  • Disable *everything* except nvdi.prg in the AUTO-folder. And I mean everything.
  • Go to http://www.freemint.org/builds/freemint and download one of the archives. The 1.17 archive is the safest bet, as the two other should be considered experimental.
  • Find some way to unpack this tar.bz2 archive to a directory on your Falcon's harddrive.
  • Now it's time to start installing.
    • Copy mint030.prg to your autofolder.
    • Copy the "mint" folder to the root of your boot-drive (C usually).
    • Open mint.cnf and xaaes.cnf in your favorite text-editor. At the very least you need to uncomment the line "#GEM=u:/c/mint/xaaes/xaloader.prg", this will tell MiNT to boot into XaAES. These files are well commented and should be straightforward to edit if needed. You might want to specify which desktop to use in xaaes.cnf too.
    • In xaaes.cnf: Select a suitable video-mode. Important!
    • Use the desktop or your favorite tool to sort the auto-folder so NVDI runs before MiNT.
    • Reboot and cross your fingers :) MiNT should now boot and work. Now it's time to start reading and tweaking the setup to your needs. You can find a lot of information on http://wiki.sparemint.org.

I have not described how to set up networking or USB, or use different filesystems than the plain TOS FAT16.
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Re: Where to start with Mint?

Postby lp » Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:43 pm

I'm running MiNT+Thing+N.AES with plain TOS partitions and I'm able to use mint-net. I figured out how to do this using the firebee software archive. You do not need a shell or other file systems. Not saying that stuff is bad, but its not really needed if all you just want is basic internet/networking.

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Re: Where to start with Mint?

Postby joska » Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:54 pm

Correct, for simple networking you only need three files and these can be stored on FAT 8+3 partitions.
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Re: Where to start with Mint?

Postby Dark Willow » Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:48 pm

lp wrote:I'm running MiNT+Thing+N.AES with plain TOS partitions and I'm able to use mint-net. I figured out how to do this using the firebee software archive. You do not need a shell or other file systems. Not saying that stuff is bad, but its not really needed if all you just want is basic internet/networking.


That sounds great. I'm really keen to avoid a *nix file system and shells if I can avoid it. All I really want mintnet to do is drive an Ethernec box hooked up to my uni resnet which uses DHCP (no routers allowed). If it weren't for that I'd be happy with plain TOS and STING - though having Netsurf would be a bonus, but not ZOMG I MUST HAVS IT NAO!!!! type important.

Anything you can remember on how you set it up would be greatly appreciated :mrgreen:

As for the system, it'll be going onto a TT (10/16mb ST/TT RAM, 240mb HD on the internal SCSI, Ethernec on the ROM port) so the lightest, simplest most no frills AES solution possible would be best.
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Re: Where to start with Mint?

Postby lp » Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:02 pm

You might want to get the basic OS up and running as joska has described. Then when that is working solid download the firebee software archive and study the mint config file.

I had a full blown mint-net/unix shell blah blah... system on my hades for many years. However, went it died I decided it was a bit to much for my TT. That setup I described above is actually on my TT. My TT has a Hydra (EtherNEC clone).

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Re: Where to start with Mint?

Postby wongck » Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:31 pm

Dark Willow wrote:That sounds great. I'm really keen to avoid a *nix file system and shells if I can avoid it. All I really want mintnet to do is drive an Ethernec box hooked up to my uni resnet which uses DHCP (no routers allowed). If it weren't for that I'd be happy with plain TOS and STING - though having Netsurf would be a bonus, but not ZOMG I MUST HAVS IT NAO!!!! type important.


That would just be the tutorial page 1 on my website. For network would be tutorial page 5.
Reading time about 10 mins at most.... done.

Or just follow what Joska wrote in his post above. Reading time 1 min... done.

Dark Willow wrote:Anything you can remember on how you set it up would be greatly appreciated


Remember lots... but by far the easiest that I came across would be just download uMINT and unZIP it to your HD. Replace the MINT.PRG and XAEAS kernal with 030 versions. and REBOOT.
It already have network on it but it does not use DHCP yet.... so you can ignore that part first....
At least you have MINT running without any configuration and without reading anything in details.
Half the war won, may be even more like 90% !!

Mind you, but I seen people saying that doing just this is already difficult.... well you never know.

Dark Willow wrote:As for the system, it'll be going onto a TT (10/16mb ST/TT RAM, 240mb HD on the internal SCSI, Ethernec on the ROM port) so the lightest, simplest most no frills AES solution possible would be best.

Sorry to burst your bubble... but Netsurf was written for FireBee in mind. On my CT63, it is still usable. On a stock TT, the experience is not there.
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Re: Where to start with Mint?

Postby Dark Willow » Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:46 pm

Thanks to all for the info. I'll have a play with it over the weekend and see how it goes :)
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Re: Where to start with Mint?

Postby Zogging Hell » Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:45 am

joska wrote:[*] Find some way to unpack this tar.bz2 archive to a directory on your Falcon's harddrive.


Would be nice if Mint could be supplied in a zip archive as well, is there even a shell for the Atari for the two ttp programs you need(ed) to extract something from this kind of archive. It's not exactly a friendly start is it? :)

Is there actually a reason why it's archived in this format (other than greater/ more efficient compression)?
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Re: Where to start with Mint?

Postby wongck » Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:59 am

Zogging Hell wrote:Would be nice if Mint could be supplied in a zip archive as well, is there even a shell for the Atari for the two ttp programs you need(ed) to extract something from this kind of archive. It's not exactly a friendly start is it? :)


Ha ha... Exactly.
You need the tools in Mint to un-archive Mint packages but you have no Mint environment yet..... :roll:
It's a chicken and egg problem, as written in my tutorial back in 2009. Luckily a simple solution was provided in it.
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Re: Where to start with Mint?

Postby joska » Thu Nov 22, 2012 7:46 am

The release-version has always been available in zip-format as well. http://sparemint.org/sparemint/mint/kernel/1.17.0/

I'm currently setting up MiNT with DHCP-enabled networking on my 14Mb plain Falcon. I can zip it up and post it here if there's any interest.
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Re: Where to start with Mint?

Postby Dark Willow » Thu Nov 22, 2012 8:09 am

joska wrote:The release-version has always been available in zip-format as well. http://sparemint.org/sparemint/mint/kernel/1.17.0/

I'm currently setting up MiNT with DHCP-enabled networking on my 14Mb plain Falcon. I can zip it up and post it here if there's any interest.


Yes please, especially if you have the simple, plain setup! -

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Re: Where to start with Mint?

Postby wongck » Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:28 am

joska wrote:The release-version has always been available in zip-format as well. http://sparemint.org/sparemint/mint/kernel/1.17.0/

Ah... yes, I see it is since Jan 2011. :D
So now I must really update my tutorials. :wink:
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Re: Where to start with Mint?

Postby Shredder11 » Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:14 am

joska wrote:The release-version has always been available in zip-format as well. http://sparemint.org/sparemint/mint/kernel/1.17.0/

I'm currently setting up MiNT with DHCP-enabled networking on my 14Mb plain Falcon. I can zip it up and post it here if there's any interest.


YES PLEASE! :cheers:

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Re: Where to start with Mint?

Postby joska » Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:23 am

wongck wrote:Ah... yes, I see it is since Jan 2011. :D


Earlier versions too, look here. Well hidden on the SpareMiNT website :)
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Re: Where to start with Mint?

Postby wongck » Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:27 am

joska wrote:Earlier versions too, look here. Well hidden on the SpareMiNT website :)


Amazing what one can see once it is made known. :D
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Re: Where to start with Mint?

Postby joska » Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:29 pm

Shredder11 wrote:
joska wrote:The release-version has always been available in zip-format as well. http://sparemint.org/sparemint/mint/kernel/1.17.0/

I'm currently setting up MiNT with DHCP-enabled networking on my 14Mb plain Falcon. I can zip it up and post it here if there's any interest.


YES PLEASE! :cheers:


I have it up and running on my 14Mb plain Falcon with an RGB monitor. There are two things that could be a problem:

1. XaAES needs NVDI to work on a Falcon without graphics card.
2. With DHCP enabled there's 10Mb free. So no use on a 4Mb Falcon.

If I disable dhcp and remove everything that's not strictly necessary (and with minimal HD and NVDI caches) I think it's possible to run MiNT+XaAES+Teradesk with about 1.5Mb free. But how usable is that? Would anybody use this?

I think 14Mb should be considered a minimum on the Falcon.

I will compile the Firebee network configuration tool for the 030 tonight and upload a complete, working setup tonight or tomorrow.
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Re: Where to start with Mint?

Postby Dark Willow » Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:54 pm

joska wrote:
Shredder11 wrote:
joska wrote:The release-version has always been available in zip-format as well. http://sparemint.org/sparemint/mint/kernel/1.17.0/

I'm currently setting up MiNT with DHCP-enabled networking on my 14Mb plain Falcon. I can zip it up and post it here if there's any interest.


YES PLEASE! :cheers:


I have it up and running on my 14Mb plain Falcon with an RGB monitor. There are two things that could be a problem:

1. XaAES needs NVDI to work on a Falcon without graphics card.
2. With DHCP enabled there's 10Mb free. So no use on a 4Mb Falcon.

If I disable dhcp and remove everything that's not strictly necessary (and with minimal HD and NVDI caches) I think it's possible to run MiNT+XaAES+Teradesk with about 1.5Mb free. But how usable is that? Would anybody use this?

I think 14Mb should be considered a minimum on the Falcon.

I will compile the Firebee network configuration tool for the 030 tonight and upload a complete, working setup tonight or tomorrow.


I'd certainly like to give it a try. I have 24mb RAM split 10/16 between ST and TT RAM (does Mint have to run in one or other, or can it use both?).
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Re: Where to start with Mint?

Postby joska » Thu Nov 22, 2012 1:10 pm

Dark Willow wrote:I'd certainly like to give it a try. I have 24mb RAM split 10/16 between ST and TT RAM (does Mint have to run in one or other, or can it use both?).


MiNT will use both. It will run in TT-RAM by default.
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Re: Where to start with Mint?

Postby calimero » Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:29 pm

hey, wongck, I follow your guide but I get:

Code: Select all

XaAES loader: No such file "\c\MINT\1-17-0\XAAES\xaaes.km"



there is no xaaes.km in xaaes folder but there is several .km files:

xaaes000.km
xaaes030.km
xaaes040.km
xaaes060.km
xaaesst.km
...

shouldn't MiNT automatically rename one of the files to xaaes.km?

I manually change xaaes030.km and got TeraDesk :)
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