ColdFire board running TOS

Hardware, coding, music, graphic and various applications

Moderators: Mug UK, moondog/.tSCc., [ProToS], lp, Moderator Team

Re: ColdFire board running TOS

Postby wongck » Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:42 am

cod3r wrote:Oh since you mention it, I don't have midi interface on my project. Not the physical ports or emulated.
For the board cost, I have no clue what they cost or are selling for. Not my department and because of the client most of us employees wouldn't know the price anyway.
I am not familiar with the new accelerator but I will certainly look it up. Thanks for the heads up...

So it is emulating the keyboard & mouse only now.
Since only the CPU is emulated, there are lots of hardware on the Atari not emulated. So it is more of a GEM emulator for now.
My Stuff: Falcon CT63+CTPCI ATI R7500 14+512MB 30GB HDD CF HxC_SD EtherNEC/ FB/ TT030 68882 4+32MB 520MB Nova/ 520STFM 4MB Tos206 SCSI
Shared SCSI Bus:ScsiLink ethernet, 9GB HDD,SD-reader @ http://phsw.atari.org
My Atari stuff for sale - click here for list
User avatar
wongck
Ultimate Atarian
Ultimate Atarian
 
Posts: 10756
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 2:09 pm
Location: Far East

Re: ColdFire board running TOS

Postby cod3r » Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:34 am

wongck wrote:
cod3r wrote:No links for AROS. My company will not allow me to show their product using a non-OSI licensed software for legal reasons. Sorry...

That's the reason it is running on EmuTos I suppose. :mrgreen:


That is exactly the reason. I don't want to get fired over my little project :lol:
cod3r
Atariator
Atariator
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:45 am

Re: ColdFire board running TOS

Postby cod3r » Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:40 am

wongck wrote:
cod3r wrote:The video of mine looks like it runs good but to tell the truth there are many bugs in it. The EmuTOS kept locking up with MiNT running so that is something I would have to really take a look at.

Something that I do not understand... Why must you run Mint on it?
EmuTOS is an OS by itself. It's is suppose to be similar to Tos 2.06 by Atari.
The user guide for TOS 2.06 is here. You may want to browse and see what it can/cannot do.

Mint is an OS by itself and ought to be used with newer AES like XaAES. If you are running MINT with EmuTOS AES/VDI then it may not be working well. Anyway, MINT is the multitasking kernel and needs the programs to be written correctly.
Also the Mint version on your video is 1,12 which is pretty old.

I wonder how would the compatibility be without MINT on it.


It is a very old version. It came on the MultiTOS disk from Atari. I bought a new old-stock copy so I could test it out. I could not figure out how to get the newer free versions of MiNT to work as there was no load-and-go installer that I could find on the net.

Without MiNT the board doesn't crash at all. I assumed that most Atari users used MiNT instead of the single-tasking EmuTOS. I have read quite a bit about GEM/GEMDOS so that I could understand how Atari system calls work.
cod3r
Atariator
Atariator
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:45 am

Re: ColdFire board running TOS

Postby cod3r » Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:46 am

wongck wrote:
cod3r wrote:Oh since you mention it, I don't have midi interface on my project. Not the physical ports or emulated.
For the board cost, I have no clue what they cost or are selling for. Not my department and because of the client most of us employees wouldn't know the price anyway.
I am not familiar with the new accelerator but I will certainly look it up. Thanks for the heads up...

So it is emulating the keyboard & mouse only now.
Since only the CPU is emulated, there are lots of hardware on the Atari not emulated. So it is more of a GEM emulator for now.


And not just the keyboard and mouse are emulated, the Yamaha sound chip (in theory but the board has no sound output) is, system timer a and timer c, the blitter chip (EmuTOS doesn't use it), serial and parallel (again, in theory-Untested). Almost everything but midi. So it is basically running like a accelerated ST. Some games don't work because of some timing issues, but almost all of the GEM apps I encountered run perfect. Well, an old GEM app to identify the system locks up (called STat or something like that), but that was the only one.
cod3r
Atariator
Atariator
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:45 am

Re: ColdFire board running TOS

Postby wongck » Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:37 am

cod3r wrote:It is a very old version. It came on the MultiTOS disk from Atari. I bought a new old-stock copy so I could test it out. I could not figure out how to get the newer free versions of MiNT to work as there was no load-and-go installer that I could find on the net.

Without MiNT the board doesn't crash at all. I assumed that most Atari users used MiNT instead of the single-tasking EmuTOS. I have read quite a bit about GEM/GEMDOS so that I could understand how Atari system calls work.

TBH, I think most ST users are not using MINT as the hardware is not to par. For example, MINT needs at 14MB to be of any use. It is also very picky on the applications it allows to run properly. Most of the older software runs with some sort of a complaint from it.

For MINT on a 68000 ( most of the compilations are for 030 or better), there is a one-click installation called Crippled Mint.
Yes, the name does not sound too good, the author could have chosen a better name for it.
You can find the web site here.
I have no idea what version of MINT it uses. May be you can try it.
My Stuff: Falcon CT63+CTPCI ATI R7500 14+512MB 30GB HDD CF HxC_SD EtherNEC/ FB/ TT030 68882 4+32MB 520MB Nova/ 520STFM 4MB Tos206 SCSI
Shared SCSI Bus:ScsiLink ethernet, 9GB HDD,SD-reader @ http://phsw.atari.org
My Atari stuff for sale - click here for list
User avatar
wongck
Ultimate Atarian
Ultimate Atarian
 
Posts: 10756
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 2:09 pm
Location: Far East

Re: ColdFire board running TOS

Postby wongck » Mon Jul 30, 2012 5:44 am

cod3r wrote:And not just the keyboard and mouse are emulated, the Yamaha sound chip (in theory but the board has no sound output) is, system timer a and timer c, the blitter chip (EmuTOS doesn't use it), serial and parallel (again, in theory-Untested). Almost everything but midi. So it is basically running like a accelerated ST. Some games don't work because of some timing issues, but almost all of the GEM apps I encountered run perfect. Well, an old GEM app to identify the system locks up (called STat or something like that), but that was the only one.


Wow... I am sorry for being ignorant. So it is truly an Atari emulated !!
For the Blitter emulation, I saw you ran GEMBENCH in your video. There is one part that does the blitting, so it is kind of tested. :mrgreen:

I wonder what it needs to make an development environment for this type of boards... I mean on the software part, not the hardware. i assume the hardware is readilty can be purchased like those reference designs that you mentioned. Do you needs some special hardware to go between the board and PC for the development? Is it just matter of flashing the new firmware ?
My Stuff: Falcon CT63+CTPCI ATI R7500 14+512MB 30GB HDD CF HxC_SD EtherNEC/ FB/ TT030 68882 4+32MB 520MB Nova/ 520STFM 4MB Tos206 SCSI
Shared SCSI Bus:ScsiLink ethernet, 9GB HDD,SD-reader @ http://phsw.atari.org
My Atari stuff for sale - click here for list
User avatar
wongck
Ultimate Atarian
Ultimate Atarian
 
Posts: 10756
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 2:09 pm
Location: Far East

Re: ColdFire board running TOS

Postby vido » Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:48 am

cod3r wrote:I didn't use traps or anything similar, I have the whole 68k core emulated. Other than my pseudo-instructions, you cannot access the ColdFire native instruction set under my emulator. Of course that could be changed, but that was the quick and easy way for me to do it.

Mouse and keyboard are ps/2 through a small interface I connect directly to the board, the FPGA provides the logic for the ps/2 interface. It is kind of hacky but it works. I couldn't figure out how to make EmuTOS communicate with the USB ports so keyboard and mouse was impossible for me to implement.

I see ... good 68k emulation on the FireBee would be needed only for certain applications which are not compiled for the Coldfire. Optimised and adapted would be very intereting by my opinion.

We need logic for the PS/2 in VHDL. FireBee has PS/2 ports and working PS/2 mouse and keyboard would be great!

Right now I see you could contribute in many our projects if you would be interested ... and it seems you are :)
vido
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
 
Posts: 204
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:39 pm

Re: ColdFire board running TOS

Postby Mathias » Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:23 am

vido wrote: We need logic for the PS/2 in VHDL. FireBee has PS/2 ports and working PS/2 mouse and keyboard would be great!

Right now I see you could contribute in many our projects if you would be interested ... and it seems you are :)
Vido, PS/2 is PIC microcontroller, not the FPGA. For the FPGA we need continuing the DSP, and improved IDE (48Bit LBA and DMA), as improving the Videl if I remember correctly. The Blitter is under construction by Wolfgang Förster right now. ;)
MegaST 4 with Sounddesigner II MegaBus hardware and 56001, Hades 040, MagiC Mac at Mac OS 9 and a FireBee.
Mathias
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
 
Posts: 525
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 4:51 pm
Location: Vienna

Re: ColdFire board running TOS

Postby vido » Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:27 am

Mathias wrote:
vido wrote: We need logic for the PS/2 in VHDL. FireBee has PS/2 ports and working PS/2 mouse and keyboard would be great!

Right now I see you could contribute in many our projects if you would be interested ... and it seems you are :)
Vido, PS/2 is PIC microcontroller, not the FPGA. For the FPGA we need continuing the DSP, and improved IDE (48Bit LBA and DMA), as improving the Videl if I remember correctly. The Blitter is under construction by Wolfgang Förster right now. ;)

Ups ... right! :)
I allways forget PIC altought it is mentioned many times :)

Well Cod3r ... as Mathias said there is plenty to do ...
vido
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
 
Posts: 204
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:39 pm

Re: ColdFire board running TOS

Postby lp » Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:08 am

cod3r wrote:I don't have GFABASIC to try. Can I download it somewhere? Or if it is commercial do you have any links to I can buy it?


http://userpages.bright.net/~gfabasic/f ... a_edit.zip
User avatar
lp
Atari God
Atari God
 
Posts: 1772
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 11:09 pm
Location: My desk

Re: ColdFire board running TOS

Postby cod3r » Wed Aug 01, 2012 4:39 am

vido wrote:
cod3r wrote:I didn't use traps or anything similar, I have the whole 68k core emulated. Other than my pseudo-instructions, you cannot access the ColdFire native instruction set under my emulator. Of course that could be changed, but that was the quick and easy way for me to do it.

Mouse and keyboard are ps/2 through a small interface I connect directly to the board, the FPGA provides the logic for the ps/2 interface. It is kind of hacky but it works. I couldn't figure out how to make EmuTOS communicate with the USB ports so keyboard and mouse was impossible for me to implement.

I see ... good 68k emulation on the FireBee would be needed only for certain applications which are not compiled for the Coldfire. Optimised and adapted would be very intereting by my opinion.

We need logic for the PS/2 in VHDL. FireBee has PS/2 ports and working PS/2 mouse and keyboard would be great!

Right now I see you could contribute in many our projects if you would be interested ... and it seems you are :)


I am... i've been working more on the board at work, and so far I broke compatibility somehow... I called myself optimizing the 68k emulation engine, now many of the programs I used before don't work...

Good news is that I am retooling the USB stack so that I can use USB keyboard and mouse. I can't figure out hotplugging USB ports with EmuTOS though. I'll keep you posted :)
cod3r
Atariator
Atariator
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:45 am

Re: ColdFire board running TOS

Postby cod3r » Wed Aug 01, 2012 4:41 am

lp wrote:
cod3r wrote:I don't have GFABASIC to try. Can I download it somewhere? Or if it is commercial do you have any links to I can buy it?


http://userpages.bright.net/~gfabasic/f ... a_edit.zip


Thanks! If I can fix what I broke with the emulation, i'll try it out... :D
cod3r
Atariator
Atariator
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:45 am

Re: ColdFire board running TOS

Postby cod3r » Wed Aug 01, 2012 4:49 am

wongck wrote:
cod3r wrote:And not just the keyboard and mouse are emulated, the Yamaha sound chip (in theory but the board has no sound output) is, system timer a and timer c, the blitter chip (EmuTOS doesn't use it), serial and parallel (again, in theory-Untested). Almost everything but midi. So it is basically running like a accelerated ST. Some games don't work because of some timing issues, but almost all of the GEM apps I encountered run perfect. Well, an old GEM app to identify the system locks up (called STat or something like that), but that was the only one.


Wow... I am sorry for being ignorant. So it is truly an Atari emulated !!
For the Blitter emulation, I saw you ran GEMBENCH in your video. There is one part that does the blitting, so it is kind of tested. :mrgreen:

I wonder what it needs to make an development environment for this type of boards... I mean on the software part, not the hardware. i assume the hardware is readilty can be purchased like those reference designs that you mentioned. Do you needs some special hardware to go between the board and PC for the development? Is it just matter of flashing the new firmware ?


The Blitter is tested in the emulation, but it really doesn't work-It just goes through the motions. I tested my implementation through my own routines, but I am pretty certain that EmuTOS doesn't support the Blitter at all.

For development, I use this http://microcontrollershop.com/product_ ... b1k9vo79r5 though I had no idea this is how much it costs. Obviously I didn't have to pay that because I use the tools at work for free. I am pretty sure that there are a variety of freeware tools that can substitute nearly every part of it.

All debugging is done through SPI. No other special hardware. Most of the development boards support JTAG or SPI or both, depending on the design.
cod3r
Atariator
Atariator
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:45 am

Re: ColdFire board running TOS

Postby cod3r » Wed Aug 01, 2012 4:54 am

wongck wrote:
cod3r wrote:And not just the keyboard and mouse are emulated, the Yamaha sound chip (in theory but the board has no sound output) is, system timer a and timer c, the blitter chip (EmuTOS doesn't use it), serial and parallel (again, in theory-Untested). Almost everything but midi. So it is basically running like a accelerated ST. Some games don't work because of some timing issues, but almost all of the GEM apps I encountered run perfect. Well, an old GEM app to identify the system locks up (called STat or something like that), but that was the only one.


Wow... I am sorry for being ignorant. So it is truly an Atari emulated !!
For the Blitter emulation, I saw you ran GEMBENCH in your video. There is one part that does the blitting, so it is kind of tested. :mrgreen:

I wonder what it needs to make an development environment for this type of boards... I mean on the software part, not the hardware. i assume the hardware is readilty can be purchased like those reference designs that you mentioned. Do you needs some special hardware to go between the board and PC for the development? Is it just matter of flashing the new firmware ?


This board is pretty similar... http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/sit ... rch=1&sr=2 take away the PCI slots and the faster processor and I would say it is almost identical (minus the Altera FPGA) to my company's board. In fact, I intend to see if I can get a similar Freescale evaluation board to hack away at home.
cod3r
Atariator
Atariator
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:45 am

Re: ColdFire board running TOS

Postby wongck » Wed Aug 01, 2012 6:38 am

cod3r wrote:This board is pretty similar... http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/sit ... rch=1&sr=2 take away the PCI slots and the faster processor and I would say it is almost identical (minus the Altera FPGA) to my company's board. In fact, I intend to see if I can get a similar Freescale evaluation board to hack away at home.

This board isn't at all cheap @ USD$850.
Better off just get FB as it is ready to be used.
May be for the fun of hacking & developing other other passionate needs, it may be worth it.
My Stuff: Falcon CT63+CTPCI ATI R7500 14+512MB 30GB HDD CF HxC_SD EtherNEC/ FB/ TT030 68882 4+32MB 520MB Nova/ 520STFM 4MB Tos206 SCSI
Shared SCSI Bus:ScsiLink ethernet, 9GB HDD,SD-reader @ http://phsw.atari.org
My Atari stuff for sale - click here for list
User avatar
wongck
Ultimate Atarian
Ultimate Atarian
 
Posts: 10756
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 2:09 pm
Location: Far East

Re: ColdFire board running TOS

Postby wongck » Wed Aug 01, 2012 6:42 am

cod3r wrote:I am... i've been working more on the board at work, and so far I broke compatibility somehow... I called myself optimizing the 68k emulation engine, now many of the programs I used before don't work...

Good news is that I am retooling the USB stack so that I can use USB keyboard and mouse. I can't figure out hotplugging USB ports with EmuTOS though. I'll keep you posted :)


I hope you fix the issue.
Must be fun working on your own project at work. :wink:

The nearest Atari got to USB is in Mint, not sure if any of the codes in the USB module is any good. You can see the source from http://sparemint.atariforge.net/
My Stuff: Falcon CT63+CTPCI ATI R7500 14+512MB 30GB HDD CF HxC_SD EtherNEC/ FB/ TT030 68882 4+32MB 520MB Nova/ 520STFM 4MB Tos206 SCSI
Shared SCSI Bus:ScsiLink ethernet, 9GB HDD,SD-reader @ http://phsw.atari.org
My Atari stuff for sale - click here for list
User avatar
wongck
Ultimate Atarian
Ultimate Atarian
 
Posts: 10756
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 2:09 pm
Location: Far East

Re: ColdFire board running TOS

Postby vido » Wed Aug 01, 2012 6:47 am

wongck wrote:
cod3r wrote:This board is pretty similar... http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/sit ... rch=1&sr=2 take away the PCI slots and the faster processor and I would say it is almost identical (minus the Altera FPGA) to my company's board. In fact, I intend to see if I can get a similar Freescale evaluation board to hack away at home.

This board isn't at all cheap @ USD$850.
Better off just get FB as it is ready to be used.
May be for the fun of hacking & developing other other passionate needs, it may be worth it.

I think the same. If you want a development board at home then I would consider to buy a FireBee. I think it is still cheapest compared what it offers and you could contribute to the project a lot.
vido
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
 
Posts: 204
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:39 pm

Re: ColdFire board running TOS

Postby wongck » Wed Aug 01, 2012 6:59 am

with EUROs dropping this week, it is very tempting. :roll:
My Stuff: Falcon CT63+CTPCI ATI R7500 14+512MB 30GB HDD CF HxC_SD EtherNEC/ FB/ TT030 68882 4+32MB 520MB Nova/ 520STFM 4MB Tos206 SCSI
Shared SCSI Bus:ScsiLink ethernet, 9GB HDD,SD-reader @ http://phsw.atari.org
My Atari stuff for sale - click here for list
User avatar
wongck
Ultimate Atarian
Ultimate Atarian
 
Posts: 10756
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 2:09 pm
Location: Far East

Re: ColdFire board running TOS

Postby vido » Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:01 am

cod3r wrote:I am... i've been working more on the board at work, and so far I broke compatibility somehow... I called myself optimizing the 68k emulation engine, now many of the programs I used before don't work...

That is the joy of the development :)
I am sure you will fix that soon. I hope we will be able to test your work on our platform? :)
vido
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
 
Posts: 204
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:39 pm

Re: ColdFire board running TOS

Postby vido » Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:02 am

wongck wrote:with EUROs dropping this week, it is very tempting. :roll:

It would be really great to see you in the team too!!! You just did great applications for the Atari platform ...
vido
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
 
Posts: 204
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:39 pm

Re: ColdFire board running TOS

Postby wongck » Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:48 am

vido wrote:It would be really great to see you in the team too!!! You just did great applications for the Atari platform ...

Hey.... I'm always in the Atari team no matter using which model. You got a native CF code program even when I am not using a CF computer. :wink:

BTW, I calculated that the price diff is nearly 5% compared to beginning of last month 8O
My Stuff: Falcon CT63+CTPCI ATI R7500 14+512MB 30GB HDD CF HxC_SD EtherNEC/ FB/ TT030 68882 4+32MB 520MB Nova/ 520STFM 4MB Tos206 SCSI
Shared SCSI Bus:ScsiLink ethernet, 9GB HDD,SD-reader @ http://phsw.atari.org
My Atari stuff for sale - click here for list
User avatar
wongck
Ultimate Atarian
Ultimate Atarian
 
Posts: 10756
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 2:09 pm
Location: Far East

Re: ColdFire board running TOS

Postby cod3r » Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:12 am

wongck wrote:
cod3r wrote:This board is pretty similar... http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/sit ... rch=1&sr=2 take away the PCI slots and the faster processor and I would say it is almost identical (minus the Altera FPGA) to my company's board. In fact, I intend to see if I can get a similar Freescale evaluation board to hack away at home.

This board isn't at all cheap @ USD$850.
Better off just get FB as it is ready to be used.
May be for the fun of hacking & developing other other passionate needs, it may be worth it.


I agree, but that price must be old because I know of a Freescale ColdFire v4 eval board for just $225 USD. If I find the link, i'll post it. I would like a FireBee but that is about 3x the price of the Freescale eval board I was looking at. With student loans to pay back, I can't really afford it just yet :(
cod3r
Atariator
Atariator
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:45 am

Re: ColdFire board running TOS

Postby cod3r » Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:18 am

vido wrote:
cod3r wrote:I am... i've been working more on the board at work, and so far I broke compatibility somehow... I called myself optimizing the 68k emulation engine, now many of the programs I used before don't work...

That is the joy of the development :)
I am sure you will fix that soon. I hope we will be able to test your work on our platform? :)


That is... I just hate breaking things! I always can get things working slowly but when I try to optimize I end up breaking them :D

To test the work I would probably have to have a better idea of how the Firebee works. Since I made up my own emulation engine, I am almost 100% certain it won't work directly with the Firebee, at least as it is. The code would work but I see that the Firebee has its own EmuTOS and that it is a native ColdFire binary. That would be a problem as my emulator is started before the EmuTOS is even loaded. So I would have to re-write it to run under EmuTOS instead of the other way around. And i'm not sure how to do that...
cod3r
Atariator
Atariator
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 3:45 am

Re: ColdFire board running TOS

Postby vido » Thu Aug 02, 2012 6:56 am

wongck wrote:Hey.... I'm always in the Atari team no matter using which model. You got a native CF code program even when I am not using a CF computer. :wink:

BTW, I calculated that the price diff is nearly 5% compared to beginning of last month 8O

I know you are in Atari team! :)

So now is maybe the time to buy one. Maybe even more and when Euro goes up sell them ;)
vido
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
 
Posts: 204
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:39 pm

Re: ColdFire board running TOS

Postby vido » Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:08 am

cod3r wrote:That is... I just hate breaking things! I always can get things working slowly but when I try to optimize I end up breaking them :D

To test the work I would probably have to have a better idea of how the Firebee works. Since I made up my own emulation engine, I am almost 100% certain it won't work directly with the Firebee, at least as it is. The code would work but I see that the Firebee has its own EmuTOS and that it is a native ColdFire binary. That would be a problem as my emulator is started before the EmuTOS is even loaded. So I would have to re-write it to run under EmuTOS instead of the other way around. And i'm not sure how to do that...

I think the best way would be to make to run EmuTOS natively as it is on FireBee. They you make your emulator is used only for the applications which needs emulator. We allready have such emulator which redirects system call to OS running natively. But I think it needs further development.

Maybe you should take a look into FreeMiNT setup for the Firebee which you can download from here: http://atari.nvg.org/firebee-mint/
It contains all the firmware and sources + some documentation together with the software ... With that maybe you will be able to make your board more compatible with the FireBee.
vido
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
 
Posts: 204
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:39 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Professionals

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CommonCrawl [Bot], dbsys and 1 guest