Atari TT early revision

[Shredder11]

Ok. So lets get this right?

1. The SCSI is faster than the SCSI-IDE by a small margin? But it works fine and no probs with hard drives and CF Cards?
2. I'll be better to get a SCSI CD-Rom and the Yamaha's look best if I want to do RW ?
3. So I might be best to combine SCSI-IDE-CF on one link, a SCSI-CDRW on the other, and if I want ZIP (internal) a SCSI-ZIP would be best.
5. I will have to upgrade to HDRIVER to get best results.

1. I think so yes.
2. Yamaha best for sure, although I did not manage to burn a RW disc, just CDR as data or audio CD or drive image ISO.
3. I have internal IDE interface in my 4160STE with a 4GB Sandisk Ultra II CF card; the Yamaha writer is connected via the ICD The Link 2 interface. I have not managed to get a dual arrangement working via my Acard yet. It's just a matter of me learning how to do it.
5. HD Driver is well worth having full stop.

[wongck]

Can anyone confirm why my method did not work, and have any recommendations, comment on my dilemma??

The Atari partition table are way far advance to MSDOS. GEM was handling CDROM when MS was doing floppies.
MS then did a hack to make it work for OS/2 & Windoze, and that's when compatibility was lost.
Windoze hard disk tools, developers tend to drop things that are non main stream, so the original MFM disk partitions as well as Atari partition was dropped.

I guess there may be some tools that still be able to read Atari partition out there... like the truth, it's out there.
Look at this thread for more: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20702

[1024MAK]

This is excellent excellent info. And I could not have asked for more. Really going to implement some of this, and especially with regards to protecting the existing units I have and also helping me to have confidence to do the right thing. You know, I would be interested in fitting some kind of over-voltage protection, if its not too hard. Not sure if the PSU has this? I was also interested to know if it was possible to retrofit "switch mode power supply" or something that is cooler, and more modern and efficient. Possibly smaller too. Then I can put some extra stuff in the TT at a later date (not telling what!!)

Bit short of time at the mo. So only “quick” replies...
Atari PSU's do not have any secondary independent over-voltage protection circuits. The circuit I have in mind can be fitted to nearly any device. I will post up the details later...
If the TT is similar to other Atari machines then I can see no problem with fitting a different SMPSU. Just check that the 5V output on the PSU is the main regulated output and as I said above, don't rely on the wire colours.

Regarding thermal and caps. This seems to be the most important to address. And I must make this a priority. I have already ordered some components, but are there for example a list of Caps in each machine? I have a dead STe that is due to a fault on the PSU, and I have no doubt that leaky caps are the no 1 death cause for atari. However, as you can see, I am no electronics expert, and I would prefer to order from a list, and then solder carefully. This I can do!!

I work on other electronics as well as computers, so I do not have a list, as I tend to buy more than what I need and then “rob” my stores as and when I need them (and then find out that I don't have all the values / types I need, so have to put in a fresh order! )
I did see one list for one design of Atari PSU (for a STFM / STE PSU) once, but forget where...

I forgot to mention to 1024MAK's post that the chips are too hot to hold for 30 seconds, and quite uncomfortable... Ha ha.

Best to either ensure a good air flow over these, or add heatsinks like you were thinking of then...! I don't have a TT, so I am unable to compare, but keeping them cool does no harm and should extend their life .

Is it slower when it gets hot??

IIRC semiconductors operate quicker as they get hot (BTW electrons slow down in hot metal conductors). However this should not have much effect as the CPU is synchronised to the 32MHz clock signal...

You know I write up my experience with Atari, and reasons for going back, plus my work in quite some detail. Then my damn annoying and evil Windows7 machine (which by the way, I have tried every tweak and fix under the sun to keep it from evil) decided that as I had written for over an hour into a form field on Choogle Chrome, it would now be a good time to "install updates", that I dont even want ( they are supposed to be turned off ) , and restart my computer, consequently losing all my work and writing, and of course no way to recover.

Yep, had Windoz (in this case both XP and Vista) do this to me! If I am doing a long post or entry I now use OpenOffice.org to write it (it's free, it's not M$ and it also auto-saves and recovers files nicely ) then copy and paste the text into the browser text box .
You may not know this, but if the M$ OS gets fed up of waiting for you to install some of the “important” updates, it will do it anyway even if auto-updates is switched off. Very nice NOT .

I still have no idea how PhotoChome worked to view 19,200 colours on a STANDARD ST, and I also used Spectrum 512. But PhotoChrome was better. Does anyone have this? Is there anyone who has not seen this? Simply amazing. How the hell did they do it????

I did see some info on this many years ago (but don't ask me where!). I believe the clever programmers synchronised the MPU with the video timing and reprogrammed the video hardware on the fly, so fooling it into displaying more colours. Some games also did this . Also other programmers did similar things on other machines (e.g. 8 bit machines like the Acorn BBC) .

.... the WORLD ENDS in 2012, unless you have not been reading the mayan calander, and the words of the prophets.

The world has already ended. However, some fool has found that it can be restarted by switching it off and on again . This is the real cause of all those earthquakes!

[bid]

The world has already ended. However, some fool has found that it can be restarted by switching it off and on again . This is the real cause of all those earthquakes!

Lol. Typical. Verty funny indeed.

Yes hopefully my stick on heatsinkswill be here very soon. Damn my PC keyboard is cheap and crap. I cant type properly on it. Cant wait to get the damn TT up and running, and then use the excellent (but not quite a great as Stacey apparently) keyboard. The TT keyboard is nice and mushy but just less so than the ST.. puuurfect!

On that note, couple of questions. 1. When I get the 030 bad boy on line fully, can I browse and post to the forum using CAB or Highwire or similar? i.e. do forms work? 2. Can I use my blackberry to post onto this forum using some kind of blackberry app or news feed type thingy?

My TT is sat in some cold soapy water right now. So had better not plug it in. As I am still waiting for the heatsinks and a memory upgrade from Simbo, then I thought I would sort out some of the severe yellowing. This think was ripe, like a bannana. Im serious, take a look at this...


I got a new TT keyboard with kool swedish alphabet letters on it from 16/32 Systems for £25 http://sales1632.myzen.co.uk/acatalog/Atari_TT.html . Excellent! (Much better than the same ones that ST Freakz is selling at £55 on eBay which look suspiciously the same http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Atari-Mega-ST-STE-TT-030-external-keyboard-BOXED-NEW-/150582523266?pt=UK_VintageComputing_RL&hash=item230f6af582#ht_1504wt_1052 and at a £30 quid markup. Seriously, this guy is just buying up nice sells on ebay and I certainly dont intend on losing out on nice Atari bargins on eBay and then buying them off him later at a huge markup. I recommend 16/32 Systems. Anyway point is look at the colour of the new TT030 keyboard compared to my bananna coloured TT

So I'll post some pics of the Retrobrited TT later today or tomorrow hopefully. Next job perhaps the capacitors, and voltage protection, but its a shame that there is no Capacitors list, as I am really underconfident with this. Perhaps this is one for the wiki, once someone gets round to making it workable http://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=20679&p=183189#p183189 but currently Atari Forums Wiki, is a bit like Atari's marketing policy of the 90's, "Everything that communicates, communicates" ?!? Like the FAQ button that results in 404 Error. Honestly, I did not even realise there was a wiki for 3 months, and I bet a lot of people are unaware of this? Anyways I'll post some pics laters

[bid]

Ok. So the retrobrite method has come out Shweeeeeeeeet!!!!!

I'll take some pics soon, once i have re-assembled! But question.

In my hasty rush I lost the label for the TT internal speaker. I really need it, as its my metronome and I have only a VGA monitor I salvaged with no speakers. So can anyone tell a poor fule how to re-attach the internal speaker!! Please

[bid]

Another question, if anyone can answer it. Im wanting to "Install Application" in Magic, and add a command line argument e.g. -e to a GEM application. I can do this in TOS3 but not it seems in Magic. Surely there is a way???

[bid]

Ok. No answer yet unfortunately. I've re-assembled after retrobriting the TT.



Not so clear as I dont have a daytime pic. I'll do one later. But needless to say. Its back to the light TT off white colour, and looking damn fine.

I have replaced the ICD Pro driver with Uwe's HDDRIVER. Thus I am hoping to increase performance and also include some additional partitions and options.

However, I have again a couple of questions.

1. When I run HDDRIVER in TOS, it comes up in English. When I run in Magic, it comes up in German. Reading the docs, it states that a "argument" -e is required to set the English language. I can do this in TOS3.01 easily using 'Install Application', however, in Magic not so. I get the following diologue box ...


However, there is no distinct box to put arguments in e.g. "-e" like in TOS. So here (in the photo) I have put a space, and then -e .... this does not work.

I have read in the manual for Magic, and yet, it does not mention command argument input. This is a bit wierd, and I have no idea why?? I also did a search. JUst to confirm, that HDDRIVER is an .APP executable, and in TOS3 you would go to install app and put -e in the argument box. In magic I cant find this function at all!! Can anyone help?!

[wongck]

Try pressing shift or CTRL while double clicking the HDDriver icon.
It will toggle the language.
It's mentioned in the document somewhere....

[bid]

Try pressing shift or CTRL while double clicking the HDDriver icon.
It will toggle the language.
It's mentioned in the document somewhere....

OK. So CTRL makes it boot in non-multitasking, and in English. Thank you.

Dies anyone know how to set command argument in the "Instal Application" menu in Magic though, as this is an annoyance. For example Zmodem tools like RZ.TTP are better with a saved argument such as -rz

[bid]

I am going to re-partition the 4GB CF Card today.

Can anyone recommend some partitions sizes and types. I will be using HDDRIVER Cheers!

[bid]

Ok, so

So let me get this right? Using HDDRIVER I can

(i) Create a single TOS/DOS partition combined. But this can only be one partition. Im guessing that it also has to be =< 255MB if I want to use with TOS1.62 or higher, and =< 512MB for my TT030?

- This would be a shame as I have a single 4GB CF Card. And I wish to use on both ATARI MEGA ST (TOS 1.4) and STe (1.62 and TT030 (TOS 3.01). So I can only put a single partition of 256MB if I want to transfer between PC, STe and TT030 ?
- This would be a severe limitation. I had expected to put combined Windows and TOS partitions on the drive, and also multiple partitions on the one card!
- So if I want a compatible partition I am limited to one partition. I had hoped that I could add the GEM as 256MB C, a couple of BGM as 512MB D and E and then a nice Windows compatible partition, to use with my PC and MAgic to get files transferred between my modern and vintage hardware!

Please can anyone advise the best partition for a 4BG CF Card, in which I can use on Atari and PC to transfer files. And also allow me to use TOS, Magic, Mint (in the near future) and maximize my 4GB of storage space effectively?

Thank you in advance for your answer.

Kind regards, Bid

[Ato]

(i) Create a single TOS/DOS partition combined. But this can only be one partition. Im guessing that it also has to be =< 255MB if I want to use with TOS1.62 or higher, and =< 512MB for my TT030?

Yep, that's correct.

- This would be a shame as I have a single 4GB CF Card. And I wish to use on both ATARI MEGA ST (TOS 1.4) and STe (1.62 and TT030 (TOS 3.01). So I can only put a single partition of 256MB if I want to transfer between PC, STe and TT030 ?
- This would be a severe limitation. I had expected to put combined Windows and TOS partitions on the drive, and also multiple partitions on the one card!
- So if I want a compatible partition I am limited to one partition. I had hoped that I could add the GEM as 256MB C, a couple of BGM as 512MB D and E and then a nice Windows compatible partition, to use with my PC and MAgic to get files transferred between my modern and vintage hardware!

Yep, correct again. HDDriver is not there yet but I read somewhere recently in this forum, that Uwe is working on something like support for mixed partitions. If you want to mix partitions right now, you are better off using a different driver. As much as it annoys me, I have not given up on HDDriver and am ready to wait for the next update. In the meanwhile, I got an external SCSI SD/MMC/whatever card reader (but no enclusure or cable yet ) for my Falcon to exchange data with other systems while the IDE card reader with the 16 GB SD card is Falcon only. Not hard to guess that I got 16 partitions, each 1GB on it. Obviously another limitation that I would love to see go away. I mean, what do you want to do with 16 partitions? I'd rather have bigger but less partitions.

Hth. Cheers,
T.

[lp]

That TT I bought arrived and oh boy did the UPS knock it around good as the fastram board had come completely off. Anyway I can't find any markings on the board as to the revision and the board layout is way different than my other TT. Is there some definitive guide/faq one can find or use to determine the board revision? Luckily it has TOS 3.06 and its 32mhz without any daughter board and has the 1.4mb HD floppy dip switch set on, but I'm still curious about the revision.

Ok, I found the area where the revision info is suppose to be noted on the board. The copyright and revision information is located under the ribbon cables going to the VME cage, but no one ever wrote it in.

[bid]

why not just partition the cf your using as fat and tos compatable ???
then you can uplug it to the pc without issues with a 2GB card make a 1GB tos and a 1GB fat

Cheers Simbo. This is what I have done for now.

Hopefully the next version of HDDRIVER will allow mixed partition types. As I have a 4GB card, 3GB is now wasted

However, it does now work well, and I can transfer the whole drive to the PC and back. So good enough for now....

... Well until I finally build this

[bid]

HDDriver is not there yet but I read somewhere recently in this forum, that Uwe is working on something like support for mixed partitions. If you want to mix partitions right now, you are better off using a different driver. As much as it annoys me, I have not given up on HDDriver and am ready to wait for the next update. In the meanwhile, I got an external SCSI SD/MMC/whatever card reader (but no enclusure or cable yet ) for my Falcon to exchange data with other systems while the IDE card reader with the 16 GB SD card is Falcon only. Not hard to guess that I got 16 partitions, each 1GB on it. Obviously another limitation that I would love to see go away. I mean, what do you want to do with 16 partitions? I'd rather have bigger but less partitions.

Hth. Cheers,
T.

Great info once again T!

I am going to start frequenting the HDDRIVER forum, and it is clearly worth pushing certain issues. I have just got hold of a "EtherMac MicroSCSI" which according to this website might work http://www.anodynesoftware.com/ethernet/main.htm and fits to the SCSI port I assume?

[Ato]

"EtherMac MicroSCSI"

If SCSI is any indicator I would assume "Yes". Well, there is ony one way to find out, isn't there? Hook it up!

Cheers,
T.

[simbo]

ALL versions past v4 or less hddriver provide mixed partition types

the trick is
the first part
has to be TOS for TT 1023MB {ste } 511 MB {tt} 2047 Falcon}
is a good start each steps a level ie 255 MB for tos 1,04

followed by tos dos etc,second then the rest of the space leave alone
use bigdos with older machines to access fat <2.048GB

then in atari use mint or magic to access it {even bigdos on older machines works fine}
hddriver will make tos and dos compatable but you can only access fat using bigdos

even fat32 is accessable via bigdos but ones hddriver makes a worker out of it in fat

BUT

seem hddriver has solved its 1 issue

so 512 or 1024 or 2048 are aok with 8.31 version or later,,,


now we all have a dilema

it seems pre v8.3 had a partiton size underflow by 1 byte

so where does this leave the partition info ??

it seems to me all users need to copy there data first
to image and raw

then format and partition to the new 'standard'
then restore there data as raw to the fresh drive as per 8.3/1 so far

one to add to a HDDRIVER
error post
its as a sticky in another place

[simbo]

if you prep your drive with hddriver v8.31 > then restore your raw data fine

as long as its first partition is tos only
then do what with the rest of the drive fine

[SofiST]

As I have now one TT by me, maybe can give some help here - answering on initial thread questions, which I don't see answered :

If there is doughterboard for CPU, it must be 32MHz - at least according to what I read. But best would be to run some speed test SW to be sure and compare with published results. Google little for TT speed test results then use same SW ....

TT, all versions have only 2 MB RAM on motherboard, of course it is ST RAM. And it is 64-bit wide, for fast video subsystem transfers. Below hard disk goes ST RAM expansion card - 64-bit too, of course, therefore a lot of pins on 2 connectors. TT RAM expansion is only 32 bit wide.

It is good to have at least 4MB ST RAM, for some SW, because many can not use TT RAM. Making self card is likely not easy, especially today, when hard to find proper chips. Max 12 MB possible (as total ST RAM limit is 14MB).

[simbo]

hi ppera

early rev a-c TT dont support zero wait state

this is the problem

also they use the older scsi chip not the 2 version falcon has and most later TT
falcon scsi 2 chips are made by zilog and not NCR

so perhaps the speed problems you refer to are do to these two issues

[SofiST]

Hmmm - I don't see speed problems with TT, what is by me. SCSI works fine, but I use it with UltraSatan mostly.
I just pointed to Bid that he should make some speed tests to see how his TT CPU is clocked. Using something like GEMBENCH or QuickIndex would help.

http://www.emulators.com/benchmrk.htm

DL Gemulator - in archive is Quick Index .

[simbo]

hum no worries ppera i didnt read and rubled on


i have finished bid's 16MB TTRAM board by adding sockets to a 4MB board
as i have a magnum ill use it myself eventualy
as for STRAM
just now ive populated 16 little boards from cosi {i hope he is aok in japan no news!!!}
they allow some simm ram i took off some old 4MB 72 pin simms
to fit above the original onboard STRAM i had to replace in the one i have
with sockets
new dil ram for 1MB chips is mega hard to find even from the retro game machines sites in the u/s

now mad 10 signal exists at the mcu and i made a topic about it
so i just have to rise and buffer the mad 10 line to yield 1MB and plug in the new stuff etc

then i dont see the point in the stram daughter board as ill get 8MB STRAM avalible to the system {-2mb for vme bus}
so ill send my older 2MB daughter board to bid also
this is my plan as 8MB system ram is good
so then i have also more space inside the case

i do see the point in recasing it i dont think its very nice to look at the TT
its a bit of a 'brick' and not exactly designed with vogue ...

....

[bid]

hum no worries ppera i didnt read and rubled on

What!!! ??? This is a nice suprise? shock Ppera and Simbo getting along!! (just) Congratulations!

I am really pleased as I value having technical people about, even if they do disagree sometimes. You have to be proud of your accomplishments and skills, and the only reason I don't argue is that I don't have the intelligence to do so!!! lulz

i have finished bid's 16MB TTRAM board by adding sockets to a 4MB board
as i have a magnum ill use it myself eventualy

Super! I have now got my 4GB CF Card drive running as TOS/DOS compatible, and it slots into my M$ Windowz machine and I can now easily put files on it. Great! ... I am hoping that the next installment of HDriver allows an easier mixed partition.

I have to say, that I take it for granted on the PC to use mixed partitions. My main PC now has Win32, Linux and even Mac partitions onboard. And I often play about with them to suit my whims. Although now I am starting to enjoy and reap the benefits of virtualisation using VirtualBox and VMWare which I can heartily recommend. Once I am happy with my virtualised desktop, I am seriously thinking of moving to Linux full time for my main PC needs, and Windows (which I sadly do need for my specialist CAD software) can then live in a nice quarantined box, where I can control its pesky prying ports and try to keep it under my control!! lol

as for STRAM
just now ive populated 16 little boards from cosi {i hope he is aok in japan no news!!!}
they allow some simm ram i took off some old 4MB 72 pin simms
to fit above the original onboard STRAM i had to replace in the one i have
with sockets
new dil ram for 1MB chips is mega hard to find even from the retro game machines sites in the u/s

Very very cool.

now mad 10 signal exists at the mcu and i made a topic about it
so i just have to rise and buffer the mad 10 line to yield 1MB and plug in the new stuff etc

I cant wait to read about this. At some point I would also be interested to learn how the old video shifters work? I am guessing that they just heave data in and out of memory, and in the days of the ST, I bet these were a decent bit of kit. On this topic, I am curious to know about the TT's video. It clearly uses the main ST Ram, but I am surprised that Atari left the native video on the TT so limited. Ok, its better than ST, but TT Med is really the only useable new res, and ST Mono for real work. The TT Low is really limited in my humble opinion, and TT High is something that I will probably never see in my lifetime, unless I can find the seriously rare and non-standard monitor. So OK, VGA was just coming in and all credit to Atari for using it, even if the standards changed. But what is the main cause of the limit on the built in video? Is it ram, the bandwidth, or cost, or is it that they thought it was enough? I bet someone will know a bit about this? I am just interested in why things are as they are, and option as to how good it was at the time and comparison to similar vintage hardware of the same era?

then i dont see the point in the stram daughter board as ill get 8MB STRAM avalible to the system {-2mb for vme bus}
so ill send my older 2MB daughter board to bid also
this is my plan as 8MB system ram is good
so then i have also more space inside the case

I have some 4MB simms to put in the TT Ram. Then with 2MB ST Ram, I am fully Atari'ed up lol !!

This is going to be quite enough for what I have in mind. But 4MB ST Ram will be absolutely required for the sampling programs I want to run with.

Taking apart the ST Ram looks quite a job. I had been looking at whether it is possible to remove and replace the onboard 2MB and replace with something better. But my limit of my electronics skills is currently making A'level electronics projects at the school I teach at!! lol I did manage to make a nice moisture detector, and a Auduino controlled PIC motorised car. But I have to admit I would be stabbing in dark trying to do this, and i certainly would not want to be resposible for the death of a rare Atari machine like the TT030 ! lol

I dont know how well that would go down here. But I would rather not risk it!! Perhaps if I blew up an Amiga of some kind of tinkering, naive risk taking this would be more forgivable? I'll leave my ham fisted kludging experiements and learning about electronics to something less rare!!

i do see the point in recasing it i dont think its very nice to look at the TT
its a bit of a 'brick' and not exactly designed with vogue ...

Dont worry Simbo, the TT is not getting re-cased. Its going to be lovingly restored back to original condition. I have already cleaned most of it up, and also I gave it a good hydrogen peroxiding some weeks ago. I got a new keyboard, and used this so that I could get it matched back to original colour. It looks great. I also have replaced the noisy fans with quieter ones of the same spec, (but added a cheap speed controller), and also the CF card to replace the huge full height SCSI which was also very noisy.

Now it whispers, and its almost ready to do some cool stuff. I have got my sampler, and keyboards ready, and it will be real happy pumping out some hardcore drum and base, and perhaps some gentler chill out stuff, just as it was designed for. Plus its going to be great to be able to edit and upload samples using the machine, and really I just want to use it for trimming and checking samples quickly. Also perhaps some simple effects, and modifications. I expect it to eat it up. Its really the only non crippled Atari music machine with full 32bit power.

With some suitable TT Ram, I can load up the required programmes in fast ram including OS and necessary apps. And then the 4MB St Ram, will hopefully get a resonable sample length at a decent bit rate. Really max length of final sample will be prob only few seconds max, but I certainly would be happy if I can play back though the DMA and stereo ports to check them before upload, and obviously if I can load a decent length of sample in this will make it much easier to rip out the cool bits. Then I am up there with the top equipment of yesteryear, and digging the funky retro crunch. Im going to take this bay down to the local Music Project and show the kids how music used to be made! lol This piece of kit is going to have some serious retro cool, and so fun to use and easy and quick to lock and load. Plus there is so much software I never even got to use.

The recasing that I am talking about making, is really for my STe, as it has been out of its case for years. I seperated the keyboard well before I ever got the TT. Prob in '99 at uni! It has a cardboard case!! lol

But i thought, what the hell. If I make a case for it, I might as well slap another couple of knackered Atari's in it. And I always fancied designing a case for the Firebee. But now I have the TT, I can use the design cue from the case.... I love it, by the way... and this is what I am putting onto the new case. I am going to order at least 3 for myself, and if I ever do get a falcon, i'll prob shoehorn it in there. As I like seperate keyboard, and expansion room. But this case is going to fit ANY production Atari, and the main work for me will be measuring up all the fixing holes for the PCB's. There are PCB standoffs easily available that I will spec for it. And I have for example measured the FFD cable so that hopefully the FFD of the falcon can be moved to the front of the case. Also put in a new PSU etc etc if needed.

In my case will be 1x STE with 4MB + SCSI Hard Drive / CD Rom, and in the other case, a (broken) MSTE motherboard I was donated for good causes. And if I can source the missing chips and other bits, and work out what is wrong with it. It will then get a SatanDisk, Spectre GSR (so that I can also use old mac midi tools if I like), a new PSU (as has none) and anything else I can get into it that is useful. I am gonna make the case so that it can stand on its end, like a tower, and still support dongles and midex etc. Hopefully it will look Atari like, but in a cool crystal clear!! This will be my gift to Ataridom

[bid]

This is what the current case design is looking like as of my last work on it. I am currently reviewing if I can fit in CT PCI and also measure up the PCB hole positions for all the motherboards. But I only have MEGA4, MSTE, TT and STe so far. I'll prob have to visit someone with a Falcon, or STfm to get the specs for these, and also ask for Firebee DXF's from developer.

The CT PCI is a pig as its 90mm square, and I really dont want to make the case any bigger than 90mm tall as it fits a CD rom and motherboard for all Atari perfectly. I am thinking that CT PCI owners will have to compromise
a. Put it where the PSU goes and they have to use Pico PSU (rear left corner)
b. Goes above extended (STE) joysick ports (front left) where TT Ram is on the TT
c. It goes at far right of the case, where FDD would be in oridinary Falcon, and the FDD goes to front middle.

Prob is that I have fitted a CD rom tray, so option c is hard as I dont want to compromise tray.
If I do option a I find that the CT PCI is too close to Rom port.
And option b, means that I have to leave hole for PCI cards on the left side of the case. Obviously 99% of people wont use CT PCI so I dont want to ruin the case for everyone else.

I have not been able to work out what is best solution yet. And I will need to draw in some typical PCI card sizes, look at the ribbon cable length and make some tough decisions. The advantage of (a) is that I am going to fit a square panel there anyway with a standard ATX PSU screw holes. So if a user fits CT PCI here, then a simple replacement panel for PCI slots is easy! Drawback here is that the PCI card obstructs the rom port, and also only room for 2x pci cards. I dont want to force users cut the CT PCI down (which it is designed to do!), and also this would cover up the cool looking CT60 which is nice to look at!

I could put a panel at the far right. And a gap in the CD Rom drive tray, (which is just a flat sheet of clear acrylic with holes in it anyway), and thus port the PCI cards to rear here? This is good, as the falcon does not extend all the way to the right of case (as I also designed to fit TT and MSTE which is approx 40cm wider!) and thus prob get 3-4 PCI cards in. But this is the only area where I have left room to put in a CD Rom... I could also make CD Rom fitting possible in the middle bay, but then what about floppy?

The front left, is a possible good option. But again, I will have to make PCI slots and then a cover for them. Prob could make this look 'designed in' though, or like a cooling vent. Also, perhaps suggest to make a ST PCI ??!! ... Actually this would be good for Ether NEC I would bet. Anyway, thats what it is about. Comments / suggestions?

[bid]

I am looking for a couple of Items to complete my Atari TT setup.

1. I require screws for the ST Ram and TT Ram expansion. I am not sure of the spec, would they be Whitworth, or BMC? I am guessing that they are not Metric?

2. I require to source some resistor packs, or suitable alternative for the internal SCSI Bus as this is empty.

3. I have been struggling to source SCSI cables for cheep money. Luckily I got a CENTRONICS to CENTRONICS mac style connector and a 25pin DB25 to CENTRONICS connector for nothing. But I still require an additional 25pin DB25 to CENTRONICS connector.
- Also ideally, a 25pin to 25pin DB25 SCSI atari style
- An additional CENTRONICS to CENTRONICS

So I am also wondering if anyone has any tips on a suitable supplier for ether parts, or individual components, so that I can manufacture my own. Thanks, Bid