lamer's question

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lamer's question

Postby Linuxbuilders » Sun Oct 10, 2010 2:28 am

Hi,
this is not pro at all but I have to ask, since I have my falcons fixed and going I have started playing up with it. Got magic and jinnee and other stuff... now because I cannot find any information about magic like forum with details about hacking this thing or deep config I gave up after an hour and I want to ask few questions.

1. out of "the box" magic is using GEM, how to get rid of it and replace it with Jinnee so it gets loaded instead of GEM?
2. how the hdd tree is organized and what are the config files on it, what do I need and what I do not need?
3. any deep configuration tricks for magic? necessary file replacements, etc?
4. how to get my scsi cdrom working?
5. how to get rid of control panel? is it built in? previous owner did put in his name as an owner of the machine, how to remove it? is it internal atari software of some junk installed by previous owner?
6. any ways to get better resolution than standard "out of the box" without hardware mods?
7. I want to get my second falcon boxed, when ct63 and ct pci finally gets here %$&*@#$ I want to put it all in 2U rack and get external keyboard and mouse. for mouse I have got pic converter to usb which works with standard keyboard. any way to get rid of standard keyboard and get external usc/ps2 and mouse?
8. is IDE cdrom going to work with standard hdd driver? (I use v6)

thnx 4 help guys
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Re: lamer's question

Postby Linuxbuilders » Sun Oct 10, 2010 6:25 am

I have found this:
viewtopic.php?f=74&t=9590
but it does not explain how to get those driver working with magic ;(
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Re: lamer's question

Postby nativ » Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:25 am

Linuxbuilders wrote:Hi,
this is not pro at all but I have to ask, since I have my falcons fixed and going I have started playing up with it. Got magic and jinnee and other stuff... now because I cannot find any information about magic like forum with details about hacking this thing or deep config I gave up after an hour and I want to ask few questions.

1. out of "the box" magic is using GEM, how to get rid of it and replace it with Jinnee so it gets loaded instead of GEM?
? Press the Mag!C button! :D

2. how the hdd tree is organized and what are the config files on it, what do I need and what I do not need?
?
3. any deep configuration tricks for magic? necessary file replacements, etc?
? You can use NVDI / SpeedoGDOS too ?

4. how to get my scsi cdrom working?

Using ExtenDos or Spin!

5. how to get rid of control panel? is it built in? previous owner did put in his name as an owner of the machine, how to remove it? is it internal atari software of some junk installed by previous owner?

Control Panel or Xcontrol can be invariably useful, there ought to be a compliment of CPX files for it some where? Archive what you have. You can disable Xcontrol or any other Accessory by renaming ACC to ACx. The Acc files are normally stored in the Root of the boot drive, although I believe somewhere there is redirection software. Xcontrol itself uses a CPX folder / pathway to store The control panel files CPX's, and these can be selected to load from within Control Panel.

6. any ways to get better resolution than standard "out of the box" without hardware mods?
Videlity possibly. I had Blow up Hard 2 and it was very good. Is partly dependant on machine spec I believe.

7. I want to get my second falcon boxed, when ct63 and ct pci finally gets here %$&*@#$ I want to put it all in 2U rack and get external keyboard and mouse.
for mouse I have got pic converter to usb which works with standard keyboard. any way to get rid of standard keyboard and get external usc/ps2 and mouse?
Yep there are out there somewhere!

8. is IDE cdrom going to work with standard hdd driver? (I use v6)
I think possibly not, again extendos. Although it may well boot/recognise the device in the boot sequence.


thnx 4 help guys


Hope some of that did help!

Cheers
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Re: lamer's question

Postby Linuxbuilders » Sun Oct 10, 2010 12:27 pm

thnx mate, light starts blinking in the had...
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Re: lamer's question

Postby Linuxbuilders » Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:52 am

1. out of "the box" magic is using GEM, how to get rid of it and replace it with Jinnee so it gets loaded instead of GEM?
? Press the Mag!C button! :D


...here I understand reconfiguring magic to load j..e so I do not have GEM there at all. Possible or not? Do I need GEM there and J...e is just a shell or can it be run as a replacement of GEM?

Videlity possibly. I had Blow up Hard 2 and it was very good. Is partly dependant on machine spec I believe.


with this I will wait for my ctpci...ati is waiting...

Yep there are out there somewhere!


yes, we will take a spade and dig google until we find...or we die and not find at all 50/50...
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Re: lamer's question

Postby nativ » Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:18 am

Linuxbuilders"]
1. out of "the box" magic is using GEM, how to get rid of it and replace it with Jinnee so it gets loaded instead of GEM?
? Press the Mag!C button! :D


...here I understand reconfiguring magic to load j..e so I do not have GEM there at all. Possible or not? Do I need GEM there and J...e is just a shell or can it be run as a replacement of GEM?

Magic Boot?

Super Boot

There must be a Magic specific bootmanager again....... somewhere!
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Re: lamer's question

Postby FonZ » Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:42 am

7. Contact AlanH and get an Eiffel!
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Re: lamer's question

Postby wongck » Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:43 am

Linuxbuilders wrote:
1. out of "the box" magic is using GEM, how to get rid of it and replace it with Jinnee so it gets loaded instead of GEM?
? Press the Mag!C button! :D


...here I understand reconfiguring magic to load j..e so I do not have GEM there at all. Possible or not? Do I need GEM there and J...e is just a shell or can it be run as a replacement of GEM?


MagiC replaces GEM.... ,no ??
You see a 2nd reboot where it boots up Magic OS.
GEM is the OS... the internals.... as well as the VDI.... they are all replaced which explains why screen updates are faster.
You also get true pre-emptive multi tasking.
I think you press CTRL-ESC and you see a task list (sorry must be 10 year or more since I stopped using MagiC 6.x )
GEM does not have such a list..... so you are using a different OS.
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Re: lamer's question

Postby wongck » Tue Oct 12, 2010 12:03 pm

nativ wrote:Linuxbuilders"]
1. out of "the box" magic is using GEM, how to get rid of it and replace it with Jinnee so it gets loaded instead of GEM?
? Press the Mag!C button! :D


...here I understand reconfiguring magic to load j..e so I do not have GEM there at all. Possible or not? Do I need GEM there and J...e is just a shell or can it be run as a replacement of GEM?

Magic Boot?

Super Boot

There must be a Magic specific bootmanager again....... somewhere!



No.
From what I remember, it is best to put SuperBoot or Xboot infront of MagXboot (or the boot loader of MagiC).
So using your Superboot/Xboot, you can turn on or turn off MagiC (or Mint or Geneva or whatever OS you want).
In the 2nd round of booting.... Superboot/Xboot stil cones on but you just dismiss it.
MagXboot program will know that it's already in MagiC, so it just exit on it's own.
And your AUTO programs continues.
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Re: lamer's question

Postby [ProToS] » Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:28 am

the best way is to use a boot manager like stoop or xboot (boot tos or magic, metados or metaxbs etc...)

as for magic, normally it launch magxdesk and not gem, it you see the gem desktop you have
something wrong with your magic install setup or your auto folder
after that you can install Jinnee (better than the original magxdesk)

for the cd rom you can install Spin! (a small howto on this board link)

viewtopic.php?p=72811#p72811

but under magic you have to put metaxbs.prg on your auto folder (run it insted of metados.prg)
and spinmagc.xfs in your gemsys/magic/xtension folder

Code: Select all

4. Installation of the MagiC-XFS SPINMAGC.XFS
     ---------------------------------------------
     Copy METAXBS.PRG to the AUTO folder (the position in this case is 
     immaterial; it may even be called METAXBS.PRX). Copy SPINMAGC.XFS 
     into the \GEMSYS\MAGIC\XTENSION folder.
 
     After a reboot it should be possible to access the CD drive in the 
     same way as under normal TOS.
 
 
HOW IT WORKS
     METAXBS.PRG is a slimmed-down version of METADOS.PRG, from which 
     all functions for loading and linking in DOS drivers have been 
     removed. This not only saves space, but also prevents the 
     installation of the DOS drivers, which are no longer needed under 
     MiNT and MagiC. At start-up MetaXBS links in the BOS drivers as 
     usual. After this, all MetaDOS-XBIOS functions are available as 
     under MetaDOS.
 
     The XFSs also read the MetaDOS configuration file (from 
     \AUTO\CONFIG.SYS). They look for the line for installing the DOS 
     driver (now no longer used) and evaluate it themselves.
     For example:
 
     *BOS, c:\auto\cdargen.bos, A:11
 
     This line will be evaluated by MetaXBS, and, as with a normal 
     MetaDOS installation, lead to the driver CDARGEN.BOS being loaded 
     and SCSI drive 3 (8 + 3) being initialised as MetaDOS-XBIOS device 
     `A'.
 
     *DOS, c:\auto\hs-iso.dos -c128, S:A
 
     This part will now be evaluated by SPIN!. SPIN! simply looks for 
     the instruction to install a DOS driver and undertakes this 
     function automatically. For this it will recognise the file names 
     "ISO9660F.DOS" (Atari-MetaDOS) and "HS-ISO.DOS" (CD-Tool). A 
     cache-size specification as for CD-Tool (-cXXX) will be recognised 
     and evaluated. So in the above example SPIN! would install the 
     GEMDOS drive S:, access it via MetaDOS-XBIOS as device `A' and 
     reserve a 128 KB sector cache for it.



the control panel under tos is xcontrol.acc, perhaps you will need only to deactivate some cpx
and the full control panel
magic come with a control panel named Cops

better resolution without hardware mod is possible using software like videlity or centscreen/centvidel
you could have something like 800*608/256c
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Re: lamer's question

Postby Linuxbuilders » Fri Oct 15, 2010 11:40 am

cool bananas, got this working. I understand than magxdesk is necessary to have whole thing operational? I have got ndvi5 going too. So jinnee is going to be in parallel with magxdesk and I can switch between each other? right? I have noticed funny thing. Lets say that I create a folder, then copy it to desktop, then try to remove it. folder from the desktop is linking itself to drive c and then I cannot delete it. Similar situation happens with files and then I have empty files and I cannot get rid of it. any advise on it?

I see plenty post stating that people could get 640*400 in true color. I can get only 300 down in this mode. 640x240 up can be only fired up with 256 colors. Any clue why? Do I need to do some magics with nvdi to get better resolution/colors?

thnx
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Re: lamer's question

Postby wongck » Fri Oct 15, 2010 12:05 pm

Linuxbuilders wrote:cool bananas, got this working. I understand than magxdesk is necessary to have whole thing operational? I have got ndvi5 going too. So jinnee is going to be in parallel with magxdesk and I can switch between each other? right?


No.
There is only 1 desktop.
You seems to be running Jinnee as a program, which is fine if you want that.
IIRC, there was a MagX.INF file or something like that, which you modify a variable to point to Jinee executable.
Sorry i cannot remember the variable name, but may be by looking into the file, you will have a clue.
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Re: lamer's question

Postby wongck » Fri Oct 15, 2010 12:06 pm

Linuxbuilders wrote:I see plenty post stating that people could get 640*400 in true color. I can get only 300 down in this mode. 640x240 up can be only fired up with 256 colors. Any clue why? Do I need to do some magics with nvdi to get better resolution/colors?

thnx



You need Videl Inside to give you 800x600 256 colours.
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Re: lamer's question

Postby Linuxbuilders » Fri Oct 15, 2010 12:14 pm

thnx - it is just hard to imagine how much nvdi speeds up the desktop.
I have got videl inside - will fight with it tomorrow. Is the resolution dependent on the screen? I think Videl does not adjust itself to the type of monitor in use. correct?

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Re: lamer's question

Postby wongck » Fri Oct 15, 2010 12:23 pm

Linuxbuilders wrote:thnx - it is just hard to imagine how much nvdi speeds up the desktop.
I have got videl inside - will fight with it tomorrow. Is the resolution dependent on the screen? I think Videl does not adjust itself to the type of monitor in use. correct?

thnx

Yes.
It can, provided you create a profile for it.
It's not automatic.
you need know the spec of your monitor.
For my LCD, it pretty standard specs and it work immediately with the provided profiles.

Just note the position of NVDI & VI, VI needs to be last.
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Re: lamer's question

Postby Linuxbuilders » Sat Oct 16, 2010 8:49 am

thnx, one more simple question, my magic is giving me German messages, so I understand nothing. any help with it? my keyboard is talking German too... :(
thnx
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Re: lamer's question

Postby nativ » Sat Oct 16, 2010 8:52 am

Linuxbuilders wrote:thnx, one more simple question, my magic is giving me German messages, so I understand nothing. any help with it? my keyboard is talking German too... :(
thnx



Is TOS set too English?
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Re: lamer's question

Postby Ato » Sat Oct 16, 2010 9:42 am

Linuxbuilders wrote:thnx, one more simple question, my magic is giving me German messages, so I understand nothing. any help with it? my keyboard is talking German too... :(
thnx


You should try Uwe Seimet's tool BOOTCONF [http://www.seimet.de/atari/files/bootc132.zip]. It allows you to set everything imaginable. At least, I was quite surprised what it allowed you to set. :)

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Re: lamer's question

Postby Linuxbuilders » Sat Oct 16, 2010 9:47 am

>Is TOS set too English?<

I use NVRAM and set it to USA however as I can see MAgic 6.2 is German - is there any Eng patch for it?
...magic 5.x fixes the problem so this is definitely v6.2 internal lang pack...
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Re: lamer's question

Postby wongck » Sat Oct 16, 2010 11:28 am

nativ wrote:
Linuxbuilders wrote:thnx, one more simple question, my magic is giving me German messages, so I understand nothing. any help with it? my keyboard is talking German too... :(
thnx



Is TOS set too English?


TOS may be set to English or US but MagiC ain't no TOS :lol:
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Re: lamer's question

Postby wongck » Sat Oct 16, 2010 11:30 am

Linuxbuilders wrote:thnx, one more simple question, my magic is giving me German messages, so I understand nothing. any help with it? my keyboard is talking German too... :(
thnx


Yes,
of course it is... because MagiC only talks German.
You need to have English RSC for your programs including MagiXdesk.
And the keyboard... in German too.
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Re: lamer's question

Postby wongck » Sat Oct 16, 2010 11:33 am

Linuxbuilders wrote:>Is TOS set too English?<

I use NVRAM and set it to USA however as I can see MAgic 6.2 is German - is there any Eng patch for it?
...magic 5.x fixes the problem so this is definitely v6.2 internal lang pack...


IIRC, there was a English patched version because I was using it :wink:
But I cannot remember where (url) it was.... but I do not use MagiC for like 10 years now...
so I also do not have it.... well it may be in that pile of floppies.... somewhere.... :roll:
Thinking about it, I may have thrown it out of the window.....
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Re: lamer's question

Postby wongck » Sat Oct 16, 2010 11:52 am

And that keyboard, there is a keyboard mapping thingy that you ought to use for your keyboard.
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Re: lamer's question

Postby Linuxbuilders » Sun Oct 17, 2010 2:47 am

will dig my dig and try to dig it out...

next question - anyone knows good terminal software which is able to display HEX as it comes on port?

is there any better OS than magic? lets call it more human friendly?

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Re: lamer's question

Postby wongck » Sun Oct 17, 2010 3:24 am

you mean user friendly desktop or OS ?

MagiXdesk is pretty standard which extents the TOS gem desktop.
There's freeware Teradesk, which is just about the same.
Of course non-free ones like Thing, Jinnee & Ease are there but I non as eye catching as OS X or Windoze 7in terms of user friendliness.

In term of OS, there are none user friendly ones on Atari.
When you plug in a new hardware, it will not understand & user needs to have some what some knowledge to get it working.
Case in point, attach a SATAN disk and it need end-user to create a disk icon.
If the media is not partitioned/format .... it either says nothing or display a blank or in some cases a crash.
The OS will not ask if you want to reformat it.
Plug in a network device, it does not even know you just tickled it's internal parts. :mrgreen:
You have to configure everything on your own.
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