BIG Partitions but for both Mint + Magic

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BIG Partitions but for both Mint + Magic

Postby FatRakoon » Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:18 pm

Im just wondering here now...

I have just bought a 160GBHD for a Laptop and, to be honest I cant be bothered with the Laptop so Im considering using it for the Atari Falcon instead.

But, I was wondering what its limits are for MiNT & Magic

I mean here...

In theory, while FAT32 has a limit of 80GB, I could in fact partition it to take up the full capacity of the disk.
If I did, is there any known issues with that For MiNT and indeed Magic ?

I have thought about making my usual TOS Partitions on it, plus one or two larger FAT32 Partitions. Is there any issues with that?

I know that there are limits on larger partitions and whether they are TOS, DOS, or TOS+DOS Compatible. What are these limitations?
I also know that to have a TOS+DOS compatible partition, it can be the only one on the drive, so how will I make up the larger partitions if I was to also have my TOS partitions?

Again, I know I could use ext2fs and in theory this even on the Falcon has no size limits. ( or am I wrong? ) but then that wont allow me to use this extra space for Magic

Shall I take the jump and completely NOT use Magic at all? - I have tried it and Im using CF Cards but I stil keep going back to magic because I am seemingly not competent to configure MiNT right to work as I want it to, and so, I would really prefer to have this large chunk as FAT32 that both Magic and MiNT can use...

Or shall I just have as a single FAT32 Partition and STFU ?

I mean, it will be used mainly for MP3s and Media that the Falcon will play back, and indeed archival storage of the TOS Partitions.

Ok, Im going on too much now.

Can you see what I am trying to ask?
MSTE @ 16Mhz : 4MB+8MB : Magic & Jinnee
TT030 @ 32Mhz : 10+16MB : Magic & Jinnee
Falcon060 @ 95Mhz : 16+512MB : MiNT & Jinnee
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Re: BIG Partitions but for both Mint + Magic

Postby [ProToS] » Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:13 pm

as for magic >6.1 I don't see the Fat32 80GB limit

Code: Select all

OS-Release              Size
----------------------------------------------------------------
TOS 1.00 - 1.02        256 MByte
TOS 1.04 - 3.xx        512 Mbyte
TOS 4.0x              1024 MByte

MagiC / BigDOS        1024 MByte
                      2048 MByte (Compatible Dos)

MagiC 6.1       FAT32 -> Terrabyte (not MagiC 6.01)

FreeMiNT 1.15 / FAT16  2048 MByte (DOS/TOS comp. Partition)
FreeMiNT      / FAT32  ->  Terrabyte
----------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: BIG Partitions but for both Mint + Magic

Postby FatRakoon » Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:20 am

Ok, I have seeen this list somewhere ( Probably HDDriver )

Ok, so, my Partition table is currently

Card 1 = 512MB
C: = 512MB TOS

Card 2 = 16GB
D: to I: = TOS ( All at 1GB )
J: = ext2fs ( The rest )

Now, I have gone through the process with other drives, and I have used HDDriver to make the FAT32 partition but whatever I have done, its never worked out, and when it has, neither Magic, nor mint can access the partition at all.

What do I need to do?

I try F32, f32 ( Just in case ) and also a whole host of various fat / vfat $xx codes, but no code seems to be right, that will let me access files with it.

So, what code shall I use?

As a side note, both my 18GB and 36GB SCSI Drives are both single partition FAT32 Partitions ( M: + N: ) and I had to use a PC to partition them because I was never able to partition them in a way that the PCs coule then access the files. Format it on a PC and the Atari could, so thats what I did.
I dont need the PC to have access to the big HD now, I just need ( want ) massive storage.

Which code is the right one?
MSTE @ 16Mhz : 4MB+8MB : Magic & Jinnee
TT030 @ 32Mhz : 10+16MB : Magic & Jinnee
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Re: BIG Partitions but for both Mint + Magic

Postby wongck » Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:45 am

I would make the ext2fs smaller, just enough for some stuff needed by Mint like /bin /etc etc etc..
Because this partition needs fsck if something goes wrong.

Then the fat32 is more resilient/forgiving and do not need to do much if you power off suddenly.

I am not sure of the size limits of fat32 on Atari.

To make fat32 you need
1. make partition type f32 -- you already done this.
2. format it in Mint -- use mkfatfs.ttp (or something similar) on your partition. This should create the fs structures.

HTH.
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Re: BIG Partitions but for both Mint + Magic

Postby wongck » Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:50 am

BTW, I have a 20GB HDD in my falc.
And it is partitioned into 3 partition:
1. c: BGM - 1GB (max for TOS)
2. d: ext2fs - 256MB
3. e: Fat32 - 18.xx GB

The 1GB is enough for most TOS programs, as I use MiNT for most work, I store my stuff on E:.
The d: is just for some unix type stuff (like shells, man, networks etc) :mrgreen:
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Re: BIG Partitions but for both Mint + Magic

Postby FatRakoon » Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:17 am

Ever since the dawn of time, I have always had my disks on the Ataris sorted out like this :-

C: = Boot
D: = System ( Tools & Utils, plus installation files etc )
E: = Apps ( WP, SS, CAD, DTP etc etc etc)
F: = Graphics ( Drawing Apps & Pictures )
G: = Music ( CuBase, SoundTracker & Music )
H: = Programmming ( DevPac, HBasic, SToS etc )
I: = Internet ( CAB, WebPages etc etc )

Now with J: ( The ext2fs ) partition being as big as it is, is purely because D: to I: are all 1GB and sure, Im no better off with a 16GB Card than I am with an 8GB one... I am not actually using the space at all really.

mkfatfs.ttp

Yes, I have seen that. I will look at any docs about it.

Ok then hang on, I will have a play and see what happens.

Thanks.
MSTE @ 16Mhz : 4MB+8MB : Magic & Jinnee
TT030 @ 32Mhz : 10+16MB : Magic & Jinnee
Falcon060 @ 95Mhz : 16+512MB : MiNT & Jinnee
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Re: BIG Partitions but for both Mint + Magic

Postby wongck » Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:02 am

Yeap, it's personal preferences.
I really hate so many drive icons... but that's me. :wink:
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Re: BIG Partitions but for both Mint + Magic

Postby FatRakoon » Wed Jun 17, 2009 3:06 pm

I have always sided with the notion of too many eggs in one basket.

Its the same on my PC

Each partition is a whole seperate HD

C: = Windows and nothing else
D: = Programs
E: = Media
F: = Junk ( My docs etc )
M: = Downloads , Torrents etc
T: = ISO Images

All seperate drives. I kind of like this with the Atari too, but only to a point. I just want to keep thigns together better

Ok, Back to the post, I have been piddling about with a test subject.

Not that long ago I was looking into BIGDOS and making my Atari Partitions a touch bigger... I decided against this.
However, and this isa big however, btu I have done this one my TT for somethign like 3 or 4 years now and I use Magic and TOS with it and I have full access to all my partitions in both TOS and Magic ( Except thje massive ones of course ) and my G: and H: Partitions are both 2GB and they are both nearing to full and I have not had any problems at all ever with them, and thats why its kind of not going away for me on the Falcon.

I have these as test drives ( Compact Flash and Im using HD Driver 8.16 )

C: = 512MB

D: = 1000 MB ( I left teh 3 chacters blank on this one )
E: = 2000 MB ( I set this one to F32 )
F: = 876 MB ( I set this one to LNX )

Now, the plan was, that I will do a fresh install of EasyMiNT, ( and use BIGDOS to play with E: under TOS ) and hopefuuly this will let me toy about with both D: ( TOS ) and E: ( BIGDOS COMPATIBLE FAT32 )

Agreed?

However, it is completely ignoring the F32 Partition and I only have access to D: ( 1GB ) and of course the Linux ext2fs partition which is now E: and not F: ?

HD Driver is not set to ignore PC partitions.

So, I just cannot see Fat32 Partitions that are made by the Atari

Also I have found MKFS.TTP but how do I ues it? Im lost????

I cannot find any docs?

I have re-done another install, again in the same way as just now, but with a single 8GB CF Card with teh ext2fs being the rest of teh drive, but this install is complete with absolutely everything that its offering me... Its doing that right now and I hope that I will get docs in tere somewhere, but can you offer me any thign that can point me as to what I am doing wrong please?

Thanks.
MSTE @ 16Mhz : 4MB+8MB : Magic & Jinnee
TT030 @ 32Mhz : 10+16MB : Magic & Jinnee
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Re: BIG Partitions but for both Mint + Magic

Postby FatRakoon » Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:03 am

Ok, I have been doing some more tests.

I find out only today that I can have multiple FAT32 partitions on a Disk. It just needs to be WINDOWS compatible and NOT TOS+DOS Combined.

Ok, thast fine.

What I did, was simple enough... I did this to a spare 6GB HD ( Im running out of CF Cards for testing LOL )
I have a full MiNT setup on an 8GB HD at this time, and the tests were sone to a 6GB set as slave.

I created the partition as :-

1GB of Type ___ ( I left it blank )
2GB of Type $0B
3GB of Type $0B

The sizes are not of course exactly 1,2, and 3 but for ease of reading bear with me.

Now, I rebooted and as expected, I had 3 new partitions and even more wonderfully, they all opened o na double click and info showed them to be 1GB, 2GB, and 3GB

I then copied my newdesk.inf from C: onto all 3 of them, I shut down and restarted and the fiels were still there.

So now, I tok the master off, and this test slave I set to master and booted up, naturally from A: and in TOS MODE

But now it would only let me have the one Desk icon, and that would not click open, and since I have set the drive to WINDOWS then Im now assuming that even though I left the type alone, that it would in fact be a DOS / Windows FAT16 partition then, and so I cannot boot from it?

However, when I then run HD Driver again, I dinf that the 2GB and the 3GB are no longer on the disk? Bad disk?

---------


Ok, so in conclusion, I have found out :-

1 - That in order to boot from the disk, I must be using a TOS only Disk
2 - I can have multiple partitions on a Disk providing it is TOS or Windows but not combined.
3 - If I want to have my cake and eat it, I must use 2 drives at least?

If so, then I might as well stick to the Compact flash method.

I have also checked out my TT and that hasa 1.9GB FAT32 Partition as G: that I use with CuBase Score and SoundTrackers just fine, and it is very nearly full, way past its 511MB Barrier set by TOS and way past the 1GB Barrier too. However, all other Partitions ( C: to I: ) are all standard TOS

All I want to do is have the same parttiioning as that, but withan extra ext2fs partition and a massive FAT32 one too. So why am I unable to do it on the falcon?
MSTE @ 16Mhz : 4MB+8MB : Magic & Jinnee
TT030 @ 32Mhz : 10+16MB : Magic & Jinnee
Falcon060 @ 95Mhz : 16+512MB : MiNT & Jinnee
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Re: BIG Partitions but for both Mint + Magic

Postby wongck » Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:03 pm

FatRakoon wrote:Each partition is a whole seperate HD

C: = Windows and nothing else
D: = Programs
E: = Media
F: = Junk ( My docs etc )
M: = Downloads , Torrents etc
T: = ISO Images


My PC, also each partition is a separate HDD
C: windows + programs
D: my important data
E: Games + downloads
F: swap + junk

I ghost my C: so if any disaster happens, I am back in business less than 15 minutes. :wink:
I backup my D: as it contains my important data (what I deemed as important).
Both E: and F: are not important and not backup.
E: is totally fragmented due to me installing games, uninstalling games and installing more games and uninstalling.... you get the picture.
So I did not mix this on to my c: drive. :lol:

FatRakoon wrote:However, it is completely ignoring the F32 Partition and I only have access to D: ( 1GB ) and of course the Linux ext2fs partition which is now E: and not F: ?

May be it did not format the partition, and Mint does not have a structure to read information from.

FatRakoon wrote:Also I have found MKFS.TTP but how do I ues it? Im lost????
I cannot find any docs?

Just do a MKFS.TTP E:
This assume E: is the one with partition F32 type.
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Re: BIG Partitions but for both Mint + Magic

Postby wongck » Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:29 pm

Woooh Long post.... sorry I get confused :?

FatRakoon wrote:Ok, so in conclusion, I have found out :-

1 - That in order to boot from the disk, I must be using a TOS only Disk
2 - I can have multiple partitions on a Disk providing it is TOS or Windows but not combined.
3 - If I want to have my cake and eat it, I must use 2 drives at least?


TOS needs a BGM partition to 1st read from. That's your boot disk.
I think HDDriver does mention that only 1 partition allowed for DOS compatible partition. You should RTFM.
You want to swap Harddisk between Atari & Windows? Then your CF must be 1 DOS partition.
I think it will be slower to access a HDD that is DOS compatible because it does byte swapping.
Something to do with Big Indian & Small Indian chief.

I know it is spelled endian. :lol:
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Re: BIG Partitions but for both Mint + Magic

Postby FatRakoon » Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:50 pm

Ok, thanks for that...
As long as it can see the partition then simply including the Drive letter, it will make the FileSystem... Cool.

Ok, one more thing then before I go off...

This is the setup that I would like to do with the 160GBHD I have here...

Make these partitions...

C: = 512MB ( This of course MUST be TOS )
D: TO I: = 2GB ( I can use BIGDOS when in TOS Mode )
J: = the rest of the drive as FAT32 ( Dont need access when in TOS MODE )

I have done this on the TT and its fine. I originally used BIGDOS to take the TT over the 512MB Limit but now I have re-done my partitions and G: is 2GB with only about 200MB Free and its fine... Has been for a while now.

However,

I cannot seem to be able to have the ability to boot from the drive, if I set the Drive to WINDOWS
I cannot seem to be able to write FAT32 Partitions if its a TOS Drive
and I cannot have more than one partition if its TOS + WINDOW Combined?

Catch 22 for me it seems?

How have you managed it?

I have done a few partitioning setups in the past and used a PC t do it, but its not workign for me this time round?


ADDITION:

I missed the last post so we crossed wires.

RTFM... I wish I could but I no longer have it.

I also know that single partition for reading on both TOS & Windows. I have known that one for some years.

Its the mixing that Im not quite up on for the reasons I posted.
MSTE @ 16Mhz : 4MB+8MB : Magic & Jinnee
TT030 @ 32Mhz : 10+16MB : Magic & Jinnee
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Re: BIG Partitions but for both Mint + Magic

Postby wongck » Fri Jun 19, 2009 2:14 am

I know you want to mix, but don't. Things gets screwly.
MS loves to take the mickey out of us because one day they will change something & it will not work. Best case is it fails and your data are still there. (they did this to Samba :-) )
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Re: BIG Partitions but for both Mint + Magic

Postby wongck » Fri Jun 19, 2009 3:01 am

FatRakoon wrote:C: = 512MB ( This of course MUST be TOS )
D: TO I: = 2GB ( I can use BIGDOS when in TOS Mode )
J: = the rest of the drive as FAT32 ( Dont need access when in TOS MODE )

I have done this on the TT and its fine. I originally used BIGDOS to take the TT over the 512MB Limit but now I have re-done my partitions and G: is 2GB with only about 200MB Free and its fine... Has been for a while now.

Should be working for falc.
FatRakoon wrote:I cannot seem to be able to have the ability to boot from the drive, if I set the Drive to WINDOWS

Not sure if Drive set to Windows have the same structure that TOS understands. IIRC there are similarities but there are also differences.
FatRakoon wrote:I cannot seem to be able to write FAT32 Partitions if its a TOS Drive

TOS don't understand Fat32. So it should not write or read from it.
FatRakoon wrote:and I cannot have more than one partition if its TOS + WINDOW Combined?
Catch 22 for me it seems?
How have you managed it?
I have done a few partitioning setups in the past and used a PC t do it, but its not workign for me this time round?


I do all my partitioning on the Falc. Infact i remove the PC partitions if any (I use old notebook HDD that have some windows partition).
Here's what I normally do.
1. boot from floppy & run HDDriver, to detect the HDD with no partition.
2. create partitions via HDDRutils
    1. 1GB BGM
    2. 256MB raw <---- note I don't use LNX because of legacy (15 yrs ago they have not define LNX yet!! & Minix use raw as well) :P
    3. 18.xxGB F32
3. Reboot from floppy & run HDDdriver, detect HDD & the 3 partitions as C:, D:, E:
4. Install drives on desktop, you get 3 drives.
5. create auto boot on C: -- that's why you need a BGM because TOS understands this only.
6. Reboot from C:, install drives (again), save desktop (so next time, the drives are already there).
At this point, I cannot access D: & E: because they have no filesystem structure yet!!
7. Restore from my backup of entire c: drive (this includes all my proggies + Mint setup :-) )
My Mint on C: drives include basic shell, utils and some filesystem creation tools.
8. Reboot from C:, now I can select Mint from my Boot selector (because they are all restored!!)
9. Mint runs but complains there is no EXT2FS (because I have stuff point there but it is not created yet).
10. Open my TCSH (yes I hate Bash) and run my filesystem creation tools to make EXT2FS and FAT32.
11. Reboot again, select Mint (and Mint still complain about EXT2FAS because it cannot find the files it needs there)
12. Restore my D: drive now -- being EXT2FS, I use tar because the permissions are all restored as well.
13. Reboot, everything OK including the Network running.
14. Done.

OK so you may not get to point 7 because you may not have a setup like mine. :wink:
Also I do not use easyMint. Really cannot comment on it because I built Mint manually (I think you see in other topics).

Anyway, hope this helps. :lol:
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Re: BIG Partitions but for both Mint + Magic

Postby wongck » Fri Jun 19, 2009 3:09 am

Oh yeah. I remember now that I have a spare backup using 40GB HDD.
Same partitions as for the 20GB except the FAT32 is 38.xx GB.
I used the same method as mention by me and took half an hour to complete.

I know it does not help you much because it does not mix Windows & TOS partitions. Sorry.
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Re: BIG Partitions but for both Mint + Magic

Postby FatRakoon » Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:01 pm

Nah, its just getting on my pip now.

I should in theory be able to have a partition thats about 2GB that I can access in both MiNT and in TOS, providing I use BIGDOS when in TOS mode.

But I just cannot seem to be able to do it?

Sod it.

The TT has done it just fine, and so I have had the TT and Falcon side by side and I have exemined how I did it on the TT and I can even reproduce the results on the TT just fine.

But doing the same thing on the Falcon I just fail to open the drive even though it shows it.

Im now putting it down to another Atari "Feature".

I will just have to be a little more conservative with my Drive space and use the larger 140GB FAT32 Partition for storage of what I dont need...

Many thanks for the help... I have saved the pages so I can come back to it rather than post again and some time I iwll have another go, but not right now.

Thanks.
MSTE @ 16Mhz : 4MB+8MB : Magic & Jinnee
TT030 @ 32Mhz : 10+16MB : Magic & Jinnee
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Re: BIG Partitions but for both Mint + Magic

Postby wongck » Sat Jun 20, 2009 3:17 pm

FatRakoon wrote:The TT has done it just fine, and so I have had the TT and Falcon side by side and I have exemined how I did it on the TT and I can even reproduce the results on the TT just fine.
But doing the same thing on the Falcon I just fail to open the drive even though it shows it.


Have you tried putting the IDE onto your SCSI-IDE adapter and partition on the TT. Then transfer the IDE to the Falc and see if it works?

BigDOS should work for both Falc & TT. But I have not tried it.
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Re: BIG Partitions but for both Mint + Magic

Postby wongck » Sat Jun 20, 2009 3:19 pm

wongck wrote:
FatRakoon wrote:The TT has done it just fine, and so I have had the TT and Falcon side by side and I have exemined how I did it on the TT and I can even reproduce the results on the TT just fine.
But doing the same thing on the Falcon I just fail to open the drive even though it shows it.


Have you tried putting the IDE onto your SCSI-IDE adapter and partition on the TT. Then transfer the IDE to the Falc and see if it works?
I don't know if any format translation are performed by the SCSI-IDE.
BigDOS should work for both Falc & TT. But I have not tried it.
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Re: BIG Partitions but for both Mint + Magic

Postby FatRakoon » Sat Jun 20, 2009 5:35 pm

BIGDOS comes in 2 programs... One is the normal one and the other is for Falcons.

I suppose the Flacon one has IDE capability, I dont know?

The trouble is that BIGDOS is so, so fussy with the paritions

There is some massive incompatibility with something along the lines.

I feel that BIGDOS + HDDRIVER + CT63 is not right when mixed

I say this because I can happily use BIGDOS with HD DRIVER and the CT63 however, if BIGDOS says that the Partition is not quite right and it asks to change a certain byte to $FF then the system crashes.

It is fine if I dont let it and its fine if I use 030 mode but not 060 mode.

That crash has happened loads of times but yet it needs to change even C: which is 100% TOS compatible is it not?

Annoying.

Putting the TT to work with the partitioning? - Good call didnt think about that... Hang on, I will let you know.
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Re: BIG Partitions but for both Mint + Magic

Postby wongck » Sun Jun 21, 2009 3:10 pm

BigDOS been around for long time. I did not use it.
Anyway I went to the site http://rainer-seitel.onlinehome.de/bigdos.html to take a look and see if it any use for me.
I saw a disturbing sentence "(With the ACSI and IDE interface only 1 Mbyte hard disks can be accessed.)"
I think he means 1GB instead of 1 MB. :lol:
So what does this mean? Falcon normal TOS can already access 1GB. So what's the use? :(
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Re: BIG Partitions but for both Mint + Magic

Postby FatRakoon » Sun Jun 21, 2009 3:48 pm

Ah, so maybe that explains why the TT is fine for everything and the Falcon is not?
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Re: BIG Partitions but for both Mint + Magic

Postby wongck » Mon Jun 22, 2009 2:41 pm

Hmmm... not sure.
Ppera on the other board should know.
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Re: BIG Partitions but for both Mint + Magic

Postby FatRakoon » Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:12 pm

Sorry, no its not a question more of a thought...

I should not have put the the question mark perhaps, but Im not that worried.
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Re: BIG Partitions but for both Mint + Magic

Postby joska » Tue Jun 23, 2009 1:56 pm

FatRakoon wrote:Now, I have gone through the process with other drives, and I have used HDDriver to make the FAT32 partition but whatever I have done, its never worked out, and when it has, neither Magic, nor mint can access the partition at all.


There is a bug in HD-Driver which creates non-standard FAT32-partitions. It was fixed in the latest version, so unless you have this you must use mkfatfs.ttp from MiNT to create FAT32-partitions.
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Re: BIG Partitions but for both Mint + Magic

Postby wongck » Tue Jun 23, 2009 2:54 pm

joska wrote:There is a bug in HD-Driver which creates non-standard FAT32-partitions. It was fixed in the latest version, so unless you have this you must use mkfatfs.ttp from MiNT to create FAT32-partitions.


This explains why I needed to use mkfatfs previously.
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