Incompatible IDE devices -- it is possible?

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mikro
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Incompatible IDE devices -- it is possible?

Postby mikro » Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:28 pm

Hi,

I've got strange problem and I'm not sure if I'm crazy or it's known issue and period.

I have 3 IDE devices -- one 2.5" HDD, one 3.5" CF/SD/MMC/SM reader and one 3.5" HDD. I want to connect two of these devices to IDE in Falcon, however, I found strange problem:

1. When I connect 2.5" HDD and 3.5" HDD, everything is OK, master and slave works good.
2. When I connect 3.5" HDD and 3.5" CF reader, everything is good either.
3. When I connect 2.5" HDD and 3.5" CF reader, I can't enum CF reader.

To point 3) -- when HD Driver boots (from that 2.5" HDD), it's set for looking after 2 IDE devices and reports just that HDD... but -- in configuration tool, device check, I see also that second IDE device -- CF reader. What is strange -- when I do device check again, it disappears and don't appear again until the next reboot. I've tried another device (as replacement for CF reader), cables, 2.5"<->3.5" interface combinations and still the same result.

It's somehow possible that these devices don't like talking to each other? I mean especially that 2.5" HDD, could it be it's somehow more "aggressive" and only some devices are able to work with it in IDE chain? Or hd driver doesn't support certain feature which appears just in situations like this?

It's true I didn't try it on PC (I should probably). Do you have any ideas? :)

ppera

Re: Incompatible IDE devices -- it is possible?

Postby ppera » Sat Jul 12, 2008 10:11 am

Possible is that devices wont work well together...
But more likely is just that CF card works unreliable on Falcon. That unreliability may happen only when it is in 2 drive combination, but may happen even it it is alone on IDE. Even longer cable may causing troubles, especially with CF cards.

simbo

Re: Incompatible IDE devices -- it is possible?

Postby simbo » Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:54 pm

be more sure of your cables first
it must be
machine >>master{id0}>>slave{id1}
also load the driver from floppy only {use ctrl alt?? to abort any hdd loading}
then set it up again now save it to hdd { i usualy delete the copy on hdd then cold boot the machine again this time from floppy}

the driver on hdd must also know another device is there and where it is in the chain or it will fail to see it
you maybe need to set hddriver to reset on init and reset on a reset etc tick boxes
reboot back to the floppy copy once you adjust it BY POWRING OFF not reset
then install hddriver to the hdd from the fixed floppy copy

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Re: Incompatible IDE devices -- it is possible?

Postby alexh » Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:20 pm

We've noticed that some of the latest PATA drives, particularly CF cards are getting less and less compatible in non EXT PIO modes. Particularly when using ultra slow ATA0 timing.

I guess they just are not testing them like they used to.

The latest kingston CF cards are terrible.

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Re: Incompatible IDE devices -- it is possible?

Postby techie_alison » Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:37 pm

Could try a microdrive if you're looking for compatiability. They're a bit slower and more delicate than CF cards though.

Another issue with CF cards is that there's a flag which is set on them, to mark them as Non-Removable-Drives. By default they are Removable-Drives. XP picks up on that fact.

Sandisk CF cards can be switched to either. But you need the DOS application to change them (which Sandisk stopped supplying a while back). I have it here. It *can* and *does* make a difference. I've noticed that a couple of old PC's, 286's, 386's, don't like CF Removable Drives as an ATA IDE. But they will boot from the Sandisk's with the Non-Removable-Drive flag set.
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ppera

Re: Incompatible IDE devices -- it is possible?

Postby ppera » Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:25 pm

techie_alison wrote:Could try a microdrive if you're looking for compatiability. They're a bit slower and more delicate than CF cards though.

Another issue with CF cards is that there's a flag which is set on them, to mark them as Non-Removable-Drives. By default they are Removable-Drives. XP picks up on that fact.

Sandisk CF cards can be switched to either. But you need the DOS application to change them (which Sandisk stopped supplying a while back). I have it here. It *can* and *does* make a difference. I've noticed that a couple of old PC's, 286's, 386's, don't like CF Removable Drives as an ATA IDE. But they will boot from the Sandisk's with the Non-Removable-Drive flag set.



There is a solution for XP that handle CF cards as removable drives. Was thread here about... Not so simple, in any case.
Can you post that Sandisk flag setter? It will help...

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Re: Incompatible IDE devices -- it is possible?

Postby techie_alison » Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:33 pm

I'll send it to you... It's another file on the receiving end of one of Sandisk's purges with them throwing their legal weight around. Similiar situation to the SD card specifications.. You can get it, but it's hidden away in the furthest corners of the Internet.
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Re: Incompatible IDE devices -- it is possible?

Postby puppetmark » Thu Aug 07, 2008 7:25 pm

techie_alison wrote:I'll send it to you... It's another file on the receiving end of one of Sandisk's purges with them throwing their legal weight around. Similiar situation to the SD card specifications.. You can get it, but it's hidden away in the furthest corners of the Internet.


Which one do you have? I am looking for hdcfwchg.com and I can't find it anywhere. I did find atcfwchg.com but I need the older one.

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Re: Incompatible IDE devices -- it is possible?

Postby CopperCAT » Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:21 pm

techie_alison wrote:I'll send it to you... It's another file on the receiving end of one of Sandisk's purges with them throwing their legal weight around. Similiar situation to the SD card specifications.. You can get it, but it's hidden away in the furthest corners of the Internet.


I have the same problem with both a Sandisk 512Mbyte and a newer Transcend 2GB card. Could you send that utility to me, or even better, post it here?

Thanks
Klaas

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Re: Incompatible IDE devices -- it is possible?

Postby Shredder11 » Mon Sep 15, 2008 2:35 pm

So is this file required for the more recent CF and SD cards? My cards were bought between 2003 and 2005 (mainly 256MB and 1GB), with one additional 2GB SD card bought last year.

ppera

Re: Incompatible IDE devices -- it is possible?

Postby ppera » Mon Sep 15, 2008 3:52 pm

Shredder11 wrote:So is this file required for the more recent CF and SD cards? My cards were bought between 2003 and 2005 (mainly 256MB and 1GB), with one additional 2GB SD card bought last year.


It is just one way to override WinXP limitations. But mentioned file is only for Sandisk CF cards (maybe for SD too, I can not check).
Win XP will see only first partition from removable storage devices, regardless from how 'recent' they are.
But we discussed here some SW (registry) hack to override this XP limit. Try with search on forum...


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