Backward III and NVDI

Hardware, coding, music, graphic and various applications

Moderators: Mug UK, moondog/.tSCc., [ProToS], lp, Moderator Team

User avatar
bjjones37
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 319
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:11 pm
Location: USA

Backward III and NVDI

Postby bjjones37 » Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:59 pm

After a five year break I am back on my Falcon and looking to optimize it's performance. Backward III really helps with app compatibility. It did take me awhile to figure out that some of the hotkeys were reversed from the documentation on my machine at least. Specifically the cache controls. I also thought that Warp9 did not work but then realized it only works with the ST Compatible resolutions.

My question is will NVDI work with Backward 2 or III ? Or are they just not compatible with each other? Is there any other Falcon and Backward compatible screen accelerator?
Courtesy is not an option.

joska
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 4376
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:55 pm
Location: Florø, Norway
Contact:

Re: Backward III and NVDI

Postby joska » Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:43 pm

What kind of applications do you have in mind?
Jo Even

VanillaMiNT - Firebee - Falcon060 - Milan060 - Falcon040 - MIST - Mega ST - STM - STE - Amiga 600 - Sharp MZ700 - MSX - Amstrad CPC - C64

User avatar
bjjones37
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 319
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:11 pm
Location: USA

Re: Backward III and NVDI

Postby bjjones37 » Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:04 pm

Word processing and spreadsheets.
Courtesy is not an option.

User avatar
shoggoth
Nature
Nature
Posts: 970
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 9:21 am
Location: Halmstad, Sweden
Contact:

Re: Backward III and NVDI

Postby shoggoth » Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:06 pm

Bizarre.
Ain't no space like PeP-space.

joska
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 4376
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:55 pm
Location: Florø, Norway
Contact:

Re: Backward III and NVDI

Postby joska » Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:29 pm

There is absolutely no need for Backwards in this case.
Jo Even

VanillaMiNT - Firebee - Falcon060 - Milan060 - Falcon040 - MIST - Mega ST - STM - STE - Amiga 600 - Sharp MZ700 - MSX - Amstrad CPC - C64

User avatar
bjjones37
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 319
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:11 pm
Location: USA

Re: Backward III and NVDI

Postby bjjones37 » Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:06 pm

Let me rephrase my question. Can NVDI work with Backwards?
Courtesy is not an option.

User avatar
Eero Tamminen
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1946
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 1:11 pm

Re: Backward III and NVDI

Postby Eero Tamminen » Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:42 pm

I have no idea, but there's been a lot change between different NVDI version, so you'll probably need to state which NVDI version you're interested about.

joska
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 4376
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:55 pm
Location: Florø, Norway
Contact:

Re: Backward III and NVDI

Postby joska » Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:53 pm

Not sure if anybody has tried it. Backwards was supposed to be used to increase compatibility with old games, and you don't run NVDI in that case. Exactly which applications do you want to run? I would be surprised if Backwards is needed.
Jo Even

VanillaMiNT - Firebee - Falcon060 - Milan060 - Falcon040 - MIST - Mega ST - STM - STE - Amiga 600 - Sharp MZ700 - MSX - Amstrad CPC - C64

mikro
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 1992
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2005 11:11 am
Location: Kosice, Slovakia
Contact:

Re: Backward III and NVDI

Postby mikro » Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:40 am

Or to reverse joska's statement: if you have an app/game which needs Backward, it's very unlikely NVDI is going to have an effect. It accelerates VDI primitives drawing, what is something which is certainly not used in any non-GEM app/game.

User avatar
Eero Tamminen
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1946
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 1:11 pm

Re: Backward III and NVDI

Postby Eero Tamminen » Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:45 am

I assume these are intended for different programs, NVDI for GEM programs, and Backward for older games. If they don't interfere with each other, one can have both NVDI & Backward enabled in AUTO folder and doesn't need to reboot to run another type of a program. This assumes that game exits cleanly, but many do.

mikro
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 1992
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2005 11:11 am
Location: Kosice, Slovakia
Contact:

Re: Backward III and NVDI

Postby mikro » Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:02 pm

Eero: that would be an extremely inefficient setup. Backward disables the cache, sets the CPU frequency to 8 MHz etc. Slow VDI is then the least of your troubles. :)

Plus, I'm not aware of many ST games which cleanly exit. Maybe the new era games like Obsession but the classics from the 80s/90s? No way.

User avatar
wongck
Ultimate Atarian
Ultimate Atarian
Posts: 12704
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 2:09 pm
Location: Far East
Contact:

Re: Backward III and NVDI

Postby wongck » Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:43 am

From the readme of backward 3, in additional to the obvious hardware settings it mentions that it can GEM off.
So if your configuration does that, then it will affect NVDI, I guess. :lol:

You can also read the code and see what are the 20+ BIOS fixes that it applies and make a guess if NVDI is affected.
Comments are in French, and I don't understand French so......
My Stuff: FB/Falcon CT63 CTPCI ATI RTL8139 USB 512MB 30GB HDD CF HxC_SD/ TT030 68882 4+32MB 520MB Nova/ 520STFM 4MB Tos206 SCSI
Shared SCSI Bus:ScsiLink ethernet, 9GB HDD,SD-reader @ http://phsw.atari.org
My Atari stuff for sale - click here for list

User avatar
Eero Tamminen
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1946
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 1:11 pm

Re: Backward III and NVDI

Postby Eero Tamminen » Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:29 pm

mikro wrote:Eero: that would be an extremely inefficient setup. Backward disables the cache, sets the CPU frequency to 8 MHz etc. Slow VDI is then the least of your troubles. :)


OK. Maybe it's then just to have NVDI speeding the Backward slowness up, so that Falcon desktop is a bit nicer/faster to use (for starting the games from HD)? :-)

User avatar
bjjones37
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 319
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2004 1:11 pm
Location: USA

Re: Backward III and NVDI

Postby bjjones37 » Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:40 am

Actually I have applications that only function in the presence of Backwards. Backwards can be fully configured for the various options of 8/16MHz, data cache on/off, instruction cache on/off, TOS patched, Gem On/Off. Combined with XBoot3, it makes for a highly configurable and more compatible Falcon system. I was particularly hoping to use the font system built in to try out NVDI with some of my apps that required Backwards. G+Plus refuses to work at all. I already have some 24 different configuration setups for XBoot3 depending on what software I wish to run. And then of course I can configure the OS options in Backwards for individual apps. And yes, it is kind of nice to have NVDI speed up the desktop a bit. Neither QuickST nor Warp9 worked, even though I had a Falcon specific Warp9 loader. I even setup multiple Newdesk.inf files for different resolutions at boot up in XBoot3.

I'm no AL programmer, but maybe some one here can figure it out from the source code.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Courtesy is not an option.

User avatar
wongck
Ultimate Atarian
Ultimate Atarian
Posts: 12704
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 2:09 pm
Location: Far East
Contact:

Re: Backward III and NVDI

Postby wongck » Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:10 am

why not just tell what applications are those?
My Stuff: FB/Falcon CT63 CTPCI ATI RTL8139 USB 512MB 30GB HDD CF HxC_SD/ TT030 68882 4+32MB 520MB Nova/ 520STFM 4MB Tos206 SCSI
Shared SCSI Bus:ScsiLink ethernet, 9GB HDD,SD-reader @ http://phsw.atari.org
My Atari stuff for sale - click here for list


Social Media

     

Return to “Professionals”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests