Daimakaimura (Ghouls 'n Ghosts) for the Atari STE

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Re: Daimakaimura (Ghouls 'n Ghosts) for the Atari STE

Postby EvilFranky » Wed May 03, 2017 8:15 pm

Really impressed Anima.

So the reduction to 16 colours doesn't seem bad for the sprites so far, will be interesting to see them with a background layer.

What frame rate are you targeting? I think I seen a couple of slow downs in the video, don't think anyone was expecting 60fps though :wink:

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Re: Daimakaimura (Ghouls 'n Ghosts) for the Atari STE

Postby CiH » Wed May 03, 2017 8:40 pm

This looks very promising indeed!
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Re: Daimakaimura (Ghouls 'n Ghosts) for the Atari STE

Postby dlfrsilver » Wed May 03, 2017 8:43 pm

EvilFranky wrote:Really impressed Anima.

So the reduction to 16 colours doesn't seem bad for the sprites so far, will be interesting to see them with a background layer.

What frame rate are you targeting? I think I seen a couple of slow downs in the video, don't think anyone was expecting 60fps though :wink:


To me the speed is very good !!! It's smoother than most games i've seen until now on ST or STE :)
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Re: Daimakaimura (Ghouls 'n Ghosts) for the Atari STE

Postby EvilFranky » Wed May 03, 2017 8:48 pm

Yes it does run smoothly. But I seen a couple of drops in frame rate, so just wondered if it was going to be hard coded to 2 or 3 vbl to keep the game play consistent.

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Re: Daimakaimura (Ghouls 'n Ghosts) for the Atari STE

Postby MM41 » Wed May 03, 2017 9:28 pm

The speed looks very good ! , great

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Re: Daimakaimura (Ghouls 'n Ghosts) for the Atari STE

Postby Estrayk » Thu May 04, 2017 12:27 am

Really impressive 8O
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Re: Daimakaimura (Ghouls 'n Ghosts) for the Atari STE

Postby TheNameOfTheGame » Thu May 04, 2017 1:37 am

Super impressive considering the version of the game we originally got back in the day lol. (which I liked btw)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ha6HeyI2BI

Yes, I know this new version is for the STE but just goes to show how much of an upgrade it is.

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Re: Daimakaimura (Ghouls 'n Ghosts) for the Atari STE

Postby jury » Thu May 04, 2017 4:28 am

EvilFranky wrote:Yes it does run smoothly. But I seen a couple of drops in frame rate, so just wondered if it was going to be hard coded to 2 or 3 vbl to keep the game play consistent.


I guess its rather because this is the first, unoptimised preview, and later on there will be no need for this kind of hard code consistency ( at least I hope :) )

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Re: Daimakaimura (Ghouls 'n Ghosts) for the Atari STE

Postby Anima » Thu May 04, 2017 7:49 am

Thanks all.

It's indeed a first sprite integration test version. Technical details will follow soon.

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Re: Daimakaimura (Ghouls 'n Ghosts) for the Atari STE

Postby Estrayk » Thu May 04, 2017 2:05 pm

Anima wrote:Thanks all.

It's indeed a first sprite integration test version. Technical details will follow soon.


In the end, are you going to focus on a STe version or for Falcon?
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Re: Daimakaimura (Ghouls 'n Ghosts) for the Atari STE

Postby Anima » Thu May 04, 2017 3:40 pm

Estrayk wrote:In the end, are you going to focus on a STe version or for Falcon?

The Atari STE has the highest priority but it seems that it'll be a tough callenge to get it working on it. Especially the memory requrement is quite high.

Unfortunately the code doesn't run on the Falcon as is and needs some additional work mainly due to some nasty code "tricks" which the MC68030 doesn't like at all. However, the main goal is to have it running on both machines in the end.

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Re: Daimakaimura (Ghouls 'n Ghosts) for the Atari STE

Postby dlfrsilver » Thu May 04, 2017 4:36 pm

Anima wrote:
Estrayk wrote:In the end, are you going to focus on a STe version or for Falcon?

The Atari STE has the highest priority but it seems that it'll be a tough callenge to get it working on it. Especially the memory requrement is quite high.

Unfortunately the code doesn't run on the Falcon as is and needs some additional work mainly due to some nasty code "tricks" which the MC68030 doesn't like at all. However, the main goal is to have it running on both machines in the end.


The main problem is that this game was coded with huge memory requirements.

It should run with 2mb of ram if each level (backgrounds+sprites+music+sfx) are splitted. If you use a 16 colors palette, the game should behave correctly on STE. We all know 60 fps is out of question, but 30 fps would be really cool :)

the CPS game are mostly known for the huge memory needed to stored the very colored graphics. But out of this, i don't see anything that nasty.
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Re: Daimakaimura (Ghouls 'n Ghosts) for the Atari STE

Postby Anima » Mon May 08, 2017 9:46 am

Update: a short video showing the gameplay (sprites only):


https://youtu.be/Pd4_h2klGUM


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Re: Daimakaimura (Ghouls 'n Ghosts) for the Atari STE

Postby mpattonm » Mon May 08, 2017 6:12 pm

Incredible progress in such a short time!

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Re: Daimakaimura (Ghouls 'n Ghosts) for the Atari STE

Postby dlfrsilver » Mon May 08, 2017 8:16 pm

Fabulous !!! This means that either the STE or the Amiga can deal with the arcade game logic, minding you lower the colors :D !
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Re: Daimakaimura (Ghouls 'n Ghosts) for the Atari STE

Postby MM41 » Mon May 08, 2017 8:38 pm

It makes good, beautifull work !!!

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Re: Daimakaimura (Ghouls 'n Ghosts) for the Atari STE

Postby Anima » Mon May 08, 2017 9:11 pm

Approaching the first boss using the invincibility cheat. Please note the RAM size of the emulated Atari STE. Unfortunately the sprites alone still consume up to 10 MB of RAM.


https://youtu.be/7kfjVosxTq8


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Re: Daimakaimura (Ghouls 'n Ghosts) for the Atari STE

Postby MM41 » Mon May 08, 2017 10:03 pm

Wow, it's a big big boss :D ,
Next challenge put 14mb into 4mb 8O
Good luck

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Re: Daimakaimura (Ghouls 'n Ghosts) for the Atari STE

Postby Estrayk » Mon May 08, 2017 10:48 pm

The framerate seems very good with the final boss, but there's a problem with the memory. How to fit 10mb. of gfx data in 4mb.?
Anima, What you do think? Do we forget an STe version and focus on the Falcon 14Mb?
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Re: Daimakaimura (Ghouls 'n Ghosts) for the Atari STE

Postby CiH » Mon May 08, 2017 11:04 pm

Or do as dlfrsilver suggests, and split the graphics data into the individual levels to load in only what you need at that point.
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Re: Daimakaimura (Ghouls 'n Ghosts) for the Atari STE

Postby Anima » Tue May 09, 2017 5:38 am

dlfrsilver wrote:Fabulous !!! This means that either the STE or the Amiga can deal with the arcade game logic, minding you lower the colors :D !

Well, sort of. The CPS1 machines are clocked at 10 MHz. This version of Ghouls 'n Ghosts even runs at 12 MHz. That was chosen with purpose since the handling of the tile data is quite a heavy task for the MC68000 for itself. Now consider a system which is not able to cope with this workload and has to sacrifice even more CPU power for drawing sprites on top of that. What would the result look like? Well, that's the main question and it'll decide between a "good" and "bad" port. However, I think we're on a good way.

Estrayk wrote:The framerate seems very good with the final boss, but there's a problem with the memory. How to fit 10mb. of gfx data in 4mb.?
Anima, What you do think? Do we forget an STe version and focus on the Falcon 14Mb?

No worries here: there will be a Falcon version for sure. As I've written before that the code needs some changes but besides that a Falcon only port would be "way too easy". :D

CiH wrote:Or do as dlfrsilver suggests, and split the graphics data into the individual levels to load in only what you need at that point.

Yes, that's the only way to get it work on the Atari STE. The main problem here is to find out which sprites are related to a certain level and which are not. Also there are sprites which will never be flipped and can be omitted to be stored as well. So in conclusion there are some problems left where I don't have an appropriate answer yet. However, I still think that the Atari STE can do it. ;)

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Re: Daimakaimura (Ghouls 'n Ghosts) for the Atari STE

Postby dlfrsilver » Tue May 09, 2017 8:36 am

yes the STE can do it :) Strider CPS1 should even work with only 2mb of ram !

It has to be noted that the CPS1 version needs 16mb of ram in emulation on a PC.

8mb of VRAM in fact, but since it's doubled for double buffering, you add 8mb of ram more, so 16mb.

Just to illustrate, Final Fight needs 12mb of ram.

So hell yes, the problem here is that i'm afraid Anima will need to go deeper in the ressourcing of the game code, in order to be able to cut the whole code in chunks......

That's the problem with those unified huge arcade programs, since there's no loading, the coders just made a big code rom.

On the console ports, everything is splited in files. On the saturn capcom collection CD where Ghouls'n'Ghost is, that's how it's done.

The Falcon can do it, but it's less fun that making a version running on STE, as it's more challenging.
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Re: Daimakaimura (Ghouls 'n Ghosts) for the Atari STE

Postby dlfrsilver » Tue May 09, 2017 8:51 am

CiH wrote:Or do as dlfrsilver suggests, and split the graphics data into the individual levels to load in only what you need at that point.

Yes, that's the only way to get it work on the Atari STE. The main problem here is to find out which sprites are related to a certain level and which are not. Also there are sprites which will never be flipped and can be omitted to be stored as well. So in conclusion there are some problems left where I don't have an appropriate answer yet. However, I still think that the Atari STE can do it. ;)[/quote]

Well this remains a not too overly complicated game from the sprites point. Just playing the whole game and note which sprites are present in level X.

then isolate all the sprite frames, and save as RAW graphics. And now, just load any sprite file as requested.

5 levels in this game, 10mb for sprites ? 10/5 = 2mb for sprites. How much ram is needed for backgrounds/foregrounds ?
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Re: Daimakaimura (Ghouls 'n Ghosts) for the Atari STE

Postby calimero » Tue May 09, 2017 1:39 pm

Anima wrote:Here's a small demo (ST floppy image) of the sprite code to try on your Atari STE. It shows some floating sprites from a different game on a background and no: it doesn't run at 50 fps but I think the performance is still ok.

Image

Looks really impressive!
but what about moving background? Will it affect speed?
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Re: Daimakaimura (Ghouls 'n Ghosts) for the Atari STE

Postby calimero » Tue May 09, 2017 1:52 pm

dlfrsilver wrote:Well this remains a not too overly complicated game from the sprites point. Just playing the whole game and note which sprites are present in level X.


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