Should there be a falcon emulator?

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Should there be a falcon emulator?

yes
37
88%
no
5
12%
 
Total votes: 42

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goldman
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Should there be a falcon emulator?

Postby goldman » Sat Aug 23, 2003 8:04 pm

Okay... answer is probably obvious... But it drives me crazy we have nothing there for Falcon!! Whats with that!?

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Postby Silver Surfer » Sat Aug 23, 2003 9:04 pm

rb is currently working on such fine thing, check out the NetAtari thread!

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Postby [ProToS] » Sun Aug 24, 2003 2:35 am

I think F030 emu will be aviable one day ... but when :? ? ....
I dont need a emu because a own 2 F030 :D but it will be fun
to play with a emu
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Postby Gryzor » Sun Aug 24, 2003 6:06 am

Nahhhh, you know what I say? Let's gather together all the Falcons in the world and set the pile on fire. Who needs them?


...damn, that was a self-replying poll if I ever saw one! :D

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Postby simonsunnyboy » Sun Aug 24, 2003 6:39 am

Very obvious ...no need to discuss it if you ask me 8)
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Postby rb » Sun Aug 24, 2003 8:06 am

patience guys patience.. netatari is a huge project and needs time..

and if one of you guys is too impatient... well then.. write your own falcon emulator and spend uncounted unpaid hours in front of your computer :)

but be aware of one thing... no-one should put me under pressure for selfish reasons... otherwise the outcome of netatari might be quite different you want it to be.. so be patient :)

cheers
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Postby earx » Thu Aug 28, 2003 9:09 am

first i thought a falcemu would destroy the last remnants of the falcon scene. with the st emus it was a bit like that: throw away your real st, play games in steem all day and do nothing productive. there are exceptions, but they are not so frequent. i do admit steem is a good preview tool and overall a damn fine piece of software.

if the falcon scene (which is even smaller than the st scene) would go the same way : cluck emus!

however, it seems like loads of people are bent on destroying their falcs. you know.. connecting hdd's when the machine is on and such, overclocking.. that maybe in 10 years there won't be a real falcon left on the planet. so... i welcome a falcon emulator with open arms. rb: i'll check your page at once :)

about ppl wanting to burn falcons: let me ask you... what did you do in 93/94? did you buy a falcon or a pc? and you think it's strange atari kicked the bucket?

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Postby rb » Thu Aug 28, 2003 10:25 am

hi earx

first of all i agree. nothing can ever replace the real thing...

but the fate of all electronic gadgets is more or less given.. once the tear and wear will so big that it simply doesn't work anymore.. not much one can do about it :(

emulators? well as i mentioned before.. no-one is urged to use them, right? personallu, i think that the emu scene rather helps the 'real' scene.. how many people did accidentally trip over an emu site and remembered their good old, let's say, atari days? how many remembered then that they actually still have their st somewhere in the loft, possibly together with some long forgotten games/apps/mags or whatever?

also, emus might help to keep some uncracked games alive.. look at the steem debug version.. this is a great platform to do such things.. which again helps the real scene..

if you think about it i am sure you and others will come up with other ideas regarding the usefulness of emulators..

in 93 i still had my st but due to my job i also had to have a pc.. unfortunately i never owned a falcon but hopefully very soon i will be able to get one from ebay

cheers
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Postby Gryzor » Thu Aug 28, 2003 4:04 pm

Huuuhh? So, let me get this straight, there shoudln't be a Falcon emu so that those SO FEW who have a real one wouldn't thrash it?? That's ridiculous... I was into emus well before suvvumbing to nostalgia and buying an Amstrad CPC464, a 6128, a Spectrum ZX, an A500, an A600, an A1200, an ST 1040STFM, a 1040STe and a MegaSt, not to mention the 70's Pong system. I can't see how the emus destroyed those computers, nossire.

Furthermore, it's absurd (and trully backward) to believe that a system exists only in its physical form. If the ST or the Falcon or whatever continues to live through software, it's just as well. Even if I have all these machines, and I just *love* the sensation of turning them on and hooking them up to my TV/monitor and doing whatever it is that I do, it's NOT as easy to do it. It's far easier to just fire up the emulator and give it a go, especially now that I'm in the army and I simply don't have my machines with me -and this is just an example of the practicality of emulators.

Falcon prices are pretty steep -and it goes to say how popular they are. I'll buy one as soon as I have the money, and regardless of an emulator. Those who wanna use a Falcon will do it, no matter what: since prices are that high, if they're not really interested they wouldn't get one anyway.

So: let's see an emulator :)

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Postby earx » Thu Sep 04, 2003 7:22 am

gryzor: nope, you got me wrong. i think there should be an emulator, because in the future the is no real falcon left. i don't believe a system exists in it's physical form completely, but prefer the real thing.

rb: best of luck with the emulator. i know a bit about the falcon, so feel free to ask some questions.

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Postby Trooper » Thu Sep 04, 2003 1:28 pm

let me ask you... what did you do in 93/94? did you buy a falcon or a pc? and you think it's strange atari kicked the bucket?


Well, I didn't buy a PC.....I didn't buy a Falcon either though. I coudn't afford any of them so I still used my trusty old 520STM. in 94/95 I got a 286 with two 20Mb MFM HDD's for free from a friend. I used this one to run the BBS I had in those days (South Central BBS if any of the swedes here ever used to visit BBS's back in the day). I still used my 520STM for the day to day stuff since I didn't have the cash to buy a real PC and it was quite clear where Atari was heading by then.

Some time later I got a 486 and soon after that my first Pentium (this lead to trying to overclock the poor old 486 to the point where it spontaneously burst into flames :lol: ).

So where am I going with this? Well I'm just trying to say that there's NO WAY that I'm going to feel it was my fault that Atari didn't market their product, it's not my fault that Atari didn't give proper support to the people trying to supply their machines with software.

So for my sake. No regrets, No remorse.

I still love Atari and would never get rid of my Ataris but like I said, I'm not to blame for Ataris downfall.

Cheers! :P

Troop

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Postby earx » Fri Sep 05, 2003 7:28 am

trooper:

so you couldn't afford it. okay, fine.

but, if you didn't feel responsible, why did you reply in the first place?

there were more people that thought like you. and i won't say any particular one of them is _the_ responsible person for atari's demise. but in the end...

and atari, sure sure. we all know their marketing, spare me the details. but at the end of the day, it was good hardware and alot of good software was written for it (and still is being written).

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Postby ST Graveyard » Fri Sep 05, 2003 6:29 pm

Good software? You are correct, a lot of good software was/is written, but way to little software for the competition, and to late. I remember my dad complaining when he bought his first ST back in 86 ... He played around with TOS cause there just weren't any decent programs around at the release! It has always been like that with Atari in the Tramiel years. It was the case with the Falcon, with the STE (STe only games can be counted on 2 hands) and even with the Jaguar (AvP was way too late, if they had just bundled that with the JAG). And that is responsible for the demise of Atari, I think. People just get sick of this. Atari did not support the software companies, so I hear from everywhere...

I love Atari, I love there hardware ... But it takes more than good hardware to make it! Even the finest hardware is nothing if it doesn't get a good software support ... And Atari was the perfect example of this!

Just my 2 euro-cents :wink:

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Postby MSueper » Tue Sep 09, 2003 6:36 pm

In my opinion an emulator, especially such a good one as STEEM, can be even better than the original.
In my "real" Atari days as a programmer, i was more than one time the victim of a sudden system crash, and quite some programs are lost due to diskette problems.
And remember how slow and noissy the disk drive was...
One of the worst problems (in my opinion) with an atari st is, that the early TOS versions have quite some bugs. But ST users are not able to upgrade simply, even with new TOS versions in existence, because TOS is hardware (ROM chips). With todays emus it is quite simple to change the tos version.
Since emus can use harddrive images or windows folders as replacements for real st harddrives you can experiment with different os systems (linux) without the risk of a total data loss.

summary: a falcan emulator would be great!!

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Postby ambientdistortions » Mon Jan 26, 2004 6:19 pm

I think a Falcon emulator can only help the scene all-around.

1. People may be more willing to code Falcon specific software as the easy and availability is there.

2. If the Falcon can be 100% truly emulated with DSP and all, most people that could care less about the actual machine and want nothing more then the functions of the great machine via emulation will SELL his or her Falcon to regain some $ and just use emu. This is good because Falcon prices are too damn high IMO. :)

30 GOTO 1

haha.. I mean... yea :)

anyways... I think it would be a great thing and I will still keep my Falcon regardless because I love nothing more then using a real Atari.

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what scene do you mean?

Postby moondog/.tSCc. » Mon Feb 09, 2004 4:12 pm

just wanted to say that an emulation doesn´t helps the scene, esp. the demoscene, this is the scene earx surely is speaking of... just for example,
STEEM didn´t brought us that many new coders and I don´t remember one big demo in the last years that was written on emulation instead of the real machine...
and so it will be with the falcon, don´t get me wrong, an emulation surely holds up the popularity of old softwares and helps the atari comunity to survive, but as said, i hardly doubt it will support the demo scene subculture as the usual emulation user is just this, a user, software collector, gambler... good for checking stuff and giving feedback but the fewest of them get really productive to help the whole thing to survive with new softwares, new tools, demos or games... and this is what the community badly needs...

greetings, eric
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Postby [ProToS] » Mon Feb 09, 2004 8:06 pm

I have to admit .. you'r right on this subject :?
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Postby sh3-rg » Mon Feb 09, 2004 8:53 pm

my arse...

my ARSE.

emulation doesn't help the scene?

Anyone coming that with me can cluck Right Off.

Can't put it any simpler than that.

Emulating Ataris has done nothing but GOOD for users/developers/coders/whatever/whoever. However fornicating 1337 & scene they are.

It's _easier_ for us to develop software with Steem than a real ST or Falcon. It's a dream come true for ST developers. OK, maybe it's not 100%-there for doing super-hard demo poo, but who the hell is doing that on the STe these days? Devving with Steem is great... the Steem kids even put EXTRA KOD in there to help us dev stuff! They are true Atari fornicating HEROS!

It's not for you or anyone else to say someone shouldn't emulate, that's entirely up to an given individual.

Damn, if I could give my F030 a rest and emulate from time to time, maybe I wouldn't have to be buying up deez's UK surplus...

How many people do you think are going to be making demos for a 16MHz F030 in a years time or two? Not so fornicating many at all I'm guessing... not that I know so fornicating much. There's only going to be 150 (maybe 190) ct60s... most Falcon owners won't ever see those prods. If there was an emu, well that's just even more prospective viewers of the prods the scene put so much time & effort in to... who would deny anyone that?

Imagine how many ST fans are around who couldn't justify the ca$h mon£y for a Falcon, but would dearly love to check out the prods of the last 10 years+ that we have loved (well, most of us)... It's great to be into Falcon stuff, esp. scene stuff, we all know that, so where's the harm in some ST fan or even Amiga kid or PC Dad taking a look at what we have? Now imagine if just a few of those decided to join us in producing s/w for our great machines, if we gained one or two more artists or musicians. That'd be such a terrible thing? nads, m'lud.

Sit on your arse & moan & groan all you like about being so fornicating hardcore 1337 that you use Atari/Clab plastic boxes and nothing else. The Real Thing. Yea, nothing comes close, but thank God not everyone has their head that far up their own arse that they can't see that only positives could come out of having a f030 emu.

I was left without a Falcon for 2 years, mine died... the THIRD one to do so... (well, if you use them 10 hours+ every day you have to expect it sooner or later). I couldn't afford _yet another_, I hadn't even paid for the now dead last one I'd bought! If there had been a f030 emu, damn, I could have made do with that & helped out with some stuffs. Steem was useful during those dark days from time to time.

Do you know there are people even in our #atariscne who don't own real Atari hardware any more? Should they cluck right off now? Do they love our scene any less?

MSueper makes some valid points, as do other proir posters inc. Pieter.

IMO, Steem is the best thing to happen to the Atari scene in the last 10 years. It's up there with the contribution of Tat, Norman & Earx etc. to the demo scene. It's up there with Our Glorious Leader Mr Pink for his demo scene/game prod devotion. Let's hope to have something of a Falcon equivalent one day.

shTHREE/ReservoirGods </big_fucking_rant>

The views expressed above are solely those of sh3 and not necessarily those of the other reservoir gods, its employees, trustees, or what the cluck ever else you can think of blah de blah de nads. (C) My Arse.

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Should there be a falcon emulator?

Postby bj » Tue Feb 10, 2004 12:23 am

Would it be fair to say there's something wrong with your arse?

I think that Steem is the best thing since sliced bread - emulators are great. Then again I don't eat sliced bread and I prefer a real Atari even if I use an emulator more frequently.

Bj
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Postby sh3-rg » Tue Feb 10, 2004 12:27 am

Nope, that wouldn't be fair at all, but you'll have to take my word for it. :)

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Postby moondog/.tSCc. » Wed Feb 11, 2004 11:24 am

sh3, i wrote, don´t get me wrong... but as always people like to read one sentence to turn mad and don´t like it to think... but who cares anyway...
i just liked to express my thought about a falcon emulation as it seems an emulation is seen as the saver of the scene or comunity what else in here... and i don´t see it like that, i just liked to express my doubt that an emulation will kick the scene forwards and i don´t see a point in not doing that...
maybe the res gods are one of the few exceptions but even you have to face the fact that the majority of the emulation using people is using the emulation to consume stuff but not for developping stuff in the first place, as far as i know... but only new stuff can hold the comunity alive over longer time as a big but only consuming comunity will die much sooner
i for myself using emulations as well, ha, damn lamer i am, no? baaa, but as said, i just use it to consume, for doing something, i still prefer my falcon...
and i would install a falcon emulation as well... i have no problems to do so, but i doubt i would give my falcy a rest then as i just don´t like it to work around on emulation to do things...
i don´t have anything against emulations nor the users of them, but again, i have my doubts and take my right to express them, without pissing onto others legs...
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Postby sh3-rg » Wed Feb 11, 2004 2:02 pm

Hey Moondog, let's just say we'll agree to disagree! There are a number of active producers that use emulation heavily as well as real machines, as long as things are being made it shouldn;t matter how. Giving more people access to all our stuff can only benefit everyone.

...and if I pissed on your leg, let's hope you wore your nice leather trousers & the piss landed at your feet.

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Should there be a Falcon Emulator?

Postby CiH » Wed Feb 11, 2004 4:47 pm

Falcon emulator?

Well it might be the time when I finally get a Peecee! :lol:

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Postby [ProToS] » Wed Feb 11, 2004 8:04 pm

shPEArg: your right, I know people how are coding with a emu and do great things ( like rg products )

CiH: I like peeceee too :wink:

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Postby neo_rg » Mon Feb 16, 2004 2:55 pm

hmmmm falcon emulator.. lookie here it's a start
http://topp.atari-users.net/tos404.htm

:D


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