Additional OPL2 sound through parallel port ?

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Additional OPL2 sound through parallel port ?

Postby Zarchos » Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:51 am

https://youtu.be/z3DU2mNBa6M

What do you think of that ?
If the driver is adapted to the Ataris ?
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Re: Additional OPL2 sound through parallel port ?

Postby mikro » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:10 am

The problem isn't the driver (although there can be an issue with PC vs. Atari parallel port compatibility). The real problem is usage -- even for the target audience (PC/DOS users) there's been only a handful of games patched. For Atari you would need to literally *create* support for that sound card which might be much harder than patching few I/O addresses.

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Re: Additional OPL2 sound through parallel port ?

Postby Zarchos » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:43 am

mikro wrote:The problem isn't the driver (although there can be an issue with PC vs. Atari parallel port compatibility). The real problem is usage -- even for the target audience (PC/DOS users) there's been only a handful of games patched. For Atari you would need to literally *create* support for that sound card which might be much harder than patching few I/O addresses.


Yes sure there will be some additional work.
I thought also for people making music using the old 'specific tonality' of old chips, that could be a great addition, to add in a soundtracker for example.
It is cheap too.
About 35 € kit
50 € all soldered.
Falcon, Atari 1040 STE, 520ST, 800xl, xegs, Amigas, Archimedes, RISC PCs, Iyonix, Omega, BBC B, Atom, Electron, ZX 81, Spectrum 48/128/+2/+3, Russian clones, Sam Coupe, V6Z80P, QLs inc. Q68, and more !
2200 m2 museum on its way https://youtu.be/xjB6_Ez-3BA
Shorter video here : https://youtu.be/UEZisfkcN1Y

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Re: Additional OPL2 sound through parallel port ?

Postby Zarchos » Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:17 pm

Received answer from the seller, after I ask if commented source code is available :

'
Hi Zarchos,
Thanks, and that would be great !
Have a look at this repository : https://github.com/pdewacht/adlipt
for all code.

good luck !
Serge
'
Falcon, Atari 1040 STE, 520ST, 800xl, xegs, Amigas, Archimedes, RISC PCs, Iyonix, Omega, BBC B, Atom, Electron, ZX 81, Spectrum 48/128/+2/+3, Russian clones, Sam Coupe, V6Z80P, QLs inc. Q68, and more !
2200 m2 museum on its way https://youtu.be/xjB6_Ez-3BA
Shorter video here : https://youtu.be/UEZisfkcN1Y

Currently porting SOTB to the Archie : https://www.youtube.com/user/Archimedes75009/featured

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Re: Additional OPL2 sound through parallel port ?

Postby simonsunnyboy » Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:51 pm

Nice for old PC use, worthless for Ataris as there won't be any software available.
Atari ST games have no code that can be rerouted (like the port access with the driver there) nor rewritten (as that patching tool does). They would require driver code from scratch.

I would like to see some but as with all extra hardware, it will get one or two titles supporting this and that's it.

nice toy to make it work on any non-PC, sure but I really do not see mainstream software support for this.
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Re: Additional OPL2 sound through parallel port ?

Postby Zarchos » Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:51 pm

I posted in Atari music, thinking for people who like specific sonorities, they might find it interesting.
Of course yes it will need some work, for example to integrate in a soundtracker.
I think there must be some sources of soundtrackers (in C) on the PC using this chip, so adding that to an ST soundtracker, yes, it will require some work, but not to create just everything from scratch.
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2200 m2 museum on its way https://youtu.be/xjB6_Ez-3BA
Shorter video here : https://youtu.be/UEZisfkcN1Y

Currently porting SOTB to the Archie : https://www.youtube.com/user/Archimedes75009/featured

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Re: Additional OPL2 sound through parallel port ?

Postby AtariZoll » Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:47 pm

Let's forget for minute all need for patching game codes - and look how can get sound at all via Atari ST parallel port. Here, we talk actually about PCM sound via Atari ST parallel port. And that's done already. There were such devices sold, or you could make self it for few bucks. Some games have support for. The problem is relative high CPU load for such playback. All must be solved via high-freq. interrupts, unlike in case of HW supported DMA. It may sound silly, but on Atari ST ACSI port would be much better for attaching there some sound device. Because there we have DMA.
PC has own DMA channels, and it can drive parallel port too, I guess. If not, there is way faster CPU speed.
Simply, Atari ST is too slow for this way. If that OPL supports some FM synthesized sound - why we need it beside YM in ST ?
I don't expect that anyone will do Atari SW for this basically good for PC only toy.

Idea about PCM sound on ACSI port sounds as good. It will need some buffering, because there must be short pauses for starting DMA transfers. Still, can be done for not much money. CPU slowdown will be minimal for some 20 KHz sample rate. Something for thinkering next days ...
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Re: Additional OPL2 sound through parallel port ?

Postby joska » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:10 pm

You should watch the entire video. This is not about PCM sound, but OPL2 which is a synthesizer chip.

There are some open source OPL2 trackers for DOS, I would assume that these can be ported to the ST. It would probably be an interesting project.
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Re: Additional OPL2 sound through parallel port ?

Postby AtariZoll » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:25 pm

joska wrote:You should watch the entire video. This is not about PCM sound, but OPL2 which is a synthesizer chip. ....

I guess that you read my whole post, where I talked that Atari ST has already synthesizer. And even if that OPL has MIDI sound, Atari ST has ... :lol:
Famous Schrodinger's cat hypothetical experiment says that cat is dead or alive until we open box and see condition of poor animal, which deserved better logic. Cat is always in some certain state - regardless from is observer able or not to see what the state is.

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Re: Additional OPL2 sound through parallel port ?

Postby joska » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:40 pm

I did read your post (in which you almost exclusively talk about PCM and DMA which is COMPLETELY irrelevant), which is why I noticed that you have no clue about what OPL2 is but still had to write another long post on why it's a bad idea to use it with an ST.
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Re: Additional OPL2 sound through parallel port ?

Postby AtariZoll » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:50 pm

joska wrote:I did read your post (in which you almost exclusively talk about PCM and DMA which is COMPLETELY irrelevant), which is why I noticed that you have no clue about what OPL2 is but still had to write another long post on why it's a bad idea to use it with an ST.

No, you have no clue about Atari HW, how ports work. And no clue about SW for audio too. I designed many peripherals for ST. All said is based on experience, what is something you don't have, only big mouth. I will not tolerate insults from moderator here. Now go and demand ban ...
Famous Schrodinger's cat hypothetical experiment says that cat is dead or alive until we open box and see condition of poor animal, which deserved better logic. Cat is always in some certain state - regardless from is observer able or not to see what the state is.

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Re: Additional OPL2 sound through parallel port ?

Postby joska » Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:37 pm

AtariZoll wrote:No, you have no clue about Atari HW, how ports work. And no clue about SW for audio too. I designed many peripherals for ST. All said is based on experience,


Experience? Your statements about this device clearly suggests that you have absolutely no experience with it:

AtariZoll wrote:Here, we talk actually about PCM sound via Atari ST parallel port.


No, we don't. Not at all. You're just simply plain wrong. You trashed Zarchos' idea without even knowing what OPL2 is. I don't know if this specific device will work with an ST printer port. It might depend on signals or features that the ST does not have. Looking at the schematics and/or driver source will be enough to determine if it can work or not. But there is nothing wrong with connecting sound devices to the printer port in general. As you point out yourself, this has been done in the past by adding crude DACs. There is atleast one tracker with support for this. A synth-chip like the OPL2 is a lot more suited for this than a DAC due the small amounts of data required. The OPL2 is a lot more advanced than the YM, and there's a lot of OPL2 tracker music available. I'd say that playing OPL2 music on the ST would be quite fun.

Now, is this "sensible" when you can just play this music on some PC? Yes, it's just as sensible as playing games or making demos or streaming videos in worse-than-VHS quality on an ST.

AtariZoll wrote: what is something you don't have, only big mouth. I will not tolerate insults from moderator here.


:D Yes, you clearly know all about insults. Good that the VS1053 (google it) hanging off the printer port in my STE haven't heard about my lack of experience, because it's (edit: *was*, I just realized that I've used the Arduino that acts as an LPT<->SPI bridge in another project) playing mp3's just fine. Useless, I know. But I didn't do this because I needed an mp3 player.

AtariZoll wrote: Now go and demand ban ...


Well, I have never "demanded ban" before and will not start now. You can always delete or edit your posts yourself if you feel that a ban would be appropriate.
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Re: Additional OPL2 sound through parallel port ?

Postby AtariZoll » Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:41 am

And something what our 'expert' here did not notice : ST parallel port is not same as PC parallel port - some lines missing. So, there is a big chance that it simply will not work at all on ST :D
Famous Schrodinger's cat hypothetical experiment says that cat is dead or alive until we open box and see condition of poor animal, which deserved better logic. Cat is always in some certain state - regardless from is observer able or not to see what the state is.

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Re: Additional OPL2 sound through parallel port ?

Postby joska » Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:46 am

Maybe you should read this "experts" posts more closely...
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Re: Additional OPL2 sound through parallel port ?

Postby AtariZoll » Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:11 am

Sorry, that 'expert' was not for you, but OP.
Famous Schrodinger's cat hypothetical experiment says that cat is dead or alive until we open box and see condition of poor animal, which deserved better logic. Cat is always in some certain state - regardless from is observer able or not to see what the state is.

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Re: Additional OPL2 sound through parallel port ?

Postby jury » Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:43 am

God, damn it. Take your pumped up ego and please get the hell out of this forum. I have enough of this, I try to skip threads where you show up, but lately I need to skip more and more as more and more threads are shited by your presence. Also wrote to Dal to ban you from the forum, go show up your superiority in your home.

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Re: Additional OPL2 sound through parallel port ?

Postby Zarchos » Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:03 am

AtariZoll wrote:Sorry, that 'expert' was not for you, but OP.


If it is about the parallel port not being bi directional, this sound add on, to me, should receive infos, not send some to the Atari.

Now what a fuss and strange behaviour.
The kit costs 35€.
It is certainly worth studying it.
Yes it could be used in a soundtracker, or even who knows for the demos appearing each year at compos.

I really don't understand the negative approach, by default.
Something like 'Pessimistic mode ON'.
Certain human natures, maybe ?
Falcon, Atari 1040 STE, 520ST, 800xl, xegs, Amigas, Archimedes, RISC PCs, Iyonix, Omega, BBC B, Atom, Electron, ZX 81, Spectrum 48/128/+2/+3, Russian clones, Sam Coupe, V6Z80P, QLs inc. Q68, and more !
2200 m2 museum on its way https://youtu.be/xjB6_Ez-3BA
Shorter video here : https://youtu.be/UEZisfkcN1Y

Currently porting SOTB to the Archie : https://www.youtube.com/user/Archimedes75009/featured

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Re: Additional OPL2 sound through parallel port ?

Postby Zarchos » Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:05 am

AtariZoll wrote:Sorry, that 'expert' was not for you, but OP.


I propose you present some apologies.
This is a warning.
Believe me, you'd better do.
I am not in a mood anymore now with disrespectful people like you.
Falcon, Atari 1040 STE, 520ST, 800xl, xegs, Amigas, Archimedes, RISC PCs, Iyonix, Omega, BBC B, Atom, Electron, ZX 81, Spectrum 48/128/+2/+3, Russian clones, Sam Coupe, V6Z80P, QLs inc. Q68, and more !
2200 m2 museum on its way https://youtu.be/xjB6_Ez-3BA
Shorter video here : https://youtu.be/UEZisfkcN1Y

Currently porting SOTB to the Archie : https://www.youtube.com/user/Archimedes75009/featured

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Re: Additional OPL2 sound through parallel port ?

Postby AtariZoll » Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:31 am

Atari ST parallel port is bidirectional. I designed EPROM programmer where of course both direction are used.
And Zarchos should read what is written here - what is the difference - told not only by me.
Now about respect: I respect knowledge, effort. it's easy to pop up here with some ideas. Asking for opinion, and then getting insulted. You are not expert, that's clear as Sun. If you don't respect my knowledge, gained over 30 years just with Atari ST, that's your problem - I will not threat, I will not even get insulted. I know what I'm capable and what I know, and even what I don't know (well).
The things are that you should buy that OPL2 thing and try with Atari. That's what I do usually - invest time, money, and not asking others to do the job and investment.
Famous Schrodinger's cat hypothetical experiment says that cat is dead or alive until we open box and see condition of poor animal, which deserved better logic. Cat is always in some certain state - regardless from is observer able or not to see what the state is.

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Re: Additional OPL2 sound through parallel port ?

Postby mikro » Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:44 am

AtariZoll, FFS, you behave like a jerk, how many people need to tell you that? How many banned identities you need on this forum to realise it's YOU, it's YOUR attitude, it's YOUR insults and unless you change that, you will get your third (or fourth or whatever) ban again.

Nobody gives a crap that you think it's not you, that it's everybody else's attitude. NO, IT IS YOU. Either cool off or go away, I second jury, it's becoming harder and harder to skip your threads and posts.

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Re: Additional OPL2 sound through parallel port ?

Postby AtariZoll » Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:46 am

joska wrote:...
No, we don't. Not at all. You're just simply plain wrong. You trashed Zarchos' idea without even knowing what OPL2 is.
...

The reason that I talked about PCM is cample playback - pos: 15min 40secs in YT video. Now, it is really not possible to judge by that video is it some kind of Atari ST YM kind sample playback, or some real PCM. If it is YM kind, then actually Atari ST SW is very close to it, and it goes even via same chip - YM is for sound and for parallel port.
So, if it even has no PCM it is even less interesting - what we get ? Only some better quality synthesized sound - at price that need to write code for it in every game separately. Doing some audio SW patch for this ? Yes, do it, whoever. Don't see any volunteers here. Joska comes to mind as best candidate. As SimonSunnyBoy said, that will not happen. And there is no any disrespect in this.
Famous Schrodinger's cat hypothetical experiment says that cat is dead or alive until we open box and see condition of poor animal, which deserved better logic. Cat is always in some certain state - regardless from is observer able or not to see what the state is.

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Re: Additional OPL2 sound through parallel port ?

Postby Zarchos » Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:47 am

*MODERATOR NOTE* Such direct threatening is not tolerated here.
Falcon, Atari 1040 STE, 520ST, 800xl, xegs, Amigas, Archimedes, RISC PCs, Iyonix, Omega, BBC B, Atom, Electron, ZX 81, Spectrum 48/128/+2/+3, Russian clones, Sam Coupe, V6Z80P, QLs inc. Q68, and more !
2200 m2 museum on its way https://youtu.be/xjB6_Ez-3BA
Shorter video here : https://youtu.be/UEZisfkcN1Y

Currently porting SOTB to the Archie : https://www.youtube.com/user/Archimedes75009/featured

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Re: Additional OPL2 sound through parallel port ?

Postby AtariZoll » Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:49 am

mikro wrote:AtariZoll, FFS, you behave like a jerk, how many people need to tell you that? How many banned identities you need on this forum to realise it's YOU, it's YOUR attitude, it's YOUR insults and unless you change that, you will get your third (or fourth or whatever) ban again.

Nobody gives a crap that you think it's not you, that it's everybody else's attitude. NO, IT IS YOU. Either cool off or go away, I second jury, it's becoming harder and harder to skip your threads and posts.


Sure, every word you say is true, saint. Don't waste your breath you hate lover. I'm here for facts, technical knowledge, not to please some poor minds.
Famous Schrodinger's cat hypothetical experiment says that cat is dead or alive until we open box and see condition of poor animal, which deserved better logic. Cat is always in some certain state - regardless from is observer able or not to see what the state is.

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Re: Additional OPL2 sound through parallel port ?

Postby AtariZoll » Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:53 am

OK, time to talk with Dal. If this forum can not see who is who really works for community, and who is here because ego and other things, time to leave. There are other places with moderators who moderate.
Famous Schrodinger's cat hypothetical experiment says that cat is dead or alive until we open box and see condition of poor animal, which deserved better logic. Cat is always in some certain state - regardless from is observer able or not to see what the state is.

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Re: Additional OPL2 sound through parallel port ?

Postby mikro » Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:54 am

AtariZoll wrote:Sure, every word you say is true, saint. Don't waste your breath you hate lover. I'm here for facts, technical knowledge, not to please some poor minds.

You know, the difference between us is that if somebody (yes, even one person) told me that I have crossed a line, I would apologise and think twice before I write something next, just to be sure I don't offend people when it's not really necessary (and desired, if I can be that bold to assume that it is not your intention to insult people here).


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