SatanDisk - first really working version

Troubles with your machine? Just want to speak about the latest improvements? This is the place!

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pop
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Postby pop » Thu Aug 23, 2007 5:38 pm

yay received mine today! Unfortunately cant do anything with it as i am going on holiday but the wait is over :D and a rather nice job they have made of it too :D

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Postby Jookie » Thu Aug 23, 2007 5:54 pm

DrCoolZic wrote:both connected and powered => does not work
One or the other powered => boot corectly from the powered device


Hmm... poo, I couldn't test it with many other ACSI devices connected, but I've tested two SatanDisks together and it worked, and I tested SatanDisk with Link 96 / Link II and it worked too... I would need to drop an eye on that combination, but I don't have any ICD adapter (not counting the Link).

DrCoolZic wrote:By the way any idea on how to use 2GB SD card ???


The 2 GB card wasn't tested, the biggest card I bought was 1 GB, but the part of the code which takes care of the card isn't limited to 1 GB. The SCSI-I commands are limited to 1 GB, so you might want to try to turn on the 'ICD adapter' switch somewhere in the HDDRUTIL (and save it to HDDRIVER), which enables the ICD format of commands (logner than 6 bytes, which support > 1 GB disks).

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Postby ijor » Thu Aug 23, 2007 6:04 pm

Hi Jookie,

What about ICD-Pro drivers compatibility? Should work? Was tested?

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Postby Jookie » Thu Aug 23, 2007 6:08 pm

ijor wrote:What about ICD-Pro drivers compatibility? Should work? Was tested?


Well, I tried SCSI Tools which came with the Link and the SatanDisk was detected, but it's capacity was detected badly... I realy don't know why the other drivers don't work. I should have tested and improved the SatanDisk with the other drivers also... I just thought that most of the people uses HDDRIVER because it is the last developed and supported driver.

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Postby ijor » Thu Aug 23, 2007 6:34 pm

Jookie wrote:
ijor wrote:What about ICD-Pro drivers compatibility? Should work? Was tested?

Well, I tried SCSI Tools which came with the Link and the SatanDisk was detected, but it's capacity was detected badly... I realy don't know why the other drivers don't work. I should have tested and improved the SatanDisk with the other drivers also...


No problem. We can still improve the firmware. I understand that it is in flash and the user can upgrade a new version (yeah, I realize a debug cable would be needed).

I just thought that most of the people uses HDDRIVER because it is the last developed and supported driver.


Probably, but many would prefer other drivers because they are "free" :)

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Postby DrCoolZic » Thu Aug 23, 2007 7:12 pm

Jookie wrote:The 2 GB card wasn't tested, the biggest card I bought was 1 GB, but the part of the code which takes care of the card isn't limited to 1 GB. The SCSI-I commands are limited to 1 GB, so you might want to try to turn on the 'ICD adapter' switch somewhere in the HDDRUTIL (and save it to HDDRIVER), which enables the ICD format of commands (logner than 6 bytes, which support > 1 GB disks).

I have selected "ICD compatible adapter" in setting->general but it does not change anything?!
Hmm... poo, I couldn't test it with many other ACSI devices connected, but I've tested two SatanDisks together and it worked, and I tested SatanDisk with Link 96 / Link II and it worked too... I would need to drop an eye on that combination, but I don't have any ICD adapter (not counting the Link).
I have a rather old ICD adapter and this may be the cause of the problem. Has anyone tried with a more recent ICD adaptor ???

Actually if we can make 2GB card to work and have an easy access on a PC to the data on 4x512MB partitions (may be a TC plugin ?) this would relegate the SCSI drives to the atic!

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Postby jens » Thu Aug 23, 2007 7:19 pm

DrCoolZic wrote:
jens wrote:2. No, it does not make sense that way. The ICD board just provides scsi capabilities to the bus and uses scsi id 6 for the clock. The other id's are used by the devices you connect - nothing more. SatanDisk should definately work! If it doesn't I suspect it's the ICD board that messes things up.

If you use HDDRIVER it differentiates the IDE, SCSI, and ACSI busses
All the drives connected to the ICD board are reported in on the ACSI bus and not on the SCSI bus!?!?

On the Mega/STe there is no Scsi bus, the ICD adapter just makes Scsi drives usable.
So any device attached to an ST or TT Acsi port will show up as an Acsi device.
Greetings, Jens

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Postby ijor » Thu Aug 23, 2007 7:20 pm

DrCoolZic wrote:I have a rather old ICD adapter and this may be the cause of the problem. Has anyone tried with a more recent ICD adaptor ???


Hi Jean, nice to see you again :)

I think I mentioned this once some time ago. If you have the oldest ICD host adapter (sometimes called FAST), then note they support group 0 commands only. So it doesn't support disks > 1GB.

Furthermore, the capabilites of the pass-through connector are different and more limited than the ones in later ICD models. I think I have some documentation about the differences, will try to find it.

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Postby jens » Thu Aug 23, 2007 7:31 pm

DrCoolZic wrote:I have selected "ICD compatible adapter" in setting->general but it does not change anything?!

That's for Link adapters only I guess.
But I'm not certain about it.
Greetings, Jens

Falcon030 - TT030 - Mega/STe - 1040 STf - 520 ST+ - ST-Book - Milan 060

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Postby tobe » Thu Aug 23, 2007 8:56 pm

Today I buyed a 1GB SD card (it wasn't possible to find a 512MB :lol:)

I was thinking about creating a 512MB DOS compatible partition and another 512MB TOS only partition, but it doesn't seems possible to mix compatible and TOS-only partitions.

Or maybe I'm doing it wrong?

Anyway, 512MB is far enough and it was so f*cking good to plug the card in my PC and to copy files on it :D:D:D

I must admit I've copied some files just for the fun... :oops:
step 1: introduce bug, step 2: fix bug, step 3: goto step 1.

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Postby Mug UK » Thu Aug 23, 2007 9:08 pm

Apparently, judging by previous answers, you either have a TOS/Windows partition and nothing else at all or a pure ST SD card with multiple partitions.

Welcome to the world of damn easy file transfers. Makes PASTI and general MSAing so much easier :)
My main site: http://www.mug-uk.co.uk - slowly digging up the bits from my past (and re-working a few): Atari ST, Sega 8-bit (game hacks) and NDS (Music ripping guide).

I develop a free Word (for Windows) add-in that's available for Word 2007 upwards. It's a fix-it toolbox that will allow power Word users to fix document errors. You can find it at: http://www.mikestoolbox.co.uk

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Postby ijor » Fri Aug 24, 2007 5:08 am

DrCoolZic wrote:As I do not know of a way to change the ICD ASCI address I decided to change the SatanDisk...
Therefore look like a conflict somewhere. Actually as the ICD board uses the ACSI 00.00-07.00 it makes sense...
As mentioned even when ID is set to 2 for SatanDisk it is not reported correctly when ICD board is powered up as it belong to the "ICD address space" ?!?


Seems you have a wrong idea about how ACSI-SCSI Ids work. In first place, host adapters don't have an address space at all. ICD host adapters, and most other ones, just translate ACSI to SCSI id. So an ICD host adapter won't conflict with any other ID. Only a device (drive) id could produce a conflict. Atari branded drives are different, and the ACSI id is set with dip switches.

If you use HDDRIVER it differentiates the IDE, SCSI, and ACSI busses All the drives connected to the ICD board are reported in on the ACSI bus and not on the SCSI bus!?!?


Yes, that is correct. Drivers use the term SCSI bus for devices connected to the built-in SCSI controllers in the TT and Falcon. Not for the SCSI bus that is behind the ACSI bus. Note that the MSTe is considered ACSI, because it is actually a built-in host adapter, and not a built-in SCSI controller.

jens wrote:
DrCoolZic wrote:I have selected "ICD compatible adapter" in setting->general but it does not change anything?!

That's for Link adapters only I guess.
But I'm not certain about it.


I'm not very familiar with HDDRIVER, but it shouldn't be for the Link only.

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Postby ijor » Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:05 am

Re: Upgrading firmware

I didn't receive mine yet, but checking the prototype pictures and the schematics part list, I don't see any debug/isp/jtag connectors at all.

Jookie, please don't tell me we need to solder for upgrading the firmware. Do we?

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Postby Jookie » Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:49 am

ijor wrote:I didn't receive mine yet, but checking the prototype pictures and the schematics part list, I don't see any debug/isp/jtag connectors at all.

Jookie, please don't tell me we need to solder for upgrading the firmware. Do we?


There is no ISP and JTAG connector to save some space. But there are some pads to which you can solder those wires. I used special needles for programming:
http://joo.kie.sk/satandisk/pics/sd.jpg

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Postby simonsunnyboy » Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:20 am

Let's see then.
I hope mine arrived aswell, I should phone my parents to make sure.
Won't be able to test it until I'm home again.
Looking forward to it :)
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Postby ppera » Fri Aug 24, 2007 12:19 pm

tobe wrote:I was thinking about creating a 512MB DOS compatible partition and another 512MB TOS only partition, but it doesn't seems possible to mix compatible and TOS-only partitions.
Or maybe I'm doing it wrong?


It is Hddriver's limitation. Thing is possible, and I have disk with 14 cross-compatible partitions - but with special driver.

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Postby DrCoolZic » Fri Aug 24, 2007 2:18 pm

jens wrote:
DrCoolZic wrote:I have selected "ICD compatible adapter" in setting->general but it does not change anything?!

That's for Link adapters only I guess.
But I'm not certain about it.

I am guessing that Jookie was hoping that with this flag set the hddriver would use ICD extended command set (equiv to SCSI group 1) that to allow to overcome the 1GB limitation (24bit vs 32 bits)...

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Postby DrCoolZic » Fri Aug 24, 2007 2:35 pm

ppera wrote:
tobe wrote:I was thinking about creating a 512MB DOS compatible partition and another 512MB TOS only partition, but it doesn't seems possible to mix compatible and TOS-only partitions.
Or maybe I'm doing it wrong?


It is Hddriver's limitation. Thing is possible, and I have disk with 14 cross-compatible partitions - but with special driver.

Any simple solution to post modify sector 0 (?) created by hddriver so that we have one 512MB partition directly readable under windows and one only readable using drimg (of course both would be accessible in ST) ???

Actually having 4 x 512MB partitions one of them beieing directly readable under windoz would be even better.

We need to find a solution to make 2GB card fully accessible with SatanDisk. Price for a bundle of 2GB SD card and USB SD card reader is below 18€ !!!

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Postby DrCoolZic » Fri Aug 24, 2007 2:39 pm

Jookie wrote:
ijor wrote:I didn't receive mine yet, but checking the prototype pictures and the schematics part list, I don't see any debug/isp/jtag connectors at all.

Jookie, please don't tell me we need to solder for upgrading the firmware. Do we?


There is no ISP and JTAG connector to save some space. But there are some pads to which you can solder those wires. I used special needles for programming:
http://joo.kie.sk/satandisk/pics/sd.jpg

This is great.
But what HW are using to program the fw? In other words these wires go to what ?
I guess you would be the one to generate the new fw release ? Are the tools for Atmel & Xilinx free ?

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Postby tobe » Fri Aug 24, 2007 2:54 pm

ppera wrote:
tobe wrote:I was thinking about creating a 512MB DOS compatible partition and another 512MB TOS only partition, but it doesn't seems possible to mix compatible and TOS-only partitions.
Or maybe I'm doing it wrong?


It is Hddriver's limitation. Thing is possible, and I have disk with 14 cross-compatible partitions - but with special driver.

Mysterious answer :)
Please tell me, what's kind of special driver ?
step 1: introduce bug, step 2: fix bug, step 3: goto step 1.

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Postby MiggyMog » Fri Aug 24, 2007 4:28 pm

I have got mine today :-)
('< o o o o |''| STM,2xSTFM,2xSTE+HD,C-Lab Falcon MK2+HD,Satandisk,Ultrasatandisk,Ethernat.

ppera

Postby ppera » Fri Aug 24, 2007 4:43 pm

tobe wrote:Mysterious answer :)
Please tell me, what's kind of special driver ?


I mentioned it in this thread, couple pages earlier. I have IDE version made, and said here that can made ACSI version in case of interest.
Key is in compability with PC DOS, Win. Driver assures that partitions will work fast with Atari ST. All it requires little special partitions, so partitioning PRG is needed too.
Btw. I added 48-bit addressing to IDE driver, so disk size limit is in the sky.
Actually, it is 2000GB because DOS partition table has 32-bit entries (same stays for AHDI part. table).

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Postby tobe » Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:41 pm

ppera wrote:
tobe wrote:Mysterious answer :)
Please tell me, what's kind of special driver ?


I mentioned it in this thread, couple pages earlier. I have IDE version made, and said here that can made ACSI version in case of interest.
Key is in compability with PC DOS, Win. Driver assures that partitions will work fast with Atari ST. All it requires little special partitions, so partitioning PRG is needed too.
Btw. I added 48-bit addressing to IDE driver, so disk size limit is in the sky.
Actually, it is 2000GB because DOS partition table has 32-bit entries (same stays for AHDI part. table).


Since the spread of SatanDisks, I think the interest in such driver will raise quickly :)
At least, I'm *highly* interested !
I like the words "fast" and "compatible" :)

So ppera, please, go for the ASCI version.
step 1: introduce bug, step 2: fix bug, step 3: goto step 1.

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Postby bj » Fri Aug 24, 2007 10:32 pm

Mine arrived today. :D haven't had time to play with it yet. Near silent computing here I come :D . This should make backing up my serious program disks so much easier - in the dark winter months ahead. Maybe I'll even get round to transferring Timeworks 2 on to an emulator, if my originals are still ok.

Now I'll have to find the power supply - packed away somewhere of course. It must be somebody elses fault that I can't remember where.
:roll: Aha it must be that Mikros fault that I don't know my arse from my elbow. Surely their whereabouts should be clearly labelled in satandisks instructions?! :wink: :) I may have to read the manual - horror of horrors!
regards
BJ

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Postby bj » Fri Aug 24, 2007 10:54 pm

Have located both parts of my anatomy but still no power supply. Dash! & piffle! to my ageing brain. (Complying with the inoffensive language rule here :wink: ). Will look again tomorrow.

I'd like to daisy chain the satandisk with my other drives (one at a time)and back them up onto the PC. I have a "Link" scsi adapter and HD Driver so I hope it'll work.
regards

BJ


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