SatanDisk - first really working version

Troubles with your machine? Just want to speak about the latest improvements? This is the place!

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Postby Mug UK » Mon Aug 20, 2007 7:51 pm

Yes as mine's a separate power supply so I just take out the PSU lead.
My main site: http://www.mug-uk.co.uk - slowly digging up the bits from my past (and re-working a few): Atari ST, Sega 8-bit (game hacks) and NDS (Music ripping guide).

I develop a free Word (for Windows) add-in that's available for Word 2007 upwards. It's a fix-it toolbox that will allow power Word users to fix document errors. You can find it at: http://www.mikestoolbox.co.uk

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Postby Strider » Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:18 pm

Strider wrote:I just got mine some hours ago ! :wink:

For the moment I tried it my a Corsair 512 MB SDCard but files created on my STE are automatically deleted when I refresh the window or reset the computer... 8O


It seems my STE suffers from the DMA bug because it works rock solid on my STF TOS 1.0

Thanks to Bigdos I can read a FAT16 256 MB card formated on Windows with my STF... that's cool 8)

Now I would like to make a single TOS/DOS combined partition.
HDDriver (v8.15) asks me to fill this:
sectors per track: 40
heads: 9
Are the pre-filled values correct?

Edit: I guess they are :)

My STE had really a trouble with DMA. I am testing the 512 MB SDCard with hybrid TOS/DOS partition on another STE 1.62 and it works pretty nice! No more deleted files! 8)
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Postby Mug UK » Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:51 pm

Strider: Welcome to the wonderful world of SatanDisk with TOS/Windows SD cards. Life's great when others join in the fun :)
My main site: http://www.mug-uk.co.uk - slowly digging up the bits from my past (and re-working a few): Atari ST, Sega 8-bit (game hacks) and NDS (Music ripping guide).

I develop a free Word (for Windows) add-in that's available for Word 2007 upwards. It's a fix-it toolbox that will allow power Word users to fix document errors. You can find it at: http://www.mikestoolbox.co.uk

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Postby Strider » Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:33 pm

Muguk: thanks :wink:

I've played a little bit with it, really a nice toy!
Exchanging files between ST and PC is so easy now.
Downloading fresh stuff and running it some seconds later on the real machine is so wonderful!

Oh and by the way, Image Runner (http://www.ppest.org/atari/imgrun.php) works fine whit it and it's very cool to boot on MSA image disks 8)
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Postby bj » Tue Aug 21, 2007 12:04 am

Got my notice of despatch today. Yippee! Now up to 14 days checking the mail box. I'll be :) :( 8) two or three times a day until it arrives.
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Postby pop » Tue Aug 21, 2007 3:12 pm

yep,got mine too,things are really hotting up now. looking forward to the forum activity that this thing will generate.i think satandisk sticky is in order :D

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Postby ijor » Tue Aug 21, 2007 3:24 pm

Refit1701 wrote:Where's the link to where I can buy HDDriver?


Btw, seems (from a thread on Atariage) that some people think HDDriver must be used. That is not correct. You might want HDDriver because all the features and capabilities it has, but it is not required.

ppera

Postby ppera » Tue Aug 21, 2007 4:15 pm

Considering all what I see here about hard disk drivers suitable for Satandisk, I post here some features of driver in prepare.
It is IDE driver, but I can make ACSI version of it.
It will be not free, but will be cheap, and will require special partitioning - program for it will go with driver.

Special partitioning which is PC DOS/Win/Linux compatible and GemDOS compatible with up to 14 partitions per drive. Part. size limit is 511MB for TOS 1.4 and above, and 255MB for 1.02. First partition may be max. size too.
No need for BigDOS at all.
Option to swap C part with any other by booting - simple way for fast desktop config, AUTO progs. change.
Low RAM usage.
Intended mostly for gamers.

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Postby unseenmenace » Tue Aug 21, 2007 5:33 pm

Sounds very interesting Ppera
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Postby spiny » Wed Aug 22, 2007 4:40 pm

just picked mine up from the post office :)

I'm number: 051 ...

a quick question - what power supply voltage and amps does it need ?

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Postby spiny » Wed Aug 22, 2007 4:41 pm

doh, found it on the first line of the online manual ...

'scuse me while I dig through my spares bin :)

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Postby spiny » Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:17 pm

bah, my hard drive curse strikes back :/

hddriver doesn't show the device in the bus scan at all.

tried two different cards, a 16meg one and a 512 meg one.

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Postby tobe » Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:20 pm

GOT MINE TODAY :D

Now I'm gonna sleep with it until this weekend then I'll start experimentations :)

Thanks MiKRO & -XI- !
step 1: introduce bug, step 2: fix bug, step 3: goto step 1.

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Postby spiny » Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:43 pm

more encouraging news: I switched the power brick to the one from my Jaguar and hddriver saw it on boot, attempting formatting now :D

edit:


Image

:D :D

it really boots quick too!

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Postby DrCoolZic » Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:00 pm

I have been very busy lately and could not spend any time on my Atari for quite some time ... but when I received my SatanDisk today I could not resists testing it!

Here are my preliminary tests using information from this thread.

1) Drivers:
I wanted to test some free drivers. I have therefore tested AHDI (6.061 and 3.00), SCCI Tool 6.52, ICD Pro (6.5.5 and 6.2.4) and none of them work. The SatanDisk is either not recognized or is not responding… Someone mentioned on the thread that he failed using CBHD. So it seems that most popular free drivers do not seem to work with SatanDisk???
Therefore I have used hddriver 7.8. Would be interested if someone succeeded with another driver?
2) Test with hddriver:
Test with 128MB SD card: No problem just make sure you use one partition with Dos/Windows compatibility mode. Card can be used on Windows as normal.
Test with 2GB SD Card: Here the first surprise was to find out that only 1 GB is recognized by hddriver??? Problem is probably similar to the 1GB limitation on SCSI disk –group 0 command?
Next question is "How to use this GB"? If Dos/Windows compatibility is set then only one 1GB partition is allowed, but on an STE (TOS 1.6) the partition can’t be used as the limit is 256MB. This implies that I had to use 4 x 256MB partition and set the first one as bootable. Works great on the Atari but I don’t see them on PC. Thanks to ppera I used drimg132 on pc to access any of the partition and transfer files. Works like a charm but unfortunately no drag and drop capability to copy/transfer!
Conclusion: on an Atari STE you better stick to 256MB card for maximum usability (TOS4.0 is said to be able to read 1GB) and in any cases remember the hard limitation to 1GB.
3) Test on SatanDisk with SCSI drives
SCSI configuration: ICD SCSI board with one 1GB SCSI Drive + CD ROM SCSI drive.
Connection of the SatanDisk to the Atari and ICD board is done with a Cable “type B”.
First test with both ICD and SatanDisk at ACSI 0.0 does not work. As I do not know of a way to change the ICD ASCI address I decided to change the SatanDisk address to 1 using the set_id program from Jookie. Now the system is booting correctly from SCSI drive but there is no way to see the SatanDisk with hddriver.
To isolate the problem I have removed the ICD board and kept only the SatanDisk at id=1 connected to the Atari. In this condition Hdutil does report a drive @ acsi 1.0 (id check cmd) but ignore it for format/partition??? And therefore I did not found a way to use the SatanDisk when set to id 1?

I would love to be able to use at the same time my SCSI drives (through ICB board) to store information (data/programs) and SatanDisk as a transfer vehicle but I did not found any solution so far.

Any help/feedback is welcome
Jean

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Postby Strider » Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:24 pm

DrCoolZic wrote:If Dos/Windows compatibility is set then only one 1GB partition is allowed, but on an STE (TOS 1.6) the partition can’t be used as the limit is 256MB.


On an STE the limitation is 512 MB with HDDriver. That's what I did at home and it works very well :wink:
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Postby Mug UK » Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:38 pm

It's like being on a deserted island, sending out lots of messages in bottles about how good SatanDisk is .. and then all these bottles float back onto the shore :)

Welcome aboard all SatanDisk-ers :)

Now when are they making the next batch ... :)
My main site: http://www.mug-uk.co.uk - slowly digging up the bits from my past (and re-working a few): Atari ST, Sega 8-bit (game hacks) and NDS (Music ripping guide).

I develop a free Word (for Windows) add-in that's available for Word 2007 upwards. It's a fix-it toolbox that will allow power Word users to fix document errors. You can find it at: http://www.mikestoolbox.co.uk

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Postby spiny » Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:27 pm

I've just tried ADHI too, and couldn't get it to work either, it -sort- of works, as in if i booted with hddriver installed, ahdi would see the partition and let me install the SYS file, I then removed the hddriver file and rebooted - but it just booted to a low res desktop, ignoring the c drive AND the A drive.

needs more investigation I think :)

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Postby spiny » Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:29 pm

muguk wrote:It's like being on a deserted island, sending out lots of messages in bottles about how good SatanDisk is .. and then all these bottles float back onto the shore :)

Welcome aboard all SatanDisk-ers :)

Now when are they making the next batch ... :)


it's fornicating ace isn't it ? :)

apart from the speed (compared to an ancient scsi disk) theres the fact thats it's totally quiet! my protar unit rattles things on my desk and my megafile wakes up the dog when it spins up :D

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Postby DrCoolZic » Thu Aug 23, 2007 9:30 am

Strider wrote:
DrCoolZic wrote:If Dos/Windows compatibility is set then only one 1GB partition is allowed, but on an STE (TOS 1.6) the partition can’t be used as the limit is 256MB.


On an STE the limitation is 512 MB with HDDriver. That's what I did at home and it works very well :wink:


You are right with TOS 1.62 (1/1/90) boot partition of 512MB works fine. My mistake

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Postby DrCoolZic » Thu Aug 23, 2007 10:00 am

New test for having both SatanDisk and ICD adapter.
As previously describe connection using cable B ...
As you know ICD board maps SCSI devices in ACSI space so in my case without Satan Disk:
    ACSI 00.00 Seagate ST3610N ....
    ...
    ACSI 03.00 Plextor CD-R PX-R820T ...

    ...
    ACSI 06.00 ICD Real Time Clock
This is correctly reported by ICD Pro IDCHECK and SCSITOOL ID-TEST and HDUTIL (without SatanDisk connected).

I changed the ID of the SatanDisk from 0 to 2. I Powered off/on everything with the SatanDisk alone.
Hddriver now correctly finds SatanDisk:
    ACSI 02.00 StanDisk 957MB Direct Access
and I can partition / initialize / install driver ... Reboot and all works fine!

Now ICD SCSI adapter + SatanDisk at the same time.
System is booting correctly from SCSI HD using ICD Pro
However ICD IDCheck & SCSITOOL ID-test none of them see the SatanDisk at 02.00? Using IDCheck from HDDRIVER reports :
    ACSI 00.00 Seagate ...
    ACSI 02.00 ---------------------------
    ACSI 03.00 Plextor ...

    Therefore in 02.00 something is found but probably not correctly as report is garbage

    To avoid driver conflict : I reboot system but booting from HDDRIVER floppy (ALT key during boot) reports correctly the seagate and plextor drives but not satandisk and IDcheck gives same results ???

    If I turn off the ICD board and reboot systems it boots correctly from SatanDisk.

    Summary:
      both connected and powered => does not work
      One or the other powered => boot corectly from the powered device


Therefore look like a conflict somewhere. Actually as the ICD board uses the ACSI 00.00-07.00 it makes sense.

Next step is to try to use the pass through connector from ICD adapter to connect the SatanDisk. Unfortunately the board is sitting at the bottom of a nice enclosure and connector is not easely accessible ... I probably need to remove the devices to access the connector ...

By the way any idea on how to use 2GB SD card ???

ppera

Postby ppera » Thu Aug 23, 2007 12:16 pm

DrCoolZic wrote:...
2) Test with hddriver:
...
Test with 2GB SD Card: Here the first surprise was to find out that only 1 GB is recognized by hddriver??? Problem is probably similar to the 1GB limitation on SCSI disk –group 0 command?
Next question is "How to use this GB"? If Dos/Windows compatibility is set then only one 1GB partition is allowed, but on an STE (TOS 1.6) the partition can’t be used as the limit is 256MB. This implies that I had to use 4 x 256MB partition and set the first one as bootable. Works great on the Atari but I don’t see them on PC. Thanks to ppera I used drimg132 on pc to access any of the partition and transfer files. Works like a charm but unfortunately no drag and drop capability to copy/transfer!
..


Hmm... Is this means that 1GB is limit with Satandisk adapter?
Some other experiences? I mean, it is big drawback today - if it is really so, considering prices of cards.
512MB is the limit for TOS 1.4 and above (tested many times by me).

Drag & drop: I was on idea to make different system for reading Atari GemDOS partitioned hard disks on PC - by making driver for them. But it would be not so easy, and I hate to struggle through MS's documentation.

So, now I work on opposite aproach - working with full PC DOS FAT16 compatible partitions on Atari - it is solved, and such disks are fine readable under DOS, Win98, Linux, while Win XP sees only first partition of removable drives (where SD belongs too). It is not fatal, since there are some solutions to override it. So, may use what you like on PC - Total COmmander, Win Explorer, Norton Commander under DOS etc.
On Atari all will work with same speed as with AHDI partition table, price is only some 10KB lost space per partition.

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Postby jens » Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:03 pm

DrCoolZic wrote:New test for having both SatanDisk and ICD adapter.

1. Summary:
    both connected and powered => does not work
    One or the other powered => boot corectly from the powered device

2. Therefore look like a conflict somewhere. Actually as the ICD board uses the ACSI 00.00-07.00 it makes sense.

1. I had similar problems with an internal ICD adapter connected to my Mega ST long ago. I had to use an external adapter as well, as an SH or Megafile drive did not work at all.

2. No, it does not make sense that way. The ICD board just provides scsi capabilities to the bus and uses scsi id 6 for the clock. The other id's are used by the devices you connect - nothing more. SatanDisk should definately work! If it doesn't I suspect it's the ICD board that messes things up.
Greetings, Jens

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Postby DrCoolZic » Thu Aug 23, 2007 5:15 pm

jens wrote:2. No, it does not make sense that way. The ICD board just provides scsi capabilities to the bus and uses scsi id 6 for the clock. The other id's are used by the devices you connect - nothing more. SatanDisk should definately work! If it doesn't I suspect it's the ICD board that messes things up.

If you use HDDRIVER it differentiates the IDE, SCSI, and ACSI busses
All the drives connected to the ICD board are reported in on the ACSI bus and not on the SCSI bus!?!?
For example if the SCSI ID of a Drive connected to the ICD adapter is set to 0 then the disk is reported at address ACSI 00.00 + of course the RTC reported as ACSI 06.00.
As the SatanDisk is by default at ID 0 it is reported as ACSI 00.00 which conflict with SCSI drive 0.
As mentioned even when ID is set to 2 for SatanDisk it is not reported correctly when ICD board is powered up as it belong to the "ICD address space" ?!?

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Postby unseenmenace » Thu Aug 23, 2007 5:27 pm

DrCoolZic wrote:If you use HDDRIVER it differentiates the IDE, SCSI, and ACSI busses
All the drives connected to the ICD board are reported in on the ACSI bus and not on the SCSI bus!?!?

I believe the only devices that will show up under SCSI are those attached to a proper onboard SCSI controller such as those on the TT and Falcon
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Lynx 2 and Jaguar with JagCD
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Check out my website at http://unseenmenace.110mb.com


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