SatanDisk - first really working version

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Jookie
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SatanDisk - first really working version

Postby Jookie » Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:57 pm

So... I managed to kick the SatanDisk's ass to get it working (somehow ;-) ).

Summary:

- working SatanDisk - no bytes lost or screwed

- if you interupt the SatanDisk when working (when reading, writing) then the SatanDisk or the ST may keep hanging until the next next restart of ST and / or SatanDisk

- not tested with other ST/FM/E and SD/MMC card, so it still may require lot of testing, fixing and improving

- the data transfer speed: Write - 37 kB/s, Read - 50 kB/s - not much, but I don't know if I can improve this one

- kicked out the switch for setting the SatanDisk's ID - now this is set via software from ST - tested and working


Link: http://joo.kie.sk/satandisk/

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Postby CiH » Mon Nov 06, 2006 10:12 pm

Wow cool!

And good on you Jookie! :-)
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Congratz Jookie

Postby MisterT » Mon Nov 06, 2006 10:53 pm

Woohoo good working jookie
Keep us posted on any updates :)

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Postby unseenmenace » Tue Nov 07, 2006 12:35 am

This is great news. I look forward to hearing of any further developments or maybe a release date? This is exactly what I want to fit a 2.5" IDE drive into my STE so I am willing to pay :)
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Postby ijor » Tue Nov 07, 2006 6:43 am

Yeah, excellent news! 8)

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Postby Jookie » Tue Nov 07, 2006 6:43 am

Thank you, guys! ;-) This may be the first project that I will really finish :D

unseenmenace wrote:maybe a release date?

Well, I have to test it with more different HW, I will try to improve things and then will be 'the release' (hard to say what the release is since the HW, FW and SW is published on my web from the start for free).

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Postby Greenious » Tue Nov 07, 2006 8:24 am

Cool! Keep up the good work!
Updated my guides as of june 28th, 2016. Check'em out and feedback!
viewtopic.php?t=5040

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Postby simonsunnyboy » Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:08 am

This is more than excellent news! I'm really looking forward to be able to attach a SD card as a harddrive to my STE.
Throuput seems still above floppy so it is acceptable.

Keep up the good work, this is one of the most interesting hardare related projects going on for the Atari ST at the moment.
Simon Sunnyboy/Paradize - http://paradize.atari.org/

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Postby karlm » Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:51 pm

Jookie, the Slovakian Harddisk-pimp :)

Nice work Jookie! See, you didn't really need that logic analyser after all :)

keep us all posted!

cheers

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Postby sniperstorm » Tue Nov 07, 2006 11:59 pm

what is satandisk?
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Postby karlm » Wed Nov 08, 2006 12:25 am

It allows SD cards to be used like a hard disk on the ST.

check out Jookie's page ...

http://joo.kie.sk/satandisk/

cheers

karlm.

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Postby sniperstorm » Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:17 am

OK ill take one!!! When are they going to be out?
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Postby Jookie » Wed Nov 08, 2006 8:09 am

sniperstorm wrote:When are they going to be out?


I don't know ;-) Have to do some test to make it work really reliably, but I think it may take a month...

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Re: SatanDisk - first really working version

Postby alexh » Wed Nov 08, 2006 11:57 pm

Jookie wrote:- the data transfer speed: Write - 37 kB/s, Read - 50 kB/s - not much, but I don't know if I can improve this one

What is the maximum bandwidth of the ACSI port anyhow? Is this speed an implementation limitation? An SD/MMC limitation or an ACSI limitation?
Just curious. Great work btw.

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Postby sniperstorm » Thu Nov 09, 2006 12:06 am

Well the pc be able to read the cards also?
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Postby Jookie » Thu Nov 09, 2006 6:56 am

sniperstorm wrote:Well the pc be able to read the cards also?


Well, if you will create a DOS partition and will be able to read it on ST, then yes. Or on the PC you could create a image of the card and then use it with various software (Steem + Pasti, ARAnyM, (Linux ?)).

alexh wrote:What is the maximum bandwidth of the ACSI port anyhow?


Could be something around the 1 MB/s.

alexh wrote:Is this speed an implementation limitation?


Yes, probably... I will try to improve that. Actualy it does about 100 kB/s read (the 50 kB/s was from my testing utility, but the TOS can do better ;-) ).

alexh wrote:An SD/MMC limitation or an ACSI limitation?


Probably none of these. The card showed that it can read atleast 250 kB/s at the current freqeuncy of Atmel... This is when you only read from the card. If you add also writing to ST, then you end up with the 125 kB/s ;-)

ppera

Postby ppera » Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:59 pm

I bought yesterday 1GB SD card for some 25 euro.
Read speed is 4.5 MB/sec and write speed is 3.5 MB/sec via cheap USB card reader. With some better reader read speed would be certainly much higher.

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Postby Jookie » Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:34 pm

ppera wrote:I bought yesterday 1GB SD card for some 25 euro.
Read speed is 4.5 MB/sec and write speed is 3.5 MB/sec via cheap USB card reader. With some better reader read speed would be certainly much higher.


Yes, that's possible. But with the Atmel running @ 16 MHz and the SPI bus running @ 8 MHz (maximum frequencies for ATmega16), you are a bit limited (serial link running @ 8MHz means 0.8 MB/s idealy without the memory access times and wait-states). Also the card-readers don't use the (serial) SPI mode of transfer, but the the (paralel) MMC or SD mode of transfer.

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Postby daeghnao » Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:50 pm

Jookie wrote:
sniperstorm wrote:Well the pc be able to read the cards also?


Well, if you will create a DOS partition and will be able to read it on ST, then yes. Or on the PC you could create a image of the card and then use it with various software (Steem + Pasti, ARAnyM, (Linux ?)).


I believe mtools can access the Atari filesystem OK, and may be able to mount it as well. Soon as I get hold of one of these crazy little devices, I can give it a go :)

ppera

Postby ppera » Fri Nov 10, 2006 1:04 pm

Gemulator explorer should work with Atari hard disks. But I doubt that it will work with USB devices, if will work at all in Windows XP.

Actually, Atari hard disks (partitions) should be same as PC ones, only with swapped Low/High byte in words.

I will try following: reading image from Atari hard disk (IDE Flash) with my program Drive Image, then swap Low/High and try to read it with Winimage.

It will be not this week - my Atari is dead now (second one in last 2 months), so I need to fix it, or move IDE IF in another one (lot of soldering).

@Jookie:

Don't worry much about speed: Microsoft's Active Sync TM works also very slow. Some 20-50 KB/sec via otherwise 100 times faster card reader :D.

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Postby Jookie » Sat Nov 11, 2006 11:01 pm

OK, guys, so I've put some files on card using my ST and SatanDisk, inserted the card into my card reader, created an image of it with WinImage (demo version), configured Steem 3.2 + Pasti.dll and it works ;-) The Steem now uses the image with no problems :)

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Postby simonsunnyboy » Sun Nov 12, 2006 7:53 am

That is very good news indeed! Will make it a lot easier to exchange data with the ST then! (Hardly any floppies needed then!)
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Postby ppera » Sun Nov 12, 2006 2:08 pm

Jookie wrote:OK, guys, so I've put some files on card using my ST and SatanDisk, inserted the card into my card reader, created an image of it with WinImage (demo version), configured Steem 3.2 + Pasti.dll and it works ;-) The Steem now uses the image with no problems :)


What partition types You used on card? PC or Atari?

Or it is Steem which can works with 'standard Atari' Winimage images?

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Postby ijor » Sun Nov 12, 2006 3:06 pm

Jookie wrote:OK, guys, so I've put some files on card using my ST and SatanDisk, inserted the card into my card reader, created an image of it with WinImage (demo version), configured Steem 3.2 + Pasti.dll and it works ;-) The Steem now uses the image with no problems :)


I could implement support for "mounting" a partition directly. This way you wouldn't need to use something like WinImage. Shouldn't be too much work.

The main problem is that this would require Administrator priviledges. I guess it might still be worth. But I suppose it would be much better to use some PC application that could read Atari partitions directly without any need of using an emulator at all.

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Postby Jookie » Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:23 am

ppera wrote:What partition types You used on card? PC or Atari?


I have aprox. 6 GEM partitions on the card from which the image was created. The reading from image with Steem + Pasti.dll was fine, but everytime I try to write something to the partition in the image, the emulated ST crashes (may be some issue of Steem vs. Pasti vs. HDDRIVER or what).

Maybe Ijor could test it (I would send him the image ;-) ).

ppera wrote:Or it is Steem which can works with 'standard Atari' Winimage images?


I think that Steem +Pasti.dl can work with raw image of the Atari hard-disk. The WinImage can create such (raw) hard-drive images.

ijor wrote:But I suppose it would be much better to use some PC application that could read Atari partitions directly without any need of using an emulator at all.


That's what I thought of too. I was thinking of remaking the Ext2 plugin for Total Commander so it would work with Atari images.... But that would take me a month or more...

Or to make a "compression" plugin for the Total Commander for accessing the Atari partitions - you could then open the Atari Image in TC like you can open, browse, copy and delete directories and files inside of .zip file...


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