Announcing the Lightning ST - USB & IDE for STs

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Re: Announcing the Lightning ST - USB & IDE for STs

Postby ThorstenOtto » Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:59 pm

I'm not czietz, but:
Supported devices: USB mice, keyboards, storage (like USB flash drives), printer.


Next time i write a program, i'll have to find some way that people's network is shut down until they've read at least the readme...

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Re: Announcing the Lightning ST - USB & IDE for STs

Postby wongck » Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:53 am

RTFM
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Re: Announcing the Lightning ST - USB & IDE for STs

Postby Fujiyama » Fri Sep 06, 2019 5:23 am

Apart from the announcement posting I didn't see any reference to a readme. Where is it?

But I should have clarified my question a little better: I do see in the first posting in this thread that it supports USB keyboards and mice, but I'm wondering, since other USB keyboard solutions presented in this forum haven't actually worked from before loading drivers into memory, will USB work here from the very start (completely replacing the functionality of the original ST keyboard), so that for instance in TOS 2.06 you can disable the memory test, and also the various keyboard combinations at bootup for disabling accessories, AUTO folder software etc?
In my case I'm doing away with the Atari STe keyboard completely.
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Re: Announcing the Lightning ST - USB & IDE for STs

Postby czietz » Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:16 am

USB keyboard and mouse works, but it needs a driver -- obviously, since TOS predates USB by a decade or so, it does not have USB drivers included. Drivers can only be loaded after the memory check. (But you could patch that out.)

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Re: Announcing the Lightning ST - USB & IDE for STs

Postby Fujiyama » Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:23 am

Yes, that makes sense.
By having it as the first driver in the AUTO folder (and if memory test is patched out in TOS 2.06), will a USB keyboard (and USB mouse) work exactly in the same way as the original Atari mouse and keyboard?

I had a look at the Atari wiki Lightning VME info-text (there's no ST Lightning wiki info yet) and it says "USB keyboard (in planning)" -have USB keyboards been tested with the board yet? Do any USB keyboards not work or can I choose any type?
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Re: Announcing the Lightning ST - USB & IDE for STs

Postby troed » Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:42 pm

Fujiyama wrote:Yes, that makes sense.
By having it as the first driver in the AUTO folder (and if memory test is patched out in TOS 2.06), will a USB keyboard (and USB mouse) work exactly in the same way as the original Atari mouse and keyboard?

I had a look at the Atari wiki Lightning VME info-text (there's no ST Lightning wiki info yet) and it says "USB keyboard (in planning)" -have USB keyboards been tested with the board yet? Do any USB keyboards not work or can I choose any type?


It would work in all nicely written apps using TOS input. Lots of games aren't.

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Re: Announcing the Lightning ST - USB & IDE for STs

Postby czietz » Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:36 pm

Looks like the wiki text needs updating, sorry. The keyboard support is not "in planning" anymore. It is working fine ever since I wrote the driver for it. Any keyboard works, on the Lightning VME and ST. Atari-specific keys (Help, Undo, ...) are mapped to keys as well.

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Re: Announcing the Lightning ST - USB & IDE for STs

Postby Fujiyama » Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:46 pm

That's good to hear.

Is it correct what Troed said, that it would work only with nicely written software?
In other forum discussions on the subject of USB keyboard support it's been (if I'm not mistaken) talk about replacing the ST keyboard connector's input with an IKBD/USB-HID interface which I believe the ST fully believes is just a regular ST keyboard, so then it would function just as an Atari keyboard (I'm guessing this is how the Eiffel interface works, only with PS/2 support instead). Is the USB keyboard support of the Lightning ST similar?
I'm using a lot of "not written nicely" software, but I need a USB interface which can handle USB keyboards nevertheless.

On another note... what kind of IC socket pins have you used for the CPU on the board? (see red markings in attached photo borrowed from your first posting).
I'm working on a project which needs something similar but can't seem to find anything with "through the PCB" length other than thick wire-wrap sockets/pins which of course mess up the IC socket underneath. Sorry about the slightly off-topic question.
lightning_sockets.jpg
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Re: Announcing the Lightning ST - USB & IDE for STs

Postby ThorstenOtto » Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:50 pm

Plugging it in the keyboard connector would only work for keyboard/mouse/joystick. But the lightning also gives access to USB storage devices and IDE.

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Re: Announcing the Lightning ST - USB & IDE for STs

Postby czietz » Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:16 am

No, the Lightning ST does not connect to the IKBD connector. If you want that, I think the CosmosEx has that feature. There are afaik also dedicated interfaces that only allow you to use a USB keyboard. (The Lightning ST/VME also supports storage, mice, printers, Ethernet adapters, ... Whatever one writes a driver for.)

As for the sockets: I'm not the one doing the component selection, but afaik these are regular turned socket contacts.

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Re: Announcing the Lightning ST - USB & IDE for STs

Postby Fujiyama » Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:54 pm

czietz wrote:No, the Lightning ST does not connect to the IKBD connector. If you want that, I think the CosmosEx has that feature. There are afaik also dedicated interfaces that only allow you to use a USB keyboard. (The Lightning ST/VME also supports storage, mice, printers, Ethernet adapters, ... Whatever one writes a driver for.)


Appears to be a flexible and expandable system!
But it can stop working in software which isn't cleanly written? I don't mind if it connects to the CPU or keyboard connector as long as it works in any software.

Yes, I know there have been several USB keyboard projects. I'll take a closer look to see if there have been some new developments lately.

As for the sockets: I'm not the one doing the component selection, but afaik these are regular turned socket contacts.


Yes, looks like those have been used, but it puzzles me how those pins go into the Atari motherboard's CPU socket. Maybe someone with a Lightning ST could post a photo of it from underneath?

These are the only turned sockets I've found (see attachements):
Turned SIL socket (used in the Lightning ST?)
turned SIL socket.jpg


Turned wire-wrap SIL socket (same as above, but with long pins)
turned SIL socket wire wrap.jpg


Turned SIL pin header (mounted underneath, bottom pins plug into an IC socket)
turned SIL header.jpg


The wire-wrap SIL sockets appear ideal except the legs are too wide and will probably damage the Atari CPU socket which the board plugs into.
Unless there's another socket with long legs which goes through the Lightning ST board and is equally thin and fits perfectly into a standard IC socket I can only think of an "offset" solution where the turned SIL socket goes on the top of the Lightning PCB, and from the underneath a turned SIL header is soldered into the Lightning board (obviously mounted besides the header solder mounting holes). But from the picture this doesn't seem to be used...
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Re: Announcing the Lightning ST - USB & IDE for STs

Postby czietz » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:43 pm

Since it does not connect to the IKBD port, it will not work with programs querying the IKBD directly -- such as some games might do, as troed pointed out. (However, we didn't get any complaints about this design choice from Lightning VME owners, yet.)

I can post a photo when I'm back home. But as I've already said, it uses turned sockets; no "offset solution" required.

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Re: Announcing the Lightning ST - USB & IDE for STs

Postby Fujiyama » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:54 pm

czietz wrote:Since it does not connect to the IKBD port, it will not work with programs querying the IKBD directly -- such as some games might do, as troed pointed out. (However, we didn't get any complaints about this design choice from Lightning VME owners, yet.)


I won't be using it with games but mainly MIDI software (Notator etc. -I know it uses some non-standard programming though this might not affect this part of the hardware).


I can post a photo when I'm back home. But as I've already said, it uses turned sockets; no "offset solution" required.


Thanks. Much appreciated :-D
I just can't understand how those turned sockets' legs can go through the Lightning PCB and still reach into the Atari CPU socket underneath. A picture will probably clear it all up.
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Re: Announcing the Lightning ST - USB & IDE for STs

Postby Atarieterno » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:21 pm

czietz wrote: ...I can post a photo when I'm back home...



Yesterday I received the order, now I need the instructions to mount the device on a Mega ST4, obviously I prefer it before the STfm but I will also buy another one for him later.

Ligthning ST.jpg
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Re: Announcing the Lightning ST - USB & IDE for STs

Postby czietz » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:29 pm

As far as I know, the instructions are in the README on the floppy disk. Basically, it is: solder the socket on top of the CPU. (No need to unsolder the CPU.) Plug the Lightning ST in. Connect (at minimum) the power cables, as described in the README, optionally for IDE also the interrupt line -- again, that should be described in the README, too.

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Re: Announcing the Lightning ST - USB & IDE for STs

Postby Atarieterno » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:36 pm

czietz wrote:As far as I know, the instructions are in the README on the floppy disk. Basically, it is: solder the socket on top of the CPU. (No need to unsolder the CPU.) Plug the Lightning ST in. Connect (at minimum) the power cables, as described in the README, optionally for IDE also the interrupt line -- again, that should be described in the README, too.



I suppose that a tutorial with images will be published, as was done with the Lightning VME.
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Re: Announcing the Lightning ST - USB & IDE for STs

Postby czietz » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:42 pm

Yes, it will. In the meantime: if anything in the readme is unclear, please ask Matthias directly -- via the email address you used for your order. We've already taken photos of the installation in different Ataris. But since I'm currently traveling, I don't have access to them.

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Re: Announcing the Lightning ST - USB & IDE for STs

Postby czietz » Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:49 pm

Fujiyama wrote:
I can post a photo when I'm back home. But as I've already said, it uses turned sockets; no "offset solution" required.

Thanks. Much appreciated :-D


Photo, as promised:
IMG_3754.JPG


PS: It's the Lightning ST with serial no. 001. :D
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Re: Announcing the Lightning ST - USB & IDE for STs

Postby Fujiyama » Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:52 pm

Cool :D
Thank you Czietz!

Yes, it's definitely some kind of pin header with normal thickness pins which goes all the way through the PCB. The only ones I've seen are much shorter (won't allow plugging into an IC socket from underneath).
I'll keep looking, now that I see it's available.
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Re: Announcing the Lightning ST - USB & IDE for STs

Postby Utri007 » Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:37 pm

I just made my order. Want to get one for my STfm.

Installation instructions are in floppy, but I don't have a one. I use gotek with flashfloppy firmware. Are they availlable for image format?
Is there a long line to get one?

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Re: Announcing the Lightning ST - USB & IDE for STs

Postby Atarieterno » Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:00 pm

Any posts about the tutorial with images to install on the STfm and the Mega ST?
The Lightning VME is perfectly explained.
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