Need help with 1040 repair

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patzik
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Need help with 1040 repair

Postby patzik » Tue May 07, 2019 8:05 pm

I bought an atari stf 1040, but there seems to be a problem with it. I have done many repairs on commodore 64,amiga and zx spectrum computers but not and atari so I am hoping to get some help.
This is the screen I get when turning on the computer. Looks like a ram problem, but since there are 32 ram chips I don't want to desolder them all to test them. Any suggestions?

IMG_1242 (1).jpg
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Re: Need help with 1040 repair

Postby Greenious » Wed May 08, 2019 8:08 am

Start with checking the socketed IC's, particularly the MMU. Reseating is almost always your first course of action, making sure they have proper connection and no oxide is causing problems.

If that doesn't help, you could try with a diagnostic cartridge, it has a ram test that should help you deduce which ram is broken, if that is the problem.
Updated my guides as of june 28th, 2016. Check'em out and feedback!
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Re: Need help with 1040 repair

Postby Robson » Wed May 08, 2019 12:44 pm

Is this the one from a facebook group? I've given few guides there with photos that can help. It's in the Atari st and ste users fb group.
I had the same pattern and 2 faulty ICs, that sorted me out. I think the guy in the post still not going anywhere...and here is where the diag cart wins.
This is the link to that conversation, might worth to join the group and have a look.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1331613 ... 251204214/

You might want to borrow one from somebody or send the board. Depending on your location. (I'm sorry mine is in constant use so I can only offer to have a look at the board in the UK, not to send the cart). Maybe there's a webshop offering it, I remember seeing it.
You can also build one, the sources are available widely.
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patzik
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Re: Need help with 1040 repair

Postby patzik » Wed May 08, 2019 4:51 pm

I forgot to mention, I replaced the glue and emu and the ic under the metal cover with known working ic's (Yes I do have spare's).
This made no change. Unfortunately I don't have the test cartridge, looking into making a batch.

Joined the facebook page, request pending...

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Robson
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Re: Need help with 1040 repair

Postby Robson » Thu May 09, 2019 6:31 am

Try this guy it's says in stock, also cheaper than a batch and a good excuse to buy a mste/tt too:
http://www.gossuin.be/index.php/shop
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patzik
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Re: Need help with 1040 repair

Postby patzik » Thu May 09, 2019 7:34 am

I just got access to the facebook page.
That first post looks 100% identical to the screen I get!! Interesting....

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Re: Need help with 1040 repair

Postby grobda » Fri May 10, 2019 1:19 pm

you could always try probing the output pins of the ram. best with a scope but even a logic probe may determine a faulty chip. I've fixed a C64 and old arcade boards this way.

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Re: Need help with 1040 repair

Postby patzik » Mon May 20, 2019 8:54 am

I bought the test cartridge as suggested by Robson, with this cartridge I get the following screen.

IMG_1257 (1).jpg


Any suggestions?
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frank.lukas
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Re: Need help with 1040 repair

Postby frank.lukas » Mon May 20, 2019 10:05 am

Use a null-modem cable and a serial terminal program running on a other computer. 9600Baud/8N1

D9-10-11.jpg


D9-10-11-error.jpg
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Re: Need help with 1040 repair

Postby patzik » Mon May 20, 2019 5:06 pm

I saw the diagrom for the amiga is converted to atari, wanted to try this also, but I have a 6 rom atari, and can only find the 2 rom splitted version. Don't wanna start messing with splitting the roms and when it doesn't work not knowing if it's the roms or the atari. Anyone have the 6 roms version by any chance?

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Re: Need help with 1040 repair

Postby czietz » Mon May 20, 2019 5:16 pm

Imho (and let me stress that this is just my opinion) the diagrom is not superior to the original Atari diagnostic. Also, diagrom will not be able to magically fix your 1040's RAM -- so you'll most likely get a garbled screen and only serial output with diagrom, as well. I would so as Frank said and simply connect a serial cable and continue using the diagnostic cartridge.

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Re: Need help with 1040 repair

Postby Robson » Wed May 22, 2019 10:31 am

I should have explained that too, sorry. A serial cable and a serial to usb will work. I use a modern(ish) laptop for this, running hyperterminal.exe. All works well.
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Re: Need help with 1040 repair

Postby jd » Fri May 24, 2019 2:47 pm

What did the terminal program say the issue was?

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Re: Need help with 1040 repair

Postby patzik » Fri May 31, 2019 4:30 pm

I lost my serial cable, been looking for it everywhere but it's somewhere hidden in the mess here. Anyhow I ordered the wireless serial dongle from arananet and this is working. So I get the screen as indicated above where I see the wrong data bit's. Now the question is, which ic corresponds with the bits? I have 2 rows of 16 chips, so 32 in total.

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Re: Need help with 1040 repair

Postby czietz » Fri May 31, 2019 4:41 pm

There are so many entirely different ST board layouts that it's impossible to give a general answer to question which chip corresponds to which bit. One row is the lower bank (0 - 512 kiB), the other one is the upper bank (512 kiB - 1 MiB). Each chip in a row is connected to one of sixteen data lines.

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Re: Need help with 1040 repair

Postby Robson » Fri May 31, 2019 6:24 pm

Post photos of board and error message.
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Re: Need help with 1040 repair

Postby patzik » Sat Jun 01, 2019 1:04 pm

What I could see is that bit 0 was the problem, I looked for schematics but could not find any for this board, seems to be a bit of a rare board.
So what I did was use the logic probe to measure the data pin on each chip to see if I could spot the chip. And when touching two of the chips there was a strange signal and also the screen was behaving differently than the static picture I would get without touching anything. Since the data signal of these chips are connected it seemed logical that one of them was bad. So I desoldered and socketed both chips.
Result....
IMG_1284.jpg

Problem found! So now the only thing left was to source a replacement chip, looking on the internet I saw the same chips were used on the older amiga 500 boards and the older a501 memory expansions. I have a few of those lying around, and one of the 501's I have is this older model with 16 of these ram chips. I don't really need this board, and it had the usual battery damage so I decided to use it for spares, now I have 15 more spare chips :D

These are the chips that supposedly are d0 on this board, would have never guessed it... U54 on top and U16 on bottom. U16 was the one that was bad.
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Re: Need help with 1040 repair

Postby patzik » Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:45 pm

Now I am still not fully done with this machine, and still need some help.
When turning on the atari I get a semi high beepy sound, that is continuous and stays beeping (beeps are about .5 sec and keep going).
I don't exactly know how to describe this sound, but the other atari I have, has the exact same thing. When loading a game the beeping disappears, and sound is normal. Is this normal system behaviour of an atari 1040st? Would be hard to believe since it is very annoying. my screen is connected via the big din plug.

Another thing is, it has a 6 chip version of TOS UK 1.0, what would be the benefit of upgrading and how can it be done on this board, since there are no jumpers to make it a 2 chip version. I noticed booting without a drive is 'fast',booting with the gotek I have connected for testing is quite slow, is this better with a newer tos?

Also just out of curiosity, there seems to have been a mod in it in the past, on the cpu there is a socket, which is (now) unpopulated. What could this have been for?

IMG_1285.jpg

IMG_1283.jpg
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Re: Need help with 1040 repair

Postby czietz » Sat Jun 01, 2019 3:23 pm

Keyboard disconnected? You get continuous key-click sounds when the keyboard is not connected. Otherwise please make a short video/audio recording so that it's better understandable what you mean by "semi high beepy sound".

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Re: Need help with 1040 repair

Postby czietz » Sat Jun 01, 2019 5:41 pm

As for TOS upgrades: TOS 1.04 is the newest version to run without hardware modifications (newest except for EmuTOS, of course ;-)). TOS 1.04 is a must when you plan to use bigger storage media than floppy/Gotek, e.g. hard drives. Other than that is fixes a lot of bugs and adds some new features: https://docs.dev-docs.org/htm/search.php?find=C398240

You can split a TOS image to 6 files and burn it to EPROMs or buy ready-made sets from stores like Exxos': https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/last/storenew/#0119.

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Re: Need help with 1040 repair

Postby Atari030 » Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:17 am

The socket may have been for a PC emulator, a lot of them piggy back the CPU.

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Re: Need help with 1040 repair

Postby patzik » Sun Jun 02, 2019 12:12 pm

You were right about the keyboard, this was causing the 'beeping'. :D

Connected the keyboard and all was well..... until I did a full ram test.

IMG_1290.jpg


Looks like I'm going to need some of that spare ram already :D

So it's bit15 that is bad, I can't find a good schematic for the board, and the logic probe didn't help this time, and suggestions on how to trace the bad chip? Is d15 always on the same pin on another chip, so I could do a continuity test to find the ram chip?

Board is C070523-001 Rev D
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Re: Need help with 1040 repair

Postby czietz » Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:00 pm

Bit 15 is connected to pin 19 of the Shifter IC. As mentioned above, there are two RAM chips on your board for bit 15, depending on the address.

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Re: Need help with 1040 repair

Postby patzik » Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:11 pm

Thanks for the help, I was looking at the schematic and figured it was the shifter I could use, so I was desoldering the ic for bit 15 just now.

IMG_1291.jpg


Oooh seriously...

Desolder another ram chip, good thing I have all those spares!

IMG_1292.jpg


Bingo!

To test the ports I guess I need a harness of some sort, like I have for the c64 diagnostic cartridge. Where can I find a schematic for that?
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Re: Need help with 1040 repair

Postby patzik » Sun Jun 02, 2019 1:14 pm

This was my first atari st repair, took some time, but was great to work on.
Don't know yet if I'm going to do any upgrades, might just use it with the gotek and play some games.

Thanks for all the help to everyone involved!


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