Performance roundup: CF, SD, IDE HD, PATA SSD, SATA SSD on TT Thunder

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Performance roundup: CF, SD, IDE HD, PATA SSD, SATA SSD on TT Thunder

Postby Gaiyan » Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:39 pm

I'm looking at different options for hard drives for my Thunder. I've initially used an IDE2SD adapter (Sintech) with mediocre performance.

Recently I upgraded to a 32GB CF card with a nice performance boost as can be seen here:
DSC00172-1280x327.JPG


Pretty impressive. However, I began to get curious of how a modern SATA SSD would fare on an IDE device. I bought a Kingston A400 120GB today and slapped it on an IDE2SATA adapter. I had, in fact, two adapters with clear performance differences. I picked the faster one and the result is here:
DSC00171-1280x372.JPG


So pretty similar results with the CF being slightly faster, right? Not quite. How_Fast tells a different story. Tests were run with the following; Smallest block 100KB, Largest block 3MB, Number of tests 30:

Here's the CF
DSC00175-1280x715.JPG


And here's the SSD
DSC00174-1280x667.JPG


Quite a different story with CF having write speeds fluctuate quite a bit. I don't what kind of garbage collection and wear leveling CF cards have, if any. I know that this SSD has and is obviously independent of OS. TRIM in Win/Mac just enhances garbage collection, not supersedes it. Therefore the garbage collection is fine on the Atari computers, especially with sizes like 120GB.

I'm expecting a 32GB Kingspec PATA/IDE SSD to drop in the mailbox any day now. I'd like to see if there is a significant performance hit from using a SATA2IDE adapter.
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Re: CF vs SATA SSD on TT Thunder

Postby dhedberg » Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:01 pm

Interesting! Looking forward to the results. Where did you buy the PATA SSD from? Conrad?
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Re: CF vs SATA SSD on TT Thunder

Postby wongck » Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:41 pm

The results looks as expected.
The max speed is probably limited by the speed of Thunder ( what PIO number is it? ).

Most of these device have onboard cache buffering so that the write-level stuff have time to work.
The SSD probably have more cache than the CF. So CF need to wait to flush cache to memory while SSD do not. Try to make block to larger (64MB ? depends on your RAM) and see if it fills the cache.

What I have read is that China SSD uses lower standard chipset and may be cache-less, that's why it performance is slower. You may see the same as your CF depending on how much cache it has. So that KingSpec result would be interesting.

Also have you tried Industrial CF??
All my Industrial CF works on the Atari while some of my consumer CF failed.
I think plenty of ppl on this forum had issues are with consumer CF.
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Re: CF vs SATA SSD on TT Thunder

Postby Gaiyan » Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:43 am

wongck wrote:The results looks as expected.
The max speed is probably limited by the speed of Thunder ( what PIO number is it? ).

Most of these device have onboard cache buffering so that the write-level stuff have time to work.
The SSD probably have more cache than the CF. So CF need to wait to flush cache to memory while SSD do not. Try to make block to larger (64MB ? depends on your RAM) and see if it fills the cache.

What I have read is that China SSD uses lower standard chipset and may be cache-less, that's why it performance is slower. You may see the same as your CF depending on how much cache it has. So that KingSpec result would be interesting.

Also have you tried Industrial CF??
All my Industrial CF works on the Atari while some of my consumer CF failed.
I think plenty of ppl on this forum had issues are with consumer CF.


Good insight! I have 256MB TT-Ram so I'll try a larger block. My understanding is that this particular Kingspec has a Silicon Motion SM2236 controller. Same brand controller is used today by Crucial and WD for example.

I haven't tested industrial CFs yet. Don't have any atm.

dhedberg wrote:Interesting! Looking forward to the results. Where did you buy the PATA SSD from? Conrad?


Got it from eBay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/KingSpec-PATA- ... 2749.l2649
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Re: CF vs SATA SSD on TT Thunder

Postby joska » Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:08 am

Gaiyan wrote:I've initially used an IDE2SD adapter (Sintech) with mediocre performance.


Have you been using Class 4 cards? Because the Sintechi IDE->SD adapters performs much better on my Firebee than your CF/SSD figures in this post when I'm using Class 10 cards. I get around 7.5Mb/s, which is the same as I get on the CF card in the same machine.
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Re: CF vs SATA SSD on TT Thunder

Postby Gaiyan » Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:24 am

joska wrote:
Gaiyan wrote:I've initially used an IDE2SD adapter (Sintech) with mediocre performance.


Have you been using Class 4 cards? Because the Sintechi IDE->SD adapters performs much better on my Firebee than your CF/SSD figures in this post when I'm using Class 10 cards. I get around 7.5Mb/s, which is the same as I get on the CF card in the same machine.


I have used a Kingston Class 10 32GB SDXC SDHC card.
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Re: CF vs SATA SSD on TT Thunder

Postby joska » Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:20 am

That's strange... What was the actual performance? And what kind of adapter did you use? I'm using this one:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/44-Pin-Male- ... SweM1Z-dZr

With Class 10 cards performance is better than any Atari hardware I've used it on, my Milan060 included.
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Re: CF vs SATA SSD on TT Thunder

Postby wongck » Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:33 pm

Jo's right, when I change my SD to class 10, it was flying.
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Re: CF vs SATA SSD on TT Thunder

Postby Gaiyan » Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:48 pm

joska wrote:That's strange... What was the actual performance? And what kind of adapter did you use? I'm using this one:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/44-Pin-Male- ... SweM1Z-dZr

With Class 10 cards performance is better than any Atari hardware I've used it on, my Milan060 included.


Yes, that looks identical to mine. I don't remember the exact values but low enough (compared to Thunder's potential) to look at other and quite expensive options.

But I'll try do a showdown between:

IDE 3.5" HD, SD Class 4, SD Class 10, CF UDMA 7, PATA SSD, and SATA SSD. Just waiting for that bloody PATA SSD. Been stuck somewhere for a week...
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Re: Performance roundup: CF, SD, IDE HD, PATA SSD, SATA SSD on TT Thunder

Postby Gaiyan » Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:02 pm

Finally received the IDE SSD in the mail. Finicky bastard to get going. I could only get it to work on one 2.5->3.5 adapter. And only then with an 80-pin UDMA cable in CS mode. Other cables and master settings either didn't work or gave corrupted info in HDDRIVER. Needs more research.

Anyway, preliminary results are promising. So far (and expected) the highest xferrate results, although by a minute margin. 5580KBps and 5560KBps. However, running HOW_FAST gave excellent results especially with 64MB.

Will set it up and plan my benchmark tests and do further research. I think I might stick with this option. Let's see about the longterm dependability.
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Re: Performance roundup: CF, SD, IDE HD, PATA SSD, SATA SSD on TT Thunder

Postby wongck » Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:42 pm

Great to know that it's faster, so it's not cache-less as some reports indicated.
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Re: Performance roundup: CF, SD, IDE HD, PATA SSD, SATA SSD on TT Thunder

Postby Gaiyan » Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:19 am

I've been sitting on these results for several months now and can't seem to find the time to do a proper write-up. So I'll dump them here for you guys to see.

I did two different tests using How Fast. I've named them SM (small) and XL (extra large). Here are the settings for them:

SM
TESTSM.GIF


XL
TESTXL.GIF


Here are the results of the various drives:

3.5" Maxtor 160GB PATA133 SM
IDEHDSM.GIF


3.5" Maxtor 160GB PATA133 XL
IDEHDXL.GIF


TrueIDE 32GB CF SM
CFTRUESM.GIF


TrueIDE 32GB CF XL
CFTRUEXL.GIF
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Re: Performance roundup: CF, SD, IDE HD, PATA SSD, SATA SSD on TT Thunder

Postby Gaiyan » Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:25 am

PATA SSD SM
PSSDSM.GIF


PATA SSD XL
PSSDXL.GIF


32GB SD SM
SD32GBSM.GIF


32GB SD XL
SD32GBXL.GIF


8GB SD SM
SDHC8GB.GIF


8GB SD XL
SDHC8GBX.GIF
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Re: Performance roundup: CF, SD, IDE HD, PATA SSD, SATA SSD on TT Thunder

Postby Gaiyan » Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:28 am

SATA Adapter #1 SSD Kingston A400 120GB SM
SSSD1SM.GIF


SATA Adapter #1 SSD Kingston A400 120GB XL
SSSD1XL.GIF


SATA Adapter #2 SSD Kingston A400 120GB SM
SSSD2SM.GIF


SATA Adapter #2 SSD Kingston A400 120GB XL
SSSD2XL.GIF
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Re: Performance roundup: CF, SD, IDE HD, PATA SSD, SATA SSD on TT Thunder

Postby joska » Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:58 pm

So basically it doesn't matter, performance is pretty much identical.
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Re: Performance roundup: CF, SD, IDE HD, PATA SSD, SATA SSD on TT Thunder

Postby dhedberg » Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:05 pm

Thanks for the post! Seems indeed like the performance is about the same for all the devices.
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Re: Performance roundup: CF, SD, IDE HD, PATA SSD, SATA SSD on TT Thunder

Postby Gaiyan » Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:22 pm

joska wrote:So basically it doesn't matter, performance is pretty much identical.


dhedberg wrote:Thanks for the post! Seems indeed like the performance is about the same for all the devices.


There is almost a 1MBps difference between the fastest (IDE HD) and slowest SATA SSD using adapter #2. But probably not discernible in daily use. The results are hard to read but it's the best I could do.
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Re: Performance roundup: CF, SD, IDE HD, PATA SSD, SATA SSD on TT Thunder

Postby Gaiyan » Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:54 pm

So I wanted to choose which HD solution I wanted to continue with. I wanted to close up my TT and not have it spread-eagle on my desk. I thought I'd run a Kronos test with the four top candidates. I included the IDE HD as it was the top performer in the previous tests.

Here are the results. Excuse the screenshots. I couldn't get the PC to read ImageCopy files for some reason.

bench1.gif

bench2.gif


So it seems to me that I am going to go with the modern Kingston SATA SSD.
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Re: Performance roundup: CF, SD, IDE HD, PATA SSD, SATA SSD on TT Thunder

Postby Gaiyan » Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:45 pm

Got JML to work on my fresh EasyMiNT installation on the SATA SSD. Interestingly the bench results are overall even better than the IDE HD but the details are quite different.

SNAP_01.png
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Re: Performance roundup: CF, SD, IDE HD, PATA SSD, SATA SSD on TT Thunder

Postby Gaiyan » Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:44 pm

Aaaaand I changed my mind. It's PATA SSD afterall. Three reasons:

1: Drive activity light would not work with SATA. Either from the translator or Thunder. Major bummer.
2: PATA SSD in MiNT is very good. Even exceeding the SATA SSD.
3: It's IDE. No translation so I'm more comfortable with it.

Here is the shot. Same IDE HD referrence so comparable to the previous. Blue is the current bench. Green is original PATA SSD in TOS, Red is original SATA SSD in TOS.
SNAP_13.png
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Re: Performance roundup: CF, SD, IDE HD, PATA SSD, SATA SSD on TT Thunder

Postby TXG/MNX » Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:26 am

Hi,

I did some testing with Storm&Thunder a few months ago. I managed to get 6000Kb/sec on SSD but all info about this hardware is inside the attachment.
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