2 floppy drive at once ?

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Orion_
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2 floppy drive at once ?

Postby Orion_ » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:20 am

I have a 1040 STe with a HxC Gotek replacing the standard floppy drive.
I was wondering if you could have 2 floppy drive on the same ST ?
for example, one Gotek and one standard floppy drive (so you could backup your real floppy to USB via the Gotek and the pasti program)
can this be done via one ribbon internal cable with triple connector ?
or do you need to wire the floppy drive to the external floppy din connector ?
do you now if such cable (ribbon cable to external floppy din connector) exist ? (I'm really bad at soldering din cable ...)
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Re: 2 floppy drive at once ?

Postby Maeke » Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:15 am

You totally can have two drives on the st, one internal, one external, but if you want both drives internal you'll have to do some modifications, for example you can use a switch to chose the working drive at boot via cutting the pin 10's wire on each of the ribbon connectors;

gotekfloppycable.png


Other (solderless) solution is you can try to use both drives in the same time with a pc's dual floppy ribbon cable (but the original ribbon cable is soldered on the motherboard, so you'll need an adaptor plug if you don't want soldering).
both drive must be set as drive 0, this said you'll need an y splitter for the floppy power cord. With this, one drive will be A: the other drive will be B: so i advise you to make the gotek as drive A: (otherwise you won't be able to boot from the gotek). This said the y splitter for the floppy drive isn't easy to find.

cable.gif


EDIT; forgot to say, the drive A: is the one connected at the extremity of the cable on a PC:

XCvp2.png
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Re: 2 floppy drive at once ?

Postby Maeke » Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:31 am

PS: the st can't accept more than 2 floppy drives, so if you chose the second solution, never use the external floppy drive connector.
PS2: if the pc floppy cord doesn't work, another solution is to use a ribbon cable with two drive connectors without the flip of the 4 wires and set the drive B as drive 1 (ie as they are set in a pc), see fig 2 on this link: http://fr.meric.free.fr/Articles/Classe ... %20p41.jpg.
PS3: don't forget that the 34 pins connector on the gotek is inverted compared to the connector of the original smd-380 drive (or other DD drive); but not compared to a hd drive (smd-300 (falcon) or smd-340 (mega-ste)).

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Re: 2 floppy drive at once ?

Postby ijor » Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:10 pm

Orion_ wrote:I was wondering if you could have 2 floppy drive on the same ST ?
...
can this be done via one ribbon internal cable with triple connector ?


It is totally possible to have two drives. But no, they can't be both internals. Not without some kind of hardware mod.

The only solderless solution is to somehow attach the second drive to the external connector.


Maeke wrote:...for example you can use a switch to chose the working drive at boot via cutting the pin 10's wire on each of the ribbon connectors;
Other (solderless) solution is you can try to use both drives in the same time with a pc's dual floppy ribbon cable
...
another solution is to use a ribbon cable with two drive connectors without the flip of the 4 wires and set the drive B as drive 1


None of those solutions would work (without some further hardware mod) because the ST provides a single select signal on each floppy connector.

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Re: 2 floppy drive at once ?

Postby Orion_ » Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:59 pm

would it be possible with a switch, to rewire the select signal to one or the other drive ?
then we could use a ram drive to swap the data, for example

else; I would be glad to get an external floppy cable but it seems like, those doesn't exist, beside selfmade cable ..
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Re: 2 floppy drive at once ?

Postby Maeke » Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:24 pm

ijor wrote:
Orion_ wrote:I was wondering if you could have 2 floppy drive on the same ST ?
...
can this be done via one ribbon internal cable with triple connector ?


It is totally possible to have two drives. But no, they can't be both internals. Not without some kind of hardware mod.

The only solderless solution is to somehow attach the second drive to the external connector.


Maeke wrote:...for example you can use a switch to chose the working drive at boot via cutting the pin 10's wire on each of the ribbon connectors;
Other (solderless) solution is you can try to use both drives in the same time with a pc's dual floppy ribbon cable
...
another solution is to use a ribbon cable with two drive connectors without the flip of the 4 wires and set the drive B as drive 1


None of those solutions would work (without some further hardware mod) because the ST provides a single select signal on each floppy connector.

Not sure about the second point, i have allready seen some photos of such mods, and look on the link i posted, IT HAS BEEN DONE.
images.jpg

btw looking the schematics, the internal drive connector clearly receive d0sel (pin 10) and d1sel (pin 12).
http://fr.meric.free.fr/Technique/Hardw ... te03_1.jpg
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Re: 2 floppy drive at once ?

Postby ijor » Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:49 pm

I missed he was talking about an STe. In the STF(M) pin 12 of the ribbon cable is not connected.

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Re: 2 floppy drive at once ?

Postby Maeke » Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:06 pm

ijor wrote:I missed he was talking about an STe. In the STF(M) pin 12 of the ribbon cable is not connected.


Indeed, at least for the internal connector: http://fr.meric.free.fr/Technique/Hardw ... iSTF-1.jpg

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Re: 2 floppy drive at once ?

Postby Maeke » Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:13 pm

so for the stf(m) only the first option (switch on pin 10) can work, but only one internal drive can work at the same time (and the switch mustn't be used when the computer is on), but for the ste it IS possible to have two internal drive at the same time, and for both options you don't need to absolutely keep the case of the gotek (a fellow user on facebook used the pin10 trick after i showed the picture of the switch and he confirmed it works)(i'm planning to use it too in my own ste and later in my stf).
BTW i took the idea from an amiga 1200 mod: https://www.ikod.se/amiga-1200-gotek/

Edit; photos and text from François Poli
14753221_10154578931984192_1476963805640367623_o.jpg
14700983_10154578932009192_5944971538713952804_o.jpg
14567460_10154578932004192_3100245696248489873_o.jpg


"=> GOTEK / FLOPPY drives INSIDE Atari STE.
I can switch from the Gotek to the Floppy driver, all USB and switches have been installed at the back. Pretty clean.
CONFIG: ATARI 520 STE + 4mgs, Dual TOS (1.62/2.0) from Exxos, IDE port (4G Compac Flash), Gotek LCD and Gotek Buzzer as Driver A and Floppy disc as Drive A.
Everything works like a charm !
But is was VERY hard to fit all inside this so small ST !!!"
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Re: 2 floppy drive at once ?

Postby Orion_ » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:35 pm

thank you for the detailed info, I will try this :)
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Re: 2 floppy drive at once ?

Postby Maeke » Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:01 pm

Orion_ wrote:thank you for the detailed info, I will try this :)


Last thing, the switch on pin 10 has a little flaw, whatever drive you select, both are powered, so it's possible to use a switch on the power connectors instead (only on the color wires, the black ones doesn't need to be switched) and btw the gotek uses only the +5v iirc (i'm not sure about the real floppy drive).

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Re: 2 floppy drive at once ?

Postby Lando_C » Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:57 pm

The 1040 stfm in a picture above is mine, sitting beside me. I have used a modern PC floppy cable with a twist, cut off one end and soldered it to the motherboard (I recommend soldering a female connector the the motherboard instead but I didn't have one at the time) I had to bring in Drive Select 1 from the back of the pin on the external connector down to the flatcable separately, and I had to splice the motor on signal to turn on both drives at once. I have since the pictures were published changed the A floppy (top one) to a gotek with HxC firmware, and it works charmingly. The reason I hacked my case this ugly (also not recommended) was threefold:

1) external floppycables were back then made of 99%pure unobtanium within driving distance for me, as were external drives, especially on a budget.
2) Function before form.
3) The case was already sawed out when the old "big eject button" drive had died sometime in the mid 90's.

I just a few days ago resurrected this machine to play Lemmings and supercars II with my 9 year old son, which was a huge success. I now run it off a 550W atx supply :-/ plan is to recap the weak but not dead original PSU any year now, and to build an A/B floppy switch at the same time. The 1040 was my second ST, it was originally a UK model with red leds and rom tos dated 1985, but I have switched in a rainbow swedish tos and a swedish keyboard after the UK one died.
UK 1040 STF, SE kbd, SE tos 1.04, gotekHxC+floppy B internally, ATX psu on the side
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SE Mega 2, no keyboard
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Megafile 20 with 2 MFM drive mechanisms (80+20 meg) in hacked case, ATX psu on the side
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Megafile 60
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Re: 2 floppy drive at once ?

Postby tzok » Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:55 pm

I hate the idea of cutting a good ST case. I'm not against modding, but it should be invisible and reversible.

The DS1 signal in STf is also available internally, on the W2 jumper block.

I'd accept replacing the fixed FDD cable with a goldpin header and a regular FDD ribbon cable (1:1), but every ST has an External FDD connector, so why not use it?

P.S.
Anyone has a good source of these 14 pin plugs?

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Re: 2 floppy drive at once ?

Postby Lando_C » Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:26 pm

Those 14 pin plugs are scarce and expensive. thats why.. but I agree, one should find a external floppy case and install a gotek in it, together with a a/b switch in the machine to select booting external or internal.
UK 1040 STF, SE kbd, SE tos 1.04, gotekHxC+floppy B internally, ATX psu on the side
DE Mega 1
SE Mega 2, no keyboard
SE Mega ST 4
Megafile 20 with 2 MFM drive mechanisms (80+20 meg) in hacked case, ATX psu on the side
Megafile 30
Megafile 60
SM124, SM125, finlux 19 inch TV RGBscart
PC Intel i5 8G ram many disks
5xRaspberry pi


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