My new, compact Atari -> VGA adapter.

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Re: My new, compact Atari -> VGA adapter.

Postby simonsunnyboy » Thu Oct 13, 2016 9:16 am

Is a complete Atari monitor plug needed or are the pins directly connected to the PCB? This could be simplified into a simple plug replcaement, pins into the Atari and outside a simple interface to something else, just the 13pins on a small PCB....
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Re: My new, compact Atari -> VGA adapter.

Postby ube » Thu Oct 13, 2016 9:58 am

Yes, one could just mount long headers on it, however some extra support would be needed under the VGA cable since there would be no support keeping the pins from bending. But a 3D printed case could provide this support.


This is my dev board:

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Re: My new, compact Atari -> VGA adapter.

Postby krisu13 » Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:34 pm

Sweet – exactly what I was looking for.
I'm interested to buy 3 of those if someone has it for sale. It makes no difference SMD and THT
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Re: My new, compact Atari -> VGA adapter.

Postby Fujiyama » Sun Jun 11, 2017 5:31 pm

I see you're up to version 5 now. Great work!

I'm looking for something similar, but for a recased STe with the features you have in your Multisync adapter but with a 13-pin Atari connector in addition to that, so that I can choose between attaching an Atari colour or monochrome monitor (and the computer will recognize them as before), but also a multisync VGA monitor. A 3-position switch would choose between:

1) "Atari monitor" auto mode
13 pin Atari monitor output (the STe recognizes the attached monitor as a mono or colour type and sets the resolution accordingly)

2) "VGA mono" mode
VGA-connector output (the 13-pin DIN is disabled so as to not cause any problem if an Atari monitor is connected simultaneously)
STe output is set to "high" as pin 4 (mono detect) is connected to GND which forces the computer into "high" mode

3) "VGA colour" mode
VGA-connector output (the 13-pin DIN is disabled so as to not cause any problem if an Atari monitor is connected simultaneously)
STe output is set to "medium/low" as pin 4 (mono detect) is NOT connected to GND which forces the computer into "medium/low" mode

Would it be much work to add these features?
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Re: My new, compact Atari -> VGA adapter.

Postby ube » Sun Jun 11, 2017 6:09 pm

Yes it would be. I'm quite content with the size of the board. And adding an extra port would widen the board with 10-15mm, 50%(!).. frankly it's not a function that I think the "masses" are looking for. Since one still can just switch the monitor cable with the adapter quite easily.
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Re: My new, compact Atari -> VGA adapter.

Postby Atarieterno » Sun Jun 11, 2017 6:30 pm

Great job !!
I'd buy two ones. XD.
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Re: My new, compact Atari -> VGA adapter.

Postby Fujiyama » Sun Jun 11, 2017 7:34 pm

ube wrote:Yes it would be. I'm quite content with the size of the board. And adding an extra port would widen the board with 10-15mm, 50%(!).. frankly it's not a function that I think the "masses" are looking for. Since one still can just switch the monitor cable with the adapter quite easily.


I see what you mean.
Would you mind if I try to modify the existing schematic to add the features I'm looking for?
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Re: My new, compact Atari -> VGA adapter.

Postby ube » Sun Jun 11, 2017 7:37 pm

Sure, go ahead. It's virtually free to use.
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Re: My new, compact Atari -> VGA adapter.

Postby Fujiyama » Sun Jun 11, 2017 9:48 pm

Thanks Ube :D
The multiplexer is a neat idea. I might have some ideas up my sleeve to make it work with both output connectors.

Would anyone else be interested in such a variation of the board as I've described a couple of posts back?
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Re: My new, compact Atari -> VGA adapter.

Postby ube » Sun Jun 11, 2017 10:27 pm

Oh. It does not use the CD4053 anymore, switched to an IC made for video: TS5V330. You'll need three (two if you find a 2p2t high bandwidth IC) of them to get all the switching capabilities you're looking for; you're switching Hsync and Vsync as well. Or, maybe you could have the signals go straight to the VGA and DIN13 connectors, it's not the cleanest solution but it might work.

I'd use an attiny85 to detect the correct monitor type if using an Atari monitor. And do the hi/low switching with a NPN transistor. You'll need this because you can't have pin4 permanently connected from the Atari monitor since that would block switching hi/low in VGA if a SM124 is connected to the DIN13. An added bonus is that you won't need any 2p2t switches, just two momentary switches that's being read by the attiny.

This unless you come up with a more cleaver solution. :)
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Re: My new, compact Atari -> VGA adapter.

Postby Fujiyama » Sun Jun 11, 2017 10:54 pm

The TS5V330 acts like a physical switch, routing the display signals, right?
Your idea is well thought through and executed, and I have to admit the attiny85 detection and transistor switching is a little over my head so I'll have to study the schematic and those datasheets a bit more to fully understand it. This may be a little more complex than first anticipated :?

Regarding the momentary switches -were you thinking one switch for "colour" and the other for "mono"? Upon power-on of the computer, would the last setting be remembered, or is it reset to one specific mode each time?
My initial idea was to use a 3-way 2 pole slide switch on the back of the (rack mounted) computer casing, near the video output connectors for the mode setting since this isn't something I'm going to be changing all the time (most of my software is for hires mono use).
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Re: My new, compact Atari -> VGA adapter.

Postby ube » Sun Jun 11, 2017 11:37 pm

Yes, it acts as an 4p2t switch.

The momentary switches are for VGA/DIN13 output and hi/low res for VGA. And if using an attiny one could save the last state. I've tested this design quite recently (attiny and momentary switch) and it's only like 10 rows of code needed. I think the hex file was 360 bytes or so, so it'll fit on an attiny with room to spare.

You can't just use a 3p2t switch since you'll need to do two different switches, RGB/mono signal and VGA/DIN13 output. It all comes down to how neat you want your design to be. You could connect all RGB/mono pins directly from the Atari's output to the DIN13 output and thus have mirrored image from the VGA output (if the correct type of monitor is connected).

But you'll have to take care of pin4 somehow, leaving IN on the V330 floating will produce lots of flicker on the VGA monitor, it has to be either high or low.
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Re: My new, compact Atari -> VGA adapter.

Postby ube » Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:19 pm

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU! Wrote a long post how it could be fixed and I got logged out.. Ok, here goes. Again.

Now that I'm awake I've been thinking of this.. And I think that this circuit ought to to what you need it to do when it comes to blocking the monodetect from the monitor. Atleast I think this should be possible to integrate directly with my design. In short: two PNP's, two 1k and three 10k resistors.

TPXX = TS5V330 pin
MPX = Monitor pin
APX = Atari pin

Whats missing in this circuit is R5, connected to base of Q2. Q2 is the wrong symbol, should be PNP not NPN. Oh, and I'm not sure if the Qx pull-ups should be before or after R1 and R5, but that's just a matter of checking in a simulation.

SW1 top to bottom:
Top: TP1 pulled low, enabling S1 ports = hires
Middle: TP1 pulled high, enabling S2 ports = lowres.
Bottom: TP15 is pulled low, disabling TS5V330 all together. Q2 base is pulled low, connecting MP4 with Q1 base.

R1, R5 = 1k (ought to do it).
R2, R3, R4 = 10k pullups.
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Re: My new, compact Atari -> VGA adapter.

Postby Greenious » Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:41 pm

Very nice adapter, good work!

Anyone going to make this up? Ube, you got the parts and pcbs, why not make up DIY kits of what you have?
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Re: My new, compact Atari -> VGA adapter.

Postby ube » Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:46 pm

The boards I have are all booked, I'm missing some components to finish them as of now. However, we'll see what the future holds. There are some things planned as of now.

(But I won't do the dual VGA/DIN13 output board.. :D )
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Re: My new, compact Atari -> VGA adapter.

Postby Greenious » Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:11 pm

ube wrote:The boards I have are all booked, I'm missing some components to finish them as of now. However, we'll see what the future holds. There are some things planned as of now.

(But I won't do the dual VGA/DIN13 output board.. :D )


Have you shared the board at PCBs.io? I think you mentioned you had it made there? If everyone got their boards from them you would get kickback?
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Re: My new, compact Atari -> VGA adapter.

Postby ube » Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:20 pm

It's shared at oshpark, I prefer them; they're quicker when it comes to production and shipping. Do a search for ube on the shared project page. Not sure if I'm getting a kick back or not. But I'm not in it for the money. ;)
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Re: My new, compact Atari -> VGA adapter.

Postby Greenious » Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:30 pm

ube wrote:It's shared at oshpark, I prefer them; they're quicker when it comes to production and shipping. Do a search for ube on the shared project page. Not sure if I'm getting a kick back or not. But I'm not in it for the money. ;)


Well, I don't think anyone is at this point, however, it is always fun to get appreciation for what you do, even if it is just a thank you or a cup of coffee (or a beer)... lol

Regardless, even doing something as simple as an adapter costs money, you made atlest 5 different versions with various components and even though the final version is cheap to make, with all the components you have ordered, PCBs, freight costs etc. I don't mind you getting some of that back.

Anyway, I think you've done a great job with this. I got all parts lying around except for the switch IC, so will order a few of that and a few PCBs. :)
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Re: My new, compact Atari -> VGA adapter.

Postby Fujiyama » Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:36 pm

:) but what you're posting here is of great help in any case! I just need some time to figure it all out :lol:
Sorry about the loss of your posting -it's happened to me quite a few times (seems to happen every time I write something overly time consuming and complex. Hmmm)...

I did actually start designing an even more complex display output board several years ago (see attachement below), but in retrospect I see it's overly complex with unnecessary features of today (SCART) and the S-video circuitry is probably unnecessary as well. Also I never quite completed it because of lacking knowledge.
So a simplified version with the features I've suggested in this thread should make it versatile enough and probably doable.
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Re: My new, compact Atari -> VGA adapter.

Postby Fujiyama » Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:44 pm

ube wrote:It's shared at oshpark, I prefer them; they're quicker when it comes to production and shipping. Do a search for ube on the shared project page. Not sure if I'm getting a kick back or not. But I'm not in it for the money. ;)


Awesome!
I found them here. It appears you have to order 3 boards (or multiples of 3), but I think that's how OSHpark works. I ordered some small boards from them a while back and they were really good! Didn't cost a small fortune to send either (as usually is when ordering something from the States) and the prices are good, as is delivery times as far as I remember. Thanks for sharing Ube!
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Re: My new, compact Atari -> VGA adapter.

Postby Greenious » Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:45 pm

Fujiyama wrote::) but what you're posting here is of great help in any case! I just need some time to figure it all out :lol:
Sorry about the loss of your posting -it's happened to me quite a few times (seems to happen every time I write something overly time consuming and complex. Hmmm)...


If you log in to the forum "permanently", it won't happen. It's when your login time-out while you are writing a message this happens.
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Re: My new, compact Atari -> VGA adapter.

Postby Fujiyama » Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:52 pm

Greenious wrote:
ube wrote:It's shared at oshpark, I prefer them; they're quicker when it comes to production and shipping. Do a search for ube on the shared project page. Not sure if I'm getting a kick back or not. But I'm not in it for the money. ;)


Well, I don't think anyone is at this point, however, it is always fun to get appreciation for what you do, even if it is just a thank you or a cup of coffee (or a beer)... lol

Regardless, even doing something as simple as an adapter costs money, you made atlest 5 different versions with various components and even though the final version is cheap to make, with all the components you have ordered, PCBs, freight costs etc. I don't mind you getting some of that back.

Anyway, I think you've done a great job with this. I got all parts lying around except for the switch IC, so will order a few of that and a few PCBs. :)


I wholeheartedly agree :thumbs: It's what makes it enjoyable to still hang around here, even with 30 year old technology!

Where do you order parts from Greenious? I'm having difficulty finding a place with no miniumum order, high shipping rates or risk of getting fake/bad quality components.
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Re: My new, compact Atari -> VGA adapter.

Postby Fujiyama » Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:53 pm

Greenious wrote:
Fujiyama wrote::) but what you're posting here is of great help in any case! I just need some time to figure it all out :lol:
Sorry about the loss of your posting -it's happened to me quite a few times (seems to happen every time I write something overly time consuming and complex. Hmmm)...


If you log in to the forum "permanently", it won't happen. It's when your login time-out while you are writing a message this happens.


Good suggestion!
I'll be sure to select that feature and have cookies enabled of course.
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Re: My new, compact Atari -> VGA adapter.

Postby Greenious » Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:19 pm

Fujiyama wrote: Where do you order parts from Greenious? I'm having difficulty finding a place with no miniumum order, high shipping rates or risk of getting fake/bad quality components.


Oh... here and there, I tend to recycle what I can, and over the years I got a sizeable stash of this and that... and I got some real gems in my stash too... something that might get some of you guys excited the day I get one of my many projects off the ground and offer for sale. Sadly, my most exciting project only got a very limited number of available parts, I've been on the lookout for YEARS for more, but it's impossible to source today and I might very well be the only source for that particular IC there is. Once it is done, it will only be 20 or so ever produced.

Anyway, nowadays I get a lot from china, aliexpress. Sure, you need to test the stuff, but so far only one bad delivery, and I got my money back, so... Most of the stuff is not bad though, there is no money in ripping people off for pocketchange through aliexpress, more expensive ICs like 060 and the like, sure, but for generic ICs that aren't rare or expensive you often get decent stuff for a fraction of the cost from an european distributor.
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Re: My new, compact Atari -> VGA adapter.

Postby ube » Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:04 pm

Btw, check out partlist.txt at github for links to where to buy components.
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