Atari TT (vertical lines)

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Oldskool
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Atari TT (vertical lines)

Postby Oldskool » Mon Mar 07, 2016 7:28 pm

Dear Forum,

Currently I'm busy cleaning the housing of TT. I also need to retrobright it (it's has an orange colour now (not even yellow anymore)).

I however have a question about the VGA output. I know the VGA output is a bit strange (scaling). I however also see vertical lines on the screen. I tried two monitors. Is this normal for the TT (the lines).

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Re: Atari TT (vertical lines)

Postby exxos » Mon Mar 07, 2016 7:35 pm

If you could post a clear screenshot of the problem it would help diagnose your problem quicker.
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Re: Atari TT (vertical lines)

Postby SoundDoctor » Mon Mar 07, 2016 7:46 pm

Until your picture is posted - I can say this, although the pseudo VGA image in TT Medium res is shifted to the left it should be free of artifacts.

Is your VGA cable know good - you tried two different monitors but was that with the same cable or a different cable each time?
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Re: Atari TT (vertical lines)

Postby Oldskool » Mon Mar 07, 2016 8:34 pm

Thanks for the help.
It's not the cable. I tried a second cable. This cable is ok on various computers.
The foto is not very clear. I hope you can see it a bit (in reality it is worse):
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Re: Atari TT (vertical lines)

Postby exxos » Mon Mar 07, 2016 8:44 pm

I don't have a TT personally, but that could monitor scaling issue ? I can't tell on your desktop, but that doesn't look scaled, but could be different resolutions ? You could try that, if you fill a text editor with "HHHHHHHHHH" and see if some H's look different sizes or not ? Then you can rule scaling issues out.

Its hard to tell if its on just one colour or not aswell. So if you use a paint package and fill the screen with various colours and see if it only happens on blue for example..
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Re: Atari TT (vertical lines)

Postby Oldskool » Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:02 pm

Hi,

The bars are all the same size (line spacing is the same). The colour does not matter.
My Falcon does not have this.
I also tried a second PSU in the TT but I don't see any diffrence.
My feeling is that this is an inherent TT thingy...

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Re: Atari TT (vertical lines)

Postby paul92706 » Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:34 pm

My TT also had the same problem with those lines, i usually got it worst with lighter colors, the darker colors like dark blue was ok and dark grey was good, it was mostly the lighter colors that showed up aweful. I never really figured this problem out.I also tried swapping out PSU's without any progress.
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Re: Atari TT (vertical lines)

Postby Foxie » Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:44 pm

This definitely sounds like a scaling issue. Try with a CRT monitor. AFAIK the TT's VGA output isn't actually VGA standard. LCD monitors might have trouble with the pixel clock.

A simple test - fill the screen using Degas in ST medium. Use the chequerboard fill pattern. From a distance the screen should look grey with a sharp chequerboard becoming visible as you move closer. If the monitor is scaling the image, you'll see extremely well-defined bands on the screen. You might be able to use the pixel clock, phase adjust, and auto config options in the monitor's menu to clear the picture up.

If it still does it on a CRT, then I would guess dried out capacitors on the main board.

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Re: Atari TT (vertical lines)

Postby Atari030 » Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:39 pm

Does the same on mine. I chalked it up to LCD compatibility.

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Re: Atari TT (vertical lines)

Postby SoundDoctor » Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:53 pm

Are either of the monitors you've tried multi-sync?

I'm thinking this is a scaling issue too. The monitor I use allows 1:1 / scaling off but it results in a tiny display in a sea of enormous black borders. It makes my TT look just like Hatari! I mainly use a Matrix CoCo card rather than the Atari video output though as that can output a few of my multi-sync monitors native resolutions, albeit at an eye watering 30Hz refresh.

What's interesting is my screen doesn't have the lines when scaled using the TT output so maybe multi-sysnc monitors where scaling can be turned off can handle the TT better?

I'm using a Compaq TFT8030 which is pretty good for old Atari stuff on the whole.
TT030 10mb/16mb/1Gb, Coco. Falcon 030 Stock 14mb (Lynxman), 1Gb CF. Falcon 030 Stock 14mb (Atari) 170mb IDE. Mega 1 big button (mash up badged Mega 4) 4mb (home cooked RAM upgrade) ICD ADSpeed ST OverScan. Mega 2 big button (4mb), Mega 1 small button (4mb home cooked 72pin SIMM slot), 520 STe (SIPPs), 520 STFM (4mb using a Falcon 4mb board + Blitter).

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Re: Atari TT (vertical lines)

Postby exxos » Tue Mar 08, 2016 6:18 pm

I'm not sure it is a scaling issue since his desktop image shows the menu separate as rows of 3 dots, and there doesn't seem to be any issues there. But as mentioned before, it could depend on resolution, hes not done what I suggested previously so its hard to rule out scaling or not.

I've done a lot of fiddling with the STE/STFM video outputs as I get odd noise, but in parts its noise on the 5V rail on the shifter and RGB drivers. I ripped out the 5V rail and added in a 5V regulator and powered from the 12V rail which improved things a lot. Video cable needs to be individually screened, quality cables are hard to find these days. He may also need some resistors in the RGB line of 47R or there abouts.
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Re: Atari TT (vertical lines)

Postby Eero Tamminen » Tue Mar 08, 2016 7:29 pm

SoundDoctor wrote:It makes my TT look just like Hatari!


Hatari development snapshots support SDL2, and that can do arbitrary scaling. Additional benefit is that SDL2 uses GPU for the scaling, so Hatari has more CPU left (e.g. for Falcon DSP emulation or video recording).

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Re: Atari TT (vertical lines)

Postby Oldskool » Tue Mar 08, 2016 8:50 pm

The current monitor connected is an nec 2190uxp.
Which is an awesome monitor (picture quality).
The non scaling option does not remove the lines.
Playing around with the settings helps a bit. I now have an acceptable picture.
The picture or artifacts do not change in time. I therefore don't expect a capacitor issue.

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Re: Atari TT (vertical lines)

Postby Atari030 » Tue Mar 08, 2016 10:31 pm

Mine is an Asus and does the same thing as yours, Sounddoctor. Because it is 16x9 the usual squished TT VGA problem results in pretty much the right aspect ratio in a sea of black. I plan to sort the sea of white in colour modes issue out at some point but can live with the sea. The ASUS will display 4x3 IF it detects a standard VGA spec signal. Funny thing is stock Falcon won't do it, but running a software screen expander like Videlity will. I need to get my SBII working but I suspect it will allow for proper 4x3.

The only monitor I can try my TT with is ECL, so pretty pointless really.


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