New wiki page - ST low/med/high capable flatscreen monitors

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Re: New wiki page - ST low/med/high capable flatscreen monitors

Postby catmando » Wed Mar 11, 2015 3:48 am

calimero wrote:
catmando wrote:I've combined the data from both tables into one sortable table, I've also changed the the page title to reflect the current information and future information more accurately.

The new link is http://www.atari-wiki.com/index.php/Flat_Panel_Displays

hey!

where did lost my info about Dell 2412M ?!?

I now check history page on wiki and I see that there is no entry about my Dell 2412M?!?

I hate this wiki shit-stuff! (somehow information that I wrote did lost)

info about Dell 2412M is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vloo7nwL56U

if someone have nerve to edit wiki-shit stuff, please do. I will not edit it anymore. Wikipedia CRM is something worst I ever seen!


Was it in the table before? or on a separate page?
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Re: New wiki page - ST low/med/high capable flatscreen monitors

Postby galax » Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:00 am

catmando wrote:
calimero wrote:hey!

where did lost my info about Dell 2412M ?!?

I now check history page on wiki and I see that there is no entry about my Dell 2412M?!?


Was it in the table before? or on a separate page?


Here's the revision where the info was added: http://www.atari-wiki.com/index.php?tit ... ldid=13982

It hasn't been removed since then. The page changed names though, and the history is on the new page. Are you looking at the history for the old page?

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Re: New wiki page - ST low/med/high capable flatscreen monitors

Postby AdamK » Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:25 am

galax wrote:
catmando wrote:
calimero wrote:hey!

where did lost my info about Dell 2412M ?!?

I now check history page on wiki and I see that there is no entry about my Dell 2412M?!?


Was it in the table before? or on a separate page?


Here's the revision where the info was added: http://www.atari-wiki.com/index.php?tit ... ldid=13982

It hasn't been removed since then. The page changed names though, and the history is on the new page. Are you looking at the history for the old page?

U2410F is not the same as U2412M.
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Re: New wiki page - ST low/med/high capable flatscreen monitors

Postby calimero » Thu Mar 12, 2015 7:31 am

galax wrote:Here's the revision where the info was added: http://www.atari-wiki.com/index.php?tit ... ldid=13982

It hasn't been removed since then. The page changed names though, and the history is on the new page. Are you looking at the history for the old page?

I even could not find it in history...

I simple hate crude wikipedia implementation of 50 years old Ted Nelson's idea: http://xanadu.net/NOWMORETHANEVER/XuSum99.html
or better and shorter reading at "codinghorror" blog: http://blog.codinghorror.com/the-xanadu-dream/

btw I have bunch of old monitors in office - I think I will bring Falcon one day and test them all :)

U2410F is not the same as U2412M.

it is not. it's newer model (I remove U2010F from U2412M line).
and not so good at handling around-15KHz resolutions...
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Re: New wiki page - ST low/med/high capable flatscreen monitors

Postby qq1975b » Thu Mar 12, 2015 8:08 am

calimero wrote:
btw I have bunch of old monitors in office - I think I will bring Falcon one day and test them all :)



The Falcon will work with them. Maybe did you mean an ST with multisync cable?
Trying to learn...

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Re: New wiki page - ST low/med/high capable flatscreen monitors

Postby calimero » Thu Mar 12, 2015 8:22 am

qq1975b wrote:
calimero wrote:
btw I have bunch of old monitors in office - I think I will bring Falcon one day and test them all :)



The Falcon will work with them. Maybe did you mean an ST with multisync cable?

no ST.

I mean Falcon in RGB mode.

Falcons can use different horizontal freq., around 15KHz, in RGB mode - especial games and demos use custom modes so it is better for testing than ST - ST has only one resolution/freq. on color monitor. Falcon can use dozens. You can best experience this if you watch YT link of my Dell 2412M: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vloo7nwL56U some scenes of Lost Blub demo can not be displayed on Dell 2412M.
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Re: New wiki page - ST low/med/high capable flatscreen monitors

Postby qq1975b » Thu Mar 12, 2015 8:28 am

Ah! ok. RGB modes :) Good idea. When I get the cable I will test the monitors using the Falcon too :thumbs:

(Sorry...I was thinking about VGA :oops: )
Trying to learn...

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Re: New wiki page - ST low/med/high capable flatscreen monitors

Postby catmando » Thu Mar 12, 2015 8:45 am

qq1975b wrote:Ah! ok. RGB modes :) Good idea. When I get the cable I will test the monitors using the Falcon too :thumbs:

(Sorry...I was thinking about VGA :oops: )


This will have to be on a separate table.
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Re: New wiki page - ST low/med/high capable flatscreen monitors

Postby 1024MAK » Thu Mar 12, 2015 12:43 pm

When I was testing various STFM and STe machines in ST high resolution mode, with various VGA monitors (CRT and LCD) a few years ago, I found that some monitors would work fine with some machines, but not others. Including computers with the same model number! 8O So keep this in mind.

Some more modern LCD monitors and some LCD TVs that have a VGA input, do not like the ST high resolution mode :( .

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Re: New wiki page - ST low/med/high capable flatscreen monitors

Postby troed » Thu Mar 12, 2015 1:25 pm

I think it's important to remember that the original use case for this was to present Atari ST (and other retro computer/consoles) owners with options to replace bulky CRT TVs with flatscreen possibilities for ST low/medium. Multisync is a wonderful addition (I myself use it - I code in high res and display in low) which there's a clear point in listing as well.

The prerequisite here is "RGB on the VGA input", so, tests should be made with a "color VGA cable". Not many have made one, since it's uncommon to actually find a monitor that handles it.

http://info-coach.fr/atari/hardware/int ... olor_cable

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Re: New wiki page - ST low/med/high capable flatscreen monitors

Postby calimero » Thu Mar 12, 2015 1:32 pm

troed wrote:The prerequisite here is "RGB on the VGA input", so, tests should be made with a "color VGA cable". Not many have made one, since it's uncommon to actually find a monitor that handles it.

http://info-coach.fr/atari/hardware/int ... olor_cable

I made VGA cable for Falcon and just properly connect M0 and M1 pins to force RGB signal.

Is Falcon ST-Low resolution frequencies identical to ST?
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Re: New wiki page - ST low/med/high capable flatscreen monitors

Postby 1024MAK » Thu Mar 12, 2015 5:04 pm

calimero wrote:Is Falcon ST-Low resolution frequencies identical to ST?
I think so, as long as you are in fact using the ST low res mode and the video connector is wired appropriately (ST color mode). After all, both ST low res and medium res are designed to work on a TV, hence they use TV horizontal and vertical frequencies (in most of Europe 15625Hz and 50Hz for 625 line / "PAL").
The Falcon's new enhanced video port has 2 pins that inform the
machine of the monitor connected. These are Monitor Select 1 and 0.
These are the possibilities:

Code: Select all

       M1  M0   Monitor type
       ----------------------
       0   0    ST Monochrome
       0   1    ST Color
       1   0    VGA
       1   1    TV

Now, the Atari adapter that you connect to the Falcon pulls down
these pins. If there is no adapter, the pins remain high signaling TV
mode.
The mode we want is ST color, so ground M1 and leave M0 open.

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Re: New wiki page - ST low/med/high capable flatscreen monitors

Postby calimero » Thu Mar 12, 2015 5:39 pm

1024MAK wrote:
The Falcon's new enhanced video port has 2 pins that inform the
machine of the monitor connected. These are Monitor Select 1 and 0.
These are the possibilities:

Code: Select all

       M1  M0   Monitor type
       ----------------------
       0   0    ST Monochrome
       0   1    ST Color
       1   0    VGA
       1   1    TV

Now, the Atari adapter that you connect to the Falcon pulls down
these pins. If there is no adapter, the pins remain high signaling TV
mode.
The mode we want is ST color, so ground M1 and leave M0 open.

hm. I set it to TV mode (M1 and M0 open). Why is there two separate mode: ST Color mode and TV mode?

I just check Falcon in 320x200 mode connected to Commodore 1084s (TV mode): Videlity report H:15625Hz V:59.16Hz
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Re: New wiki page - ST low/med/high capable flatscreen monitors

Postby Sowden » Mon Mar 23, 2015 5:39 pm

Hey guys. This wiki is great, I'm going to start looking into these monitors. But I think I'm missing where to obtain the cable for it. Is there something I can buy or do I have to make something myself?

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Re: New wiki page - ST low/med/high capable flatscreen monitors

Postby troed » Mon Mar 23, 2015 7:08 pm

Sowden wrote:Hey guys. This wiki is great, I'm going to start looking into these monitors. But I think I'm missing where to obtain the cable for it. Is there something I can buy or do I have to make something myself?


At the very bottom there are two links, one to DIY instructions and one to Best which sells readymade cables.

I've made my own (Dell 2001FP)

/Troed

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Re: New wiki page - ST low/med/high capable flatscreen monitors

Postby Sowden » Tue Mar 24, 2015 3:45 am

Great, thanks for the info. Does that cable on Best Electronics cover all HI/Mid/Lo res with color?

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Re: New wiki page - ST low/med/high capable flatscreen monitors

Postby catmando » Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:52 am

Sowden wrote:Great, thanks for the info. Does that cable on Best Electronics cover all HI/Mid/Lo res with color?


It covers all 3 modes, only Low and Medium are in colour, High is monochrome (There has never been colour in High resolution on any cable new or old)
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Re: New wiki page - ST low/med/high capable flatscreen monitors

Postby Atari030 » Mon Sep 28, 2015 7:36 am

You can add the ASUS VE225 to the list. It works in all 3 modes on an ST. Standard Falcon resolutions too. TT030 works but not centered.

I got lucky with this one.

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Re: New wiki page - ST low/med/high capable flatscreen monitors

Postby catmando » Mon Sep 28, 2015 5:24 pm

Atari030 wrote:You can add the ASUS VE225 to the list. It works in all 3 modes on an ST. Standard Falcon resolutions too. TT030 works but not centered.

I got lucky with this one.


Added. Thanks
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Re: New wiki page - ST low/med/high capable flatscreen monitors

Postby siriushardware » Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:41 pm

catmando wrote:Do all monitors/TV's that have VGA input support Hi-Res monochrome?


Generally yes, but there is an issue which can cause exceptions to this rule.

Some VGA monitors have very low impedance (typically 75R) sync inputs and the sync outputs on the ST are just not beefy enough to drive such a low impedance.

My Medion 41077EA 4:3 aspect LCD monitor is one example with exactly this problem.

If the value of the internal terminating resistors (inside the monitor) was raised to, say, 470R or higher it would probably make it work with the ST and still work with PCs. I have not tried it yet.

I saw this same problem years ago when trying to get an ST to work with a Tatung Einstein RGB monitor which had seperate vsync and hsync inputs. The monitor could not see the sync signals from the ST at all until the internal terminating resistors on the monitor's sync inputs were raised in value. After that, it worked with the ST but still worked with the Einstein as well.

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Re: New wiki page - ST low/med/high capable flatscreen monitors

Postby Arne » Sat Oct 17, 2015 9:39 am

You can add the NEC 1990FXp, too.
See: http://forum.atari-home.de/index.php?topic=12352.0
Bought it for TT-High with ECL converter but lately tried on a 1040STFM as well with two different cables for ST-LOW/MED and ST-HIGH.
The pink/green rays on the picture showing ST-HIGH originate from the camera's sensor. They are not visible on the screen.

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Re: New wiki page - ST low/med/high capable flatscreen monitors

Postby catmando » Sun Oct 18, 2015 12:55 pm

Arne wrote:You can add the NEC 1990FXp, too.
See: http://forum.atari-home.de/index.php?topic=12352.0
Bought it for TT-High with ECL converter but lately tried on a 1040STFM as well with two different cables for ST-LOW/MED and ST-HIGH.
The pink/green rays on the picture showing ST-HIGH originate from the camera's sensor. They are not visible on the screen.


Added, thanks
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Re: New wiki page - ST low/med/high capable flatscreen monitors

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Re: New wiki page - ST low/med/high capable flatscreen monitors

Postby calimero » Tue Dec 08, 2015 1:40 pm

Here is another 15KHz monitor. I did not test it but here is review of Benq BL702a

http://insertdisktwo.com/2015/11/21/ben ... amiga-use/
http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=80217

note that Benq BL912 should perform same! Should we add this info in wiki?
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Re: New wiki page - ST low/med/high capable flatscreen monitors

Postby calimero » Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:08 am

I just try NEC 1960NXi and it does not work with ST low 15KHz mode - there is "no sync" message on monitor :(
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