Call for question on a new Atari

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Call for question on a new Atari

Postby oehansen » Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:41 am

I know the Firebee is under construction, but like the Hades and others, I think they are a bit too expensive and taking too long. A computer around 500€ is about the same as a normal computer, and you can even get a computer with two to 4 cores today, at that price.

However, I've always had the dream of making my own computer ... and I intend to do that, my goal is the following.

1. A straight forward design
2. A computer that allows for easy user modifications. Addons, interfacing, etc. Provide something, similar to an arduino, you can add to it what you want. The computer interface and software is easy.
3. The glue on the atari, was simply to address ram ... it isn't needed, so dump it.
4. The shifter on the atari, was simply to address video ... it sin't needed, so dump it.
5. These atari perhipherals can easily be "emulated" in software, with a proper MMU. Provide such a "emulation" interface.
6. Code compatible with Atari or CPU32.
7. Capability of running linux, TOS or proprietary core program.
8 1-4 GB of memory

These are my goals, and I am asking others about their "interrest" in a new Atari clone or computer. My goal is not necessarily to mirror an Atari computer, but to keep the "environment" that the Atari age was in. The "environment" where not only doing programming was easy, but also doing interfacing with hardware. In my youth, this was the whole fun, and today I need to get myself an arduino or similar things, to have the same experience. I wish to bridge these two.

Basically, what this means is, that such a board would need a FPGA, that was user accessible, a Coldfire CPU, ram modules, and interfaces as USB, I2C, PCI, that are already built into the Coldfire.

Anyone?

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Re: Call for question on a new Atari

Postby Zogging Hell » Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:01 am

Sounds great, I will happily support any new developments for my favourite platform. Personally I mainly like the Atari OS and its software, and I'm not so worried about the physical connection with 68k hardware (though obviously compatibility), although I know a lot of people might think that was heresy! :wink:

I'd be quite pleased with any power improvements for the Atari platform, even it was only a accelerator card for normal STs, Falcons etc. Ideally IMO it would be something like a ARM CPU tied with something FPGA, with the essential ST chips supported in it (kind of like a Firebee, but with a bit more muscle), which would provide both compatibility and a raw speed boost where needed. I think the standard Ataris are pretty capable of doing most things well (word processing, DTP, picture editing etc), it's just a few things that need more CPU power, like video and audio playback, and fully featured web browsing (though Netsurf is fast solving this), where it simply doesn't have the power to cope (although the Firebee has made great strides in this area). Basically I hate having to use a PC, and I for a lot of things there is no need to to, but having to flip to a PC when I need to get on a certain website, or go on Youtube etc is a pain. The Arm chip could simply act as a grunt chip to provide extra power where needed.

Some various discussions were on this thread viewtopic.php?f=15&t=18847&start=825 that might be interesting to you..

If you can come up with anything that lets me not have to use my PC so much, I'd happily buy it! :)
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Re: Call for question on a new Atari

Postby alexh » Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:28 am

The high prices unfortunately come with low production runs. You'd be much better off supporting the Raspberry Pi or finding a commercial product which can be "jailbroken" and used for a different purpose.

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Re: Call for question on a new Atari

Postby oehansen » Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:51 pm

alexh wrote:The high prices unfortunately come with low production runs. You'd be much better off supporting the Raspberry Pi or finding a commercial product which can be "jailbroken" and used for a different purpose.


No, and No.

Raspberry Pi is an ARM product. Has no correlation, whatsoever with an Atari or it's underlying architecture.

To "jailbreak" a commercial product, for what?

Let me ask you something, why did you love your Atari? Maybe you are one of those who found the "crummy" green desktop appealing :-) in which case, it wouldn't matter to you which platform you were on, as long as you could get your little green desktop on there.

But let me "try" and describe the type of user that was actually "most" active in the community of "Atari", "Commodre" and/or "Amiga".

*) The low level architecture of the CPU, was appealing.
*) The interface was appealing, at the time, the Atari and Mac were the only viable "graphical" interface around. Windows 1 & 2, were "crap".
*) The cpu was quick, and easy to use for development of both hardware and software.

The first and last part, are the most important ones. And it's the "abandonment" of these principles, that made Atari go under, as well as the "price" tag of the equipment. Intel CPU's were slow, badly constructed, but they were cheap and therefore people adopted them more handily.

Today, you have a large portion of customers that play around with "Arduino", "FPGA", etc. And the amount of embedded CPU's with everything included is growing. This "user base", is actually the same "user base", that made the Commodore pet famouse, as well as the Apple, and the Atari. It's the user base, that likes to play with the computer, on a "greater" basis, than merely the "user inteface", or some "fake wanna-help-the-poor-with-a-cheap-computer" types. They are the origin of "Open Source", as in those days everything we made for the Atari, Commodore or any other computer, was open. It was written in newspaper articles, and "Garcia's cirquit cellar" type books. We experimented with Software, and Hardware ... and the Atari, or Commodore were just platforms that made that simple for us to do, and the underlying platform was logical for that purpose. Still is, in a way.

The modern "intel" type platform, is even more unappealing for this purpose, than it was before. It has become, like the Workstations and Mainframes back on those days.

Oh, and I forgot one important user base ... the musicians, for whom the Atari was quite useful with it's MIDI interface.

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Re: Call for question on a new Atari

Postby Hippy Dave » Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:16 pm

oehansen wrote:However, I've always had the dream of making my own computer ... and I intend to do that, my goal is the following.

1. A straight forward design
2. A computer that allows for easy user modifications. Addons, interfacing, etc. Provide something, similar to an arduino, you can add to it what you want. The computer interface and software is easy.
3. The glue on the atari, was simply to address ram ... it isn't needed, so dump it.
4. The shifter on the atari, was simply to address video ... it sin't needed, so dump it.
5. These atari perhipherals can easily be "emulated" in software, with a proper MMU. Provide such a "emulation" interface.
6. Code compatible with Atari or CPU32.
7. Capability of running linux, TOS or proprietary core program.
8 1-4 GB of memory

Anyone?

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This makes it possible to start with No hardware, then add as much hardware as desired.
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Re: Call for question on a new Atari

Postby Silly_Pony » Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:17 pm

oehansen wrote:
alexh wrote:The high prices unfortunately come with low production runs. You'd be much better off supporting the Raspberry Pi or finding a commercial product which can be "jailbroken" and used for a different purpose.


No, and No.

Raspberry Pi is an ARM product. Has no correlation, whatsoever with an Atari or it's underlying architecture.


Neither would the machine you want to make, unless you've got a magic wand that can make anything remotely low level (i.e, not using gem, or bypassing the OS in certain situations) work without the atari ST glue/shifter.

Cubase, for example.

The Raspberry Pi would actually be an excellent starting point. Slap a customized ST emulator on top of a stripped out linux kernel, allowing the ST emulated OS to reach out and touch the hardware, assuming it's ARM aware. Lock it down so that the ST hardware environment is all you can ever get, treating the native ARM emulator as little more than firmware. Build a simple ATX format motherboard for the Pi to plug into, providing the traditional Atari ports.

You could sell assembled machines for £200 probably and it'd be a) the fastest Atari ST ever, b) made of cheap mass market parts that can easily be replaced, and c) not actually that hard for an engineer to do.
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Re: Call for question on a new Atari

Postby lp » Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:56 pm

There is also http://www.experiment-s.de/en

I'm not really interested in yet another clone myself. Seems to me it would be better to help complete one of the ongoing projects already in existence.

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Re: Call for question on a new Atari

Postby wongck » Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:09 pm

Probably don't need another clone.
I always wondered why no one carry forward that GEM for PC and then slap on it a real-in emulator for the running 68K programs.
It's something like the 68K emulator (is that what it is called?) for Firebee, but probably emulate more of the missing hardware.
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Re: Call for question on a new Atari

Postby oehansen » Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:02 am

Silly_Pony wrote:
Neither would the machine you want to make, unless you've got a magic wand that can make anything remotely low level (i.e, not using gem, or bypassing the OS in certain situations) work without the atari ST glue/shifter.



That is not "entirely" accurate ... there is hardware on the original Atari ST, that is and was "obsolete" and should *never* have been emulated. The emulation is more a "start point" for VHDL work, and more of a educational level, rather than it ever was needed.

How many "programs" running on the Atari, do you know off that make use of the glue/shifter directly?

*few*, but they do exist, I grant you that ... although the use of "VBLI" (Vertical blank interrupt) to move memory around, between screen phases, was the most used one for games, etc.

Silly_Pony wrote:You could sell assembled machines for £200 probably and it'd be a) the fastest Atari ST ever, b) made of cheap mass market parts that can easily be replaced, and c) not actually that hard for an engineer to do.


Basically, I have the same idea ... except I don't want the ARM architecture, I still want the CPU32 architecture. In reality, the 68K was a "crippled" CPU32.

With the right architecture, "emulation" is minimal. And "cloning" the Atari is not what I want. The current "clones" aren't as much of clones, as they are supposed to be. The MiNT distribution, can't be run on an original Atari ST. I've tried several original ones ... won't run, the MiNT itself will, but XaAES will not.

The CPU32, was (and *is*) used on powerful workstations around the world. Today, it is going into the "embedded" market, along with the MIPS (which is the heart of the PIC32) and the ARM as well. On the Atari, and all of it's clones, as well as on any emulation. The CPU is crippled, and is dragging along with it totally unnecessary hardware, like the GLUE/SHIFTER. It's like having race horse, dragging a cart, and then wondering why it can't run fast.

A single Coldfire CPU, is around 40 bucks. Brought on my doorstep. This CPU has the following, built-in.

* USB
* DMA
* DDR controller
* PCI
* I2C
* UART

With a simple motherboard, you can provide a PCI bus, DDR ram interface for upto 1GB of memory, without any "hokus pokus" in the design department, or any additions whatsoever. Through the PCI you can get harddisk controller, proper graphics and sound capabilities in a flash. And memory, that is as cheap as it can get. The only handkerchief here, is the motherboard itself.

You want to play with old atari software? Go ahead, the cpu architecture is the same, the only thing you need to do is to provide some "compatibility", through the MMU, to mirror the hardware activity to the new platform. This sort of emulation is plain and easy, instead of "cloning" the hardware in a semi-vhdl manner. You just watch out, for what is being written in the hardware registers, and mirror this activity on the new hardware. Pretty simple.

But one of the best things, about the Atari. The one thing, that can still be used today to make a suitable computer. Is the $A000 instructions. These instructions were designed, so that you would do screen activity through a "co-processor", rather than to go around and manipulate memory directly. How much CPU power, do you think a computer uses, manipulating screen memory? Modern graphic cards ease this function tremendously, but the Atari already had this idea from the start. Don't use the bloody CPU to manipulate the screen ... use a co-processor for it. But unfortunately, it never got beyond the $A000 instruction set.

How does it sound, to have a cheap ARM, or PIC co-processor to do the main AES work? Throw them them the bone, and have them dedicate themselves to the screen.

The same applies for the Atari's iKBD interface. The PC had to, and still has to, use a dedicated lines to emulate a completely different serial mechanism, to access the keyboard. But Atari, but this into a small CPU on the keyboard, that merely threw you the bits and pieces, when they were ready. So, have that ARM or PIC, do that PS/2 interfacing, and give you the scan-codes ready through an automated serial interface.

Wnat to access some different hardware? How about a $20 fpga onboard, for you to play with? You could basically interface with anything in the world, with that.

So, where are we? $40 for a CPU, $20 for a FPGA, $10 for an ARM/PIC. Everyone has memory in their drawers somewhere, a hard disc, or even a spare old PCI IDE controller, and any graphics card will do. That would leave us about $100 to create the mainboard, standard fit ATX, as you said. That is about a $120 board, with the power you'd want. And with a USB 2.0 controller, you could get Serial, Parallel or any interface you'd want for that matter. KICK the bloody AES onto a co-processor, as originally thought ...

I'd say you'd got a pretty decent machine, and throw in a basic Linux distribution of your choice, if Atari TOS doesn't suit you, and you'd end up with a good computer.

Someone might ask me, why I don't support the FireBee ... and my answer is "on-board graphics". That is about as bad, as the GLUE/SHIFTER was for the Atari.

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Re: Call for question on a new Atari

Postby Silly_Pony » Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:42 am

Okay, whatever. You're clearly set on being a hardware losethos, I won't stop you.
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Re: Call for question on a new Atari

Postby Dal » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:16 am

oehansen wrote:The MiNT distribution, can't be run on an original Atari ST. I've tried several original ones ... won't run, the MiNT itself will, but XaAES will not.


Wrong.

The only reason XAAES doesn't run well on a standard ST is because it needs more RAM. Nothing to do with architecture per sé. In fact if you look at XAAES, there is a standard 68000 kernel module included. You could probably get it to run with a very simple XAAES.cnf, but it would not be pretty.

There was a fast ram mod floating around somewhere, if you implemented this on a bog standard ST, then it would all run.
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Re: Call for question on a new Atari

Postby Dio » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:22 am

oehansen wrote:How many "programs" running on the Atari, do you know off that make use of the glue/shifter directly?

*few*, but they do exist, I grant you that ... although the use of "VBLI" (Vertical blank interrupt) to move memory around, between screen phases, was the most used one for games, etc.

What do you mean, "to move memory around, between screen phases"? The VBI was used to provide a timing reference; the uses to which that timing reference was put are arbitrary and irrelevant. The ST is nothing like a console architecture.

I would estimate that something between 20% and 30% of games requires accurate Timer B emulation and concommitantly reasonably accurate timing. Probably only about 1% of commercial games requires the more esoteric glue / shifter tricks. In addition, as a Falcon owner I can testify that very many games do not cope well with certain changes in the later 680x0 (and the CPU32) such as the 8-byte stack frame and the privileged move from SR. Ignoring these limitations implies this can't achieve the goal of 'code compatible with Atari'.

I would also dispute that programming the Atari was easy; there is never much easy about asm, and programming C or other HLLs is far easier with modern tools than with late 80s tools. If you want a genuinely easy machine to program and hack, with still good capabilities, in my opinion you have to step back another generation to the ZX Spectrum.

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Re: Call for question on a new Atari

Postby joska » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:33 am

oehansen wrote:How many "programs" running on the Atari, do you know off that make use of the glue/shifter directly?


Every game, demo and application that bypass the AES/VDI use the shifter.

oehansen wrote:A single Coldfire CPU, is around 40 bucks. Brought on my doorstep. This CPU has the following, built-in.

* USB


Which ColdFire are you talking about here?

oehansen wrote:You want to play with old atari software? Go ahead, the cpu architecture is the same, the only thing you need to do is to provide some "compatibility", through the MMU, to mirror the hardware activity to the new platform. This sort of emulation is plain and easy, instead of "cloning" the hardware in a semi-vhdl manner. You just watch out, for what is being written in the hardware registers, and mirror this activity on the new hardware. Pretty simple.


If this is so easy you should join the Firebee team ;) You obviously knows a lot of things that these people doesn't.

oehansen wrote:But one of the best things, about the Atari. The one thing, that can still be used today to make a suitable computer. Is the $A000 instructions.


On the ColdFire??

oehansen wrote:How does it sound, to have a cheap ARM, or PIC co-processor to do the main AES work? Throw them them the bone, and have them dedicate themselves to the screen.


Or implement this in the FPGA.

oehansen wrote:The same applies for the Atari's iKBD interface. The PC had to, and still has to, use a dedicated lines to emulate a completely different serial mechanism, to access the keyboard. But Atari, but this into a small CPU on the keyboard, that merely threw you the bits and pieces, when they were ready. So, have that ARM or PIC, do that PS/2 interfacing, and give you the scan-codes ready through an automated serial interface.


I don't understand. The Atari keyboards are very similar to the old XT keyboards. Even the scancodes (down to details like setting the upper bit to indicate a break-code) are almost identical. They work in the same way, except that the serial protocol is different. But in both cases there is a dedicated controller on the motherboard that handles the communication with the keyboard.

oehansen wrote:Wnat to access some different hardware? How about a $20 fpga onboard, for you to play with? You could basically interface with anything in the world, with that.


What kind of FPGA is this?

oehansen wrote:Someone might ask me, why I don't support the FireBee ... and my answer is "on-board graphics". That is about as bad, as the GLUE/SHIFTER was for the Atari.


1. Why?
2. You can also use PCI graphics cards.
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Re: Call for question on a new Atari

Postby joska » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:37 am

Silly_Pony wrote:The Raspberry Pi would actually be an excellent starting point. Slap a customized ST emulator on top of a stripped out linux kernel, allowing the ST emulated OS to reach out and touch the hardware, assuming it's ARM aware.


Then you don't need Linux at all, "just" port TOS to the Raspberry Pi. It's not a bad idea, with EmuTOS out there it's probably a lot less work (and cheaper!) than designing and building a new computer.
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Re: Call for question on a new Atari

Postby alexh » Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:46 am

oehansen wrote:A single Coldfire CPU, is around 40 bucks. With a simple motherboard that is as cheap as it can get. The only handkerchief here, is the motherboard itself. $100 to create the mainboard, standard fit ATX, as you said.

And surely that is the main cost on other projects? The cost of the parts will run close to $100 not taking into account the NRE of making the boards or assembly! I think you'll struggle to have change from $2000 for the first one.

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Re: Call for question on a new Atari

Postby Silly_Pony » Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:28 pm

joska wrote:
Silly_Pony wrote:The Raspberry Pi would actually be an excellent starting point. Slap a customized ST emulator on top of a stripped out linux kernel, allowing the ST emulated OS to reach out and touch the hardware, assuming it's ARM aware.


Then you don't need Linux at all, "just" port TOS to the Raspberry Pi. It's not a bad idea, with EmuTOS out there it's probably a lot less work (and cheaper!) than designing and building a new computer.


Ah, but the idea is to provide an environment that looks identical to ST hardware, unless you know the magic word. You might have the ARM side addressed as an expansion card, for example.
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Re: Call for question on a new Atari

Postby Zogging Hell » Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:47 pm

There was a guy talking about something similar on the Atari clone mailing list recently, are you one and the same oehansen? (Sven Karlsson, was the fella on the ac list, a recent post suggested some progress, so perhaps not!).

Personally I'd like to see anyone who can (potentially) make new hardware given a little bit of benefit of the doubt, it's a rare thing these days :( It would obviously be nice if it's a genuine thing if he'd help out on getting the the firebee out the door, but if he wants to do his own thing then fair enough. If it is all talk it will disappear quickly enough I'm sure. If it isn't then it would be nice to see something concrete obviously ;-)
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Re: Call for question on a new Atari

Postby joska » Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:51 pm

You don't need another OS below TOS to emulate ST hardware.

But personally I'd port TOS to the Raspberry Pi or a similar dirt-cheap computer, and add a 68k emulator for 68k applications. For games/demos or stuff that needs ST hardware you can simply run a complete ST-emulator under TOS.
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Re: Call for question on a new Atari

Postby Silly_Pony » Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:54 pm

joska wrote:You don't need another OS below TOS to emulate ST hardware.

But personally I'd port TOS to the Raspberry Pi or a similar dirt-cheap computer, and add a 68k emulator for 68k applications. For games/demos or stuff that needs ST hardware you can simply run a complete ST-emulator under TOS.


Then you might as well just run an ST emulator on windows. What I suggest would make it completely seamless.

Actually, It'd be interesting to bench an atom mobo vs a Pi to see if the increased cost would be worth the performance benefit. Par/ser/joy/midi on a PCI card and job done.
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Re: Call for question on a new Atari

Postby Zogging Hell » Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:03 pm

joska wrote:You don't need another OS below TOS to emulate ST hardware.

But personally I'd port TOS to the Raspberry Pi or a similar dirt-cheap computer, and add a 68k emulator for 68k applications. For games/demos or stuff that needs ST hardware you can simply run a complete ST-emulator under TOS.


Pretty much like Apple (dynamic recompilation) did when they moved to the PowerPC (and then Wintel). And I still think their Apple, well at least until it became OS X and ran on Intel chips, where it became Linux with nice shell running on a PC... :lol:
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Re: Call for question on a new Atari

Postby Zogging Hell » Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:04 pm

Silly_Pony wrote:
joska wrote:You don't need another OS below TOS to emulate ST hardware.

But personally I'd port TOS to the Raspberry Pi or a similar dirt-cheap computer, and add a 68k emulator for 68k applications. For games/demos or stuff that needs ST hardware you can simply run a complete ST-emulator under TOS.


Then you might as well just run an ST emulator on windows.


Nah you'd still have to run Windooze! Goodbye half your performance. And you'd have to use a very dull system architecture, whereas the Pi is quite interesting.
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Re: Call for question on a new Atari

Postby oehansen » Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:09 pm

Silly_Pony wrote:Okay, whatever. You're clearly set on being a hardware losethos, I won't stop you.


Took a look at his work, and basically what he says is true. Although I did find his computer example a bit slow, that he was showing ...

Think about it, you need a 1.5GHz computer, to emulate an 8MHz Atari ST.

I love the bloatedness of Windows, and I use Linux almost exclusively.

But, for a home user ... what do you want to do with all those NSA routines, that are there more to "keep an eye on you", rather than to make it easier for you to do you work? :cheers:

On my Atari, I did find the usual "monitors" rather poor. GFA MON was quite good, but I almost exclusively used it for "single stepping", and rarely anything else. But I loved to peek and poke into the memory, and TOS. So, I made my own monitor and based it on the, yeb keep your hat on ... the good old "Commodore Pet" style monitor. A sort of a command shell, with just a few commands to hunt, display, assemble/disassemble, and alter memory and registers. To use it, I created a shadow "screen", which was character oriented. Through this screen,you could move inside, alter any character on screen, and it would be displayed immediately on the correct screen. I used $A000 co-processor expansion to do it, and scrolling this screen was quite good. Better than any on normal st, and almost as good as on the PC at the time. I even made my own Emacs, that used this screen, instead of the crummy VT52 terminal mode one, that was about as annoying as a tooth ache.

LoseThos .. which stands for Lose the OS, I assume :-) is actually quite on the money. We were, and still ARE, the authors of Open Source. And 90% of the OS, such as Linux and Windows, is merely making your life miserable, rather than making it simpler. A good case in point, is that I often found that continuous updates for either, was messing up with my work. At times, I had the choice of "not-doing-and-staying-updated", or "doing-and-getting-out-of-date". Hardware bugs, kernel leaks, kernel bugs, this bug and that bug. Security updates ... for what? Only the NSA, or industrial spies, would actually have any interrest in peeking into my computer :roll: So, are those updates for me? :coffe: I came to the conclusion, and still hold on to that conclusion, that 90% of all bugs, malware, trojans and other attacks, were out there to keep the industry alive. Eternal updates, from nothing to nothing ... Big slogans, that keep popping up on my screen ... "keep your computer updated! or it may DIE!". :?: And when I go on the internet, to read forums I get "Don't read this site, it is known to ATTACK your computer" :roll: How is it going to attack my computer? Is "Freddy Kruger" going to crawl out of the internet and cut it with his scissor-hands? :lol: And when I still wanna go to that forum, I get another message "It's really really TRUE, this side will EAT YOUR COMPUTER" :roll: And people say China is bad! :roll:

So, "DUMP" the OS, is my slogan. Make yourself a decent hardware for your own use, and protect yourself and against NSA ... that way, you won't have to wear a TIN-FOIL-HAT in the future. :cheers:

I love my Linux though, basically because I grew up with a Unix environment, and getting myself an SGI was out of my pocket reach at the time. But, as a home user, that loves to use my computer for a lot of other stuff than to edit a worksheet, play music, watch a movie, browse the net. But to play with electronics, do I my own add-ons, my own hardware and/or software ... perhaps even my own OS, or even computer. Linux is a platform that primarily gives me access to GCC.

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Re: Call for question on a new Atari

Postby oehansen » Mon Apr 23, 2012 2:02 pm

Dal wrote:
The only reason XAAES doesn't run well on a standard ST is because it needs more RAM. Nothing to do with architecture per sé. In fact if you look at XAAES, there is a standard 68000 kernel module included. You could probably get it to run with a very simple XAAES.cnf, but it would not be pretty.



For me, it doesn't run *period*, it loads into memory ... and then exits on Fcntl run. It's an original Atari STE with 4Mb ram and tos 2.06. I have two, it runs on neither ...

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Re: Call for question on a new Atari

Postby Silly_Pony » Mon Apr 23, 2012 4:50 pm

oehansen I think you're an actual real life crazy person. I wish you good luck with the NSA black helicopters but for now I'm going to bow out of this thread.
1040STe, 1040STf

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Re: Call for question on a new Atari

Postby simonsunnyboy » Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:26 pm

oehansen wrote:
Dal wrote:
The only reason XAAES doesn't run well on a standard ST is because it needs more RAM. Nothing to do with architecture per sé. In fact if you look at XAAES, there is a standard 68000 kernel module included. You could probably get it to run with a very simple XAAES.cnf, but it would not be pretty.



For me, it doesn't run *period*, it loads into memory ... and then exits on Fcntl run. It's an original Atari STE with 4Mb ram and tos 2.06. I have two, it runs on neither ...


On Marcer's Game DVD tehre is an older version of Mint and XAAES and teradesk which ran on a similar configuration under Hatari for me.
I bet it runs on real hardware aswell. It's not really usable and slow but it runs.
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