setting up a Seagate ST51080N for mega STe

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setting up a Seagate ST51080N for mega STe

Postby FonZ » Sun May 23, 2010 11:00 pm

Today I bought 2 Seagate ST51080N for the amazing amount of 3,- euro :D

click

(there is a question coming, so all non-noobs, please read on!)

After searching this forum for guidelines to set up the jumpers on these things, some things were clear, others weren't (found a few dead links.. maybe the answer was there, who knows), so for all those other noobs like me, I thought I should post this completely unfunded piece of info. Feel free to correct me or add to it.

Image

- Leave the two horizontal jumpers on the left.
- Put a jumper on 'terminator disable'.
- Put a jumper on 'Power from drive power connector'.

Works like a charm for me!

My question is: these disks are very small, which makes me wonder if it would be possible to fit both (stacked they are still smaller then the original Seagate ST157N)?
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Re: setting up a Seagate ST51080N for mega STe

Postby techie_alison » Fri May 28, 2010 8:27 pm

Mmmm, pass. Can't believe we took so long to reply to this. MANY APOLOGIES!!!

How did you get on with the stacking?
If I don't answer or appear to have forgotton then email again, I'm scatty! :)

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Re: setting up a Seagate ST51080N for mega STe

Postby FonZ » Fri May 28, 2010 8:52 pm

Well, since I have no knowledge of basically anything I was simply thinking like this: pull a scsi 50pins ribbon with multiple connections out of my PC and just stick it in the machine, connect the two disks and have fun where possible, but in essence I have no idea if this is possible or if I could actually ruin something by simply trying.

And yes, I played around with the little green box with the three switches on controller board and saw the unit id change, so basically my mind started wandering off (at which point I always get affraid it doesn't want to return).

On the other hand, since I only use this machine to run Cubase and store some arrangments, I think 1gb will last me about ehm, 20 years :D and off course I need the ribbon in my PC to read out my Akai formatted Jaz disks..

So I didn't get passed the point of wondering and probably never will.. I'm also thinking it might become realy noisy..

BTW. Do you still have this mice problem? If so, I'm interested in helping you get rid of it.

PS. the only information I couldn't really find on here was about 'parity'. Now I have a slight idea of what it is, but the links I found referred to an old piece of a forum that didn't seem to exist anymore, so that jumper was trail and error.
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Re: setting up a Seagate ST51080N for mega STe

Postby wongck » Sat May 29, 2010 4:03 am

IIRC, parity is not used by Atari.
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Re: setting up a Seagate ST51080N for mega STe

Postby FonZ » Sat May 29, 2010 7:12 am

That parity wasn't used was quite clear to me, after fiddling with the jumper settings :D , but I would like some extra background information. Would you care to explain what IIRC actually is and what the difference is between an Atari using IIRC and another machine using parity?

Thanks in advance!
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Re: setting up a Seagate ST51080N for mega STe

Postby wongck » Sat May 29, 2010 10:47 am

:lol: LOL
IIRC = If I Remember Correctly.
Something that was used in BBS / Usenet days.
Just like LOL, RTFM... etc :mrgreen:
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Re: setting up a Seagate ST51080N for mega STe

Postby wongck » Sat May 29, 2010 11:00 am

Some information from this forum can be found here-SCSI hard drive list.
Look for the 2nd last post...
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Re: setting up a Seagate ST51080N for mega STe

Postby FonZ » Sat May 29, 2010 11:39 am

Therefore, like I said before, please elaborate because I'm a total dufus and have no real clue what I'm talking about.. :angel:

I even used to think 'scsi' was a word Itialians used to pardon themselves.. :wink:

BTW (that's one I know), that link you posted, it doesn't explain what parity is.

As far as I understand what parity is (and please correct me if I'm wrong); you got a row of bits (1 and 0) and you add a bit to state if the row of bits is odd or even. That way you can check (on a low level) if the transferred row of bits was correct.
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Re: setting up a Seagate ST51080N for mega STe

Postby simbo » Sat May 29, 2010 12:11 pm

1-2 nc {if two drives add a jumper here to the one last on the physical cable sets id to 1 }
3-4 nc
5-6 nc
7-8 not used
9-10 not used
11-12 not used
13 not used
15-16 jumper
17-18 no jumper
19-20 no jumper {if you want two drives add jumper here to last physica drive on the cable}
21-22 no jumper on either drive
23-24 jumper on both drives

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Re: setting up a Seagate ST51080N for mega STe

Postby FonZ » Sat May 29, 2010 12:19 pm

AHHH yes, a man with the info! I can even follow what you're trying to tell me here :D !

So basically, get a wire with multiple connections, setup the jumpers as you described and it all should work just fine and dandy right? No fiddling with the little green 3 pin switch box to enable or disable something or is that only to switch unit id with the acsi port?

BTW. any ideas on where to get the power? And I see you posted a lot about the psu, so I guess you're the one to ask if it doesn't put too much strain on the psu?

Thanks, I will give it a try and let all you kind folks know what the outcome was!

Much appreciated.
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Re: setting up a Seagate ST51080N for mega STe

Postby simbo » Sat May 29, 2010 1:01 pm

i dont know what you mean
little green switch box with three pins oh dont touch that
this is there too allow the internal interface to be asci lun0
and the external port as a lun 1 etc
in the mega you can remove the internal card
its there so you can boot from the external port if you like
and still use the internal adapter and drives

for power i would air on the side of caution with the mega own supply
use an old AT/ATX pc power supply for the drives and power on before the atari
if you cant find an old AT supply use an atx
to get an atx supply to power up
if you look on the cable head youll see a green wire usualy thin
just short this to ground {black or the case of the psu}
and it will power up

other than this yes you need a multiway cable and connect both drives
the only difference is termination on the physical middle drive is off
and for that matter the rule is first and last physical device have termination
so the acsi controller is the first and the last device is the one on the end

mega DMA<<>>acsi controller>> {may allow termination power some dont} >> <<id0 not terminated>> <<id1 terminated>>

other than this its just the 'id' you need to be unique for each unit connected on the scsi cable
the drive with id0 will be bootable
you can test a pin on the scsi header on the asci port and if its 5v then you have active termination power

so i see its a mega ste
so you want to set both drives

21-22 ...21-23
23-24 ...23-21

this goes across from 21.23 on both drives
this powers the termination from the scsi bus on both drives
however if the middle one{id0} has termination disabled then its setting of these two is ignored
however id1 drive at the end of the chain then takes its termination power from the mega

the termination settings are there becouse some scsi bus wont supply power
however the mega ste does and use its power becouse it makes transfers more stable
if the drives and machine dont share the same power supply

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Re: setting up a Seagate ST51080N for mega STe

Postby FonZ » Sat May 29, 2010 1:27 pm

Clear as a whistle! Thanks!

I'll have a better read on psu's first tho, since I have a mega ST4 with a dead psu I want to resurrect and I feel when going this far to get a second disk working, I might as well re-wire the whole darn mega STe and swap out the old psu altogether. So my current play is to first do the mega ST4 (just to know if I'm capable enough) and when that's all good, I'll move on to the mega STe (1 at a time tho!).

BTW. I either missed a bit or you added a bit. If I understand correctly you would advise to power the mainboard and the drives separately? Or would that be obsolete when swapping out the psu as a whole?

The little green box I'm reffering to is on the back of the internal hdd controller board (mega STe) and it has three switches with on/off. When I toggle them I see the unit id change when booting. I used it to connect a megafile together with the internal hdd, so I could pull all the data of the megafile. So in essence I know one thing I can do with these switches (thanks to this forum btw), but maybe there's more to it. (or maybe my lack of knowledge leads to an overkill of questions :lol: )

Anyway, I got a bunch of ATX psu's gathering dust here, so I'll defenitely give it a go!

ps. I already had a few hours reading your posts on psu's and other related topics. Great work and much appreciated to say the least!
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Re: setting up a Seagate ST51080N for mega STe

Postby simbo » Sat May 29, 2010 1:58 pm

as i said if you want to use more than 1 internal drive i would advise using another psu
as the mega psu isnt ment to have more than 1 although it may work

im sure the mega psu can be upgraded with an atx psu or micro atx etc
then you can have it all in the same case and no extra psu

i just ment the termination if you use an external psu should be powered from the megaste
it keeps the transfers stable as seperate psu interuduces some factors and maybe some packet loss during transfers
its best to power the termination {cable balance} from the mega

i did add to the post
so maybe read again
the internal jumper block should be set to 0 usualy 1-2 1-2 1-2 or 0 0 0 off off off etc is lun0

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Re: setting up a Seagate ST51080N for mega STe

Postby wongck » Sat May 29, 2010 2:13 pm

FonZ wrote:BTW (that's one I know), that link you posted, it doesn't explain what parity is.

As far as I understand what parity is (and please correct me if I'm wrong); you got a row of bits (1 and 0) and you add a bit to state if the row of bits is odd or even. That way you can check (on a low level) if the transferred row of bits was correct.

Oh, I though you mean why Atari needs parity disabled.
Anyway parity is just a method to test for data integrity, possibly using the method stated by your good self.
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Re: setting up a Seagate ST51080N for mega STe

Postby FonZ » Sat May 29, 2010 2:26 pm

@ simbo

Then I understood correctly I think, but I will re-read it (several times, no doubt), but when you mentioned adding an extra psu, I started making big plans :D

I mean, if I'm going to go through the trouble of adding a psu (with a learning curve in the shape of the eiffel tower), I might just as well do a proper job right? :wink:

Oh, and I understand you're probably just as a bad psychic as I am, so you couldn't foresee I already had plans to mod an ATX psu for my mega ST4 and was reading up on that, so basically your answer on the dual HDD's in combo with an additional psu ties in quite nicely and basically provides me with a working approach to more then one issue.

Much obliged!

First up, some new tips for the weller!

@ wongck

No problem. I was just wondering if there was another protocol the Atari might use and if so if that would affect anything. Guess not tho.

I still had to wrap my brain around the whole parity thing when I started this post and only today the penny dropped when I actually tried to put it into my own words :lol:
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Re: setting up a Seagate ST51080N for mega STe

Postby wongck » Sat May 29, 2010 3:06 pm

I had my SCSI stuff in an external enclosure and that has it's own PSU
I do not get any data packets corruptions as mentioned by Simbo even when
the terminations are on the external enclosure.
May be I am just lucky.
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Re: setting up a Seagate ST51080N for mega STe

Postby simbo » Sat May 29, 2010 4:00 pm

its nothing to do with if its on or off
more to do with what actual powers it
most drives use the bus anyway
these seagate can choose what powers the termination

it is not relevent unless you use seperate psu's as there 'could' be ground to ground and rail to rail differences
in supply voltage that 'can' effect transfers...

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Re: setting up a Seagate ST51080N for mega STe

Postby FonZ » Sat May 29, 2010 4:15 pm

Already grabbed a suitable ATX psu, cut the green wire, re-routed it back onto black, works like a charm! Pushed in the multi cable, set the jumpers and hi-ho-hi-ho, unit:0 and unit:1 are active!

Perfect! You the man Simbo!

Now, I got a whole bunch of wires coming out of the psu going to the big square mobo connector.
- 4x red
- 8x black
- 4x orange
- 1x purple
- 1x yellow
- 1x blue
- 1x grey

and the mega ST4 has
- 2x red
- 3x black
- 1x blue

(I'm assuming it's the same in the mega STe, didn't open that part of the casing yet.)

So, what goes where? Red onto red, black onto black, blue onto blue and the rest can go fish? I can't seem to find a post with some decent info and/or instructions, so if it's out there, feel free to point me to it, so to not ruin this post on using multiple internal HDD's.

I got my multi meter up close, but I'm too much a noob, so I need some confirmation before I have the nerve to fry the whole block :twisted:
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Re: setting up a Seagate ST51080N for mega STe

Postby simbo » Sat May 29, 2010 4:34 pm

http://www.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&q= ... CDgQsAQwAw

this is all you need

Image

yellow is +12v
red is +5v
black is 0v ground
blue on the mega is +12v{yellow} not the same as blue on the atx!!!!
connect as appropriate

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Re: setting up a Seagate ST51080N for mega STe

Postby wongck » Sat May 29, 2010 4:47 pm

simbo wrote:it is not relevent unless you use seperate psu's as there 'could' be ground to ground and rail to rail differences
in supply voltage that 'can' effect transfers...


My external devices are powered from a 240 to 110V step down transformer to the enclosure 110V PSU as the enclosure was the old 40MB Syquest system that I purchased from US. My TT runs on 240V mains and so they are on separate power. My falcon uses the 240V ATX PSU for the CT63.

What do I need to do to make all these PSU not have rail-rail difference to avoid the data corruption ?
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Re: setting up a Seagate ST51080N for mega STe

Postby FonZ » Sat May 29, 2010 5:01 pm

I'm more unsure about the blue on the Atari, but after reading your post I assume yellow goes there. I'll give it a shot, make some pictures while I'm at it.
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Re: setting up a Seagate ST51080N for mega STe

Postby FonZ » Sat May 29, 2010 7:40 pm

Simbo for president!

Image

So I'll solder it up and start planning on a re-casing to a 19" unit while I'm at it with some UltraSatan inside. It would be great if that could also house a midex. That way I could extend all midi ins and outs to the front panel of the unit, that would be awesome!

Thanks again Simbo, you've been a great help! I already got 2 other atx psu to do my two mega STe's.

ps. the fan noise is also reduced by a zillion.
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Re: setting up a Seagate ST51080N for mega STe

Postby FonZ » Sat May 29, 2010 10:36 pm

pps. Just added an extra power feed for my megafile30, man this rocks!
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Re: setting up a Seagate ST51080N for mega STe

Postby munkie » Sat Oct 09, 2010 11:48 am

You know i had been busy trying for 3 hours straight to get a lot of SCSI2 HD's to work with my latest acquisition, a Mega STe. 4 MB RAM, old 48 Mb noisy Seagate etc. I have two(2) Seagate ST51080N 's in the lot. Strangely enough you have to have the two spares in place.

Made partitions, now it starts up, 4 X 250 Mb ready to use!

YOU'RE DA MAN!! :mrgreen:
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