Modified ST hassles

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Re: Modified ST hassles

Postby ralcool » Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:20 pm

I've made it specifically to fit a Mega, and most STs. The annoying part is, you will have to solder a socket onto your CPU.

Its not as hard as it sounds. I'll supply a 64pin socket for you guys to fit.

But socketed ROMs reduce the installation problems, rip em out, and install my modified 32pin chips. With a nice switch for 1.xx / 2.06 select.

I'll supply advice on how to jumper the motherboards so they work.

ST.
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Postby DarkLord » Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:22 pm

ralcool wrote:Prototype #1 on the way.

Cheers. :cheers:

ST.


Looking forward to it. :)
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Postby wongck » Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:23 pm

Great to see RalCool at it again.... making cool upgrades !! :thumbs:
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Postby ralcool » Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:26 pm

Should have seen the sick subwoofer I made for my young neighbour last week- pity my camera was away with the wifey....

12 inches of sub harmonic bliss... hehehe. 22mm MDF custom fitted to his ute/ pickup.

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Re: Modified ST hassles

Postby spiny » Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:28 pm

ralcool wrote:I've made it specifically to fit a Mega, and most STs. The annoying part is, you will have to solder a socket onto your CPU.

Its not as hard as it sounds. I'll supply a 64pin socket for you guys to fit.

But socketed ROMs reduce the installation problems, rip em out, and install my modified 32pin chips. With a nice switch for 1.xx / 2.06 select.

I'll supply advice on how to jumper the motherboards so they work.

ST.



sounds cool :) I am owed a favour from a friend who does soldering for a living, so i'd get him to add the socket I think :)

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Re: Modified ST hassles

Postby ralcool » Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:32 pm

I used this pic from the wiki to hopefully ensure it will fit a Mega

wiki/images/5/57/ST_Motherboard_C100167-001_Rev_5_0_jokker.jpg

Looking forward to sending you one Spiny.

ST.

edit, I apologise to the STE owners, but it is so much harder given I don't have one to play with- and they don't lend themselves to easy chip mounting of accessories.
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Postby ralcool » Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:59 pm

Geez, Its going to cost me at least $15 for one pair of 29F040 ROMs (that can hold 4x TOS versions), and are cheaper than 020's... wierd.

I'm going for at least a set of 10, to create 5 pairs of flashable 29f040-90ns ROMs for 5 kits. Best price so-far is $A32 for 10 in bulk. (EeeBaay, China)

Always better in bulk orders.

It is then possible to actually have Quad TOS flashable ability... I'll wire them for Dual (Less hassle, and switching).. but you can modify them further for Quad.

Sound Okay?

ST.

PS, I still have plenty of 27c256 ROMs if you only want to add a 6ms step rate modified Lo-0 ROMs to a 6 chip TOS 1.2/1.4 ST with a HD mod. And two complete 'kits'.
Modified Sony HD drive and HD board. No driver required. Boot from 1.44Mb Disk natively. (However we have learned that your own WD1772 may not like it.)

I'm not doing this for profit, just cost of parts and postage. And beer :)
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Postby ralcool » Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:48 pm

joska wrote:
ralcool wrote:Actually, I'd like a Mega ST keyboard just to have a decent keyboard that isn't perched on a short lead.


16/32 have unused TT keyboards at very reasonable prices. I've already bought two.

ralcool wrote:However, the final design is (should be) capable of TOS flashing, 1.xx / 2.06 and IDE control. On a single layer board.
There will be some top links, but nothing major.


Will you sell these? I have a 520 that I would love to fit with IDE and a CF-card filled with games.


Could you provide a specific link to 16/32 TT-Keyboards, I've been looking about- but can't find anything yet.

Maybe I'm a little tired. But their site 'webshop' doesn't show much for sale.

The whole webpage seems hard to navigate/ poor quality. Perhaps I'll send an email.

ST.

PS, I will gladly sell you a IDE / TOS board once I have proven my latest CAD board is okay. (I know the design/logic is sound- this version is mearly derivative from what I'm using now)
This is more just proving the routing and PCB of this version is correct. Nothing major. Price will be minimal. Let me test the prototype, and all systems are GO!

Goodnight all.
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Postby DarkLord » Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:05 pm

ralcool wrote:I used this pic from the wiki to hopefully ensure it will fit a Mega

wiki/images/5/57/ST_Motherboard_C100167-001_Rev_5_0_jokker.jpg

Looking forward to sending you one Spiny.

ST.

edit, I apologise to the STE owners, but it is so much harder given I don't have one to play with- and they don't lend themselves to easy chip mounting of accessories.


My Mega ST actually has quite a bit of room to play with. Given that the AdSpeed accelerator in mine is actually *taller* than the T series boards (but not nearly as wide), look at the room around mine:

SAM_1543.JPG


The AdSpeed boards are so cool. They are highly configurable. You can jumper them to boot up in 8 or 16mhz mode, cache on, cache off. You get an ACC that will let you switch it on the fly. There is a small 16mhz graphic that sits in the upper left hand corner on your desktop, showing your speed. It also has a configuration file that lets you list programs that don't behave well with it and you can set it so that when you execute that program, it will automatically tell the AdSpeed to down shift to 8mhz, cache or no cache. Very well thought out.

Unfortunately, of the half dozen or so accelerator boards I currently have, its the ONLY one I've got that has full English documentation and original factory software with it. That's because I bought it from a dealer originally.

Sure wish I could say the same about the T16, T25, PAK board, and the new (unknown) board I picked up yesterday.
:(
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Postby ralcool » Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:22 pm

That board sits so tight. Wow. You can so totally put the IDE/TOS board under that ADspeed, no prob. BUT,

I'm struggling to find extended pin 64pin sockets or just extended length round pin machined strips outside the norm to allow 'piggybacking' on top. Through a pcb board.

Most are 2.54mm pins... I need longer. Otherwise I have to find specialist suppliers of these parts. (And not apparently on Fleabay)

I know they exist. I have OEM mods here that are 'longer'.

(Same for 40pin sockets to mount a decent 72pin ram mod on the shifter).... we need more length.

Otherwise I'm reduced to using doubled ended male pins that don't have a female portion for mounting ADspeed/ATspeed/PAK, ON TOP.

It is fine for simple mounting on a cpu socket, but for installing something else on top- you're out of luck.

I know we can find it. (I'll show a pic tomorrow showing the difference)

Off to bed for me.

ST.
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Postby DarkLord » Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:25 pm

ralcool wrote:I always thought the STacy was a bit darker... nevermind.

Cheers. :cheers:

ST.


Meant to reply to this earlier and forgot about it. It actually is darker, its
just that the flash from the camera is actually making it look lighter. :)
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Postby joska » Wed Nov 23, 2011 7:17 am

ralcool wrote:Could you provide a specific link to 16/32 TT-Keyboards, I've been looking about- but can't find anything yet.


They seem to be out of keyboards. They used to sell unused, boxed TT-keyboards for £25 - quite a lot cheaper than the ones currently available on eBay.

ralcool wrote:PS, I will gladly sell you a IDE / TOS board once I have proven my latest CAD board is okay. (I know the design/logic is sound- this version is mearly derivative from what I'm using now)
This is more just proving the routing and PCB of this version is correct. Nothing major. Price will be minimal. Let me test the prototype, and all systems are GO!


Good :) I guess there's nothing that keeps it from working in a STE? Except for the socket of course, I'm prepared to install it using jumper wires.
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Postby ralcool » Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:59 pm

You so wouldn't want to do that. There would be wires everywhere.

Remember this pic? (From the wiki... gawd its huge)

Image

This is Pperas' motherboard. You can see the address lines connections to the red resister packs.
But the datalines are crazy... This is prototyping at its best :)

I think also you can see his autostep HD mod on verboard.

..........


I'm still playing with the CAD, I'm never happy until everything looks finished.

IDE_CPU_TOS_Final_2.jpg



I've added some more gnd and power links, a Write protect jumper for the ROMs, Decoupling capacitor. And trace changes for a few more resisters and adjustments.

...........

Mario Becroft had the best set of finished IDE/TOS boards. An ST/Mega version, then the TOSless STE version.

http://gem.win.co.nz/mb/atarihw/ide.html

It would be great to reproduce that design. Professional produced pcb boards.

If the girls leave me alone for a couple hrs, I'll finally etch it.

Fun eh :coffe:

ST.
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Postby joska » Wed Nov 23, 2011 1:56 pm

ralcool wrote:You so wouldn't want to do that. There would be wires everywhere.


That's OK, I don't look inside it everyday :)

ralcool wrote:I'm still playing with the CAD, I'm never happy until everything looks finished.

IDE_CPU_TOS_Final_2.jpg


Have you considered making a version with a double CF-card slot instead of a 40-pin IDE connector? Or maybe a 44-pin connector?

ralcool wrote:Mario Becroft had the best set of finished IDE/TOS boards. An ST/Mega version, then the TOSless STE version.


Yes, that was a nice one. I had the STE-version in a STE in 1998. I managed to shoehorn a 3.5" drive inside a standard 4Mb STE :D
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Postby ralcool » Wed Nov 23, 2011 2:06 pm

joska wrote:Have you considered making a version with a double CF-card slot instead of a 40-pin IDE connector? Or maybe a 44-pin connector?


Yes I did, but I figured I can install a 90* angle 40pin header, and then you can choose either an IDE cable, or a Single/Dual CF adapter.
The adapter will lay flat/horizonal in the ST.

Those adapters are like $2 on ebay. (random 5second search)
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DUAL-CF-40Pi ... 3ca716d670

Plenty of room to plug one in directly on the IDE board and I've configured the 40 pin header to provide power on Pin 20 as per the spec.

And I'm using a tight little 40-44pin converter myself to run my 2.5" HDD mounted under my floppy. Again $2.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2-5-IDE-HDD- ... 5adc7504f5

Keeps my board simple.

ST.
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Postby ralcool » Sun Nov 27, 2011 3:09 pm

Okay, Here is the final design ready for the chemical bath tonight. ( I hope )

The first 16Mhz overclock included IDE & Dual or Quad TOS flashable board heavily modified to fit both Megas, and normal STs.

Made to suit my construction skills and parts availability.

Project_IDE.jpg


I have been delayed a few days due to an awesome motorcycling event, and after some time away from the keyboard- I've been able to trim and enhance
the overall design. Getting this bugger to fit a Mega ST has taken a few creative ideas and measuring of photos.

The overclock circuit is mearly an addition,(For Spiny) but required finding how to reduce track area behind the cpu/expansion bus connector. I think I've got it.
Some necessary decoupling caps, and disabling jumpers are fitted. To allow staged installation.

On paper, and extensive checking- it should work out fine. Testing the real thing will show if its any good.

The ROMS are setup to mount into the Hi/Lo-0 sockets of the ST, and as little as 3 control wires will let them work. Saves a heap of hassle mounting them to the upgrade board.

I've ordered the 90* IDC connectors, and 5 sets of ROMs. I have enough PCB stock for a couple of boards... let me know if you want the full overclockable version- or just IDE/TOS.

Long day today....22hrs awake, and some 8hrs of driving to Melbourne and back. Somehow I looked at my cad drawings after midnight- and saw some 'obvious' improvements.

Strange world.

ST. :cheers:
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Postby wongck » Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:04 am

ralcool wrote:The first 16Mhz overclock included IDE & Dual or Quad TOS flashable board heavily modified to fit both Megas, and normal STs.


8O 8O OMG you cannot be serious !!
I guess this is something every ST owner is waiting for.
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Postby DarkLord » Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:49 am

Yep, that is some seriously cool stuff.

2 Thumbs up Sean! :)
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Postby Shredder11 » Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:07 pm

Yeah who says Atari ST dreams cannot come true! :cheers:

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Re: Modified ST hassles

Postby ralcool » Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:32 am

Shucks, Well the overclock isn't as advanced like the AD-Speed or Mach16 with cache and other hardware to allow full 16mhz operation.

But it does run the ST faster like I've previously shown- and will include the AutoSwitch wiring and enable/disable software I modified.
Internal processing when the cpu is not accessing the bus is at 16Mhz, and drops to 8 for outside loads and stores.

Sweet compromise.

Back to work- I want it in copper. (Plus Mr Postman better bring my header pins soon)

ST. :cheers:
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Postby DarkLord » Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:13 am

Sean, is there going to be any limitations on the IDE part? Aside from normal TOS
limits, that is.

Should be able to use a 3.5" or say...a 2.5" drive? I'm assuming SATA is out. :)
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Postby ralcool » Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:05 am

Well, I've used a 10Gb 3.5" HDD (from an old Xbox), my current 80Gb 2.5" drive, and a 2Gb CF card on my ST so far.
It is using the same decoder GAL this board will run.

Plus I've added power to Pin 20 of the IDE connector- so a CF adapter can run without any additional power connections.

I'd reckon one of those little IDE to SATA converters is worth a try too. SATA can run in IDE mode.

The drivers I've been using are Pperas' own , and it seems to work fine. Both twisted and regular IDE mode.

I did try a different driver once.. can't remember the name... might have been AHDI_6, it did detect okay too. But I didn't do an Atari format.

So, I'd say no limit outside the usual partitioning rules.

Cheers.

ST. :cheers:
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Postby DarkLord » Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:01 pm

Awesome, that's some great flexibility there then.

Nothing like having choices, choices, choices.

Put me down as confirmed for 1 kit. :)
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Postby ralcool » Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:53 pm

Where you you plan to install it Ron?

Surely the space above the CPU on the STacy is far too tight for another board?

ST. :cheers:
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Postby DarkLord » Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:15 pm

ralcool wrote:Where you you plan to install it Ron?

Surely the space above the CPU on the STacy is far too tight for another board?

ST. :cheers:


Oh no, not the STacy... If I can fix the PAK board I got, that'll go in the STacy. If not,
she gets one of my T25 boards.

No, I was looking at using this board on my Mega ST4. I know, it currently has an
AdSpeed accelerator in it, but your board would help with several things for it.
It would give an accelerator, it would upgrade the system to TOS 2.06, and (what
I'm really looking at) is a solid IDE upgrade. Currently, I've got a Link2, hooked
up to a 4 gig SCSI hard drive. This is the setup that runs my BBS. Now here is
the thing...I bought this SCSI drive in 1990 something. Its *still* going, with no
errors, but it definitely is not getting any younger and you can't hardly find
any reliable small SCSI hard drives anymore.

So I was going to buy one of your kits and hold on to it for -when- the SCSI
drive fails. :)

BTW, do you think there would be any problems with HDDriver (latest version)
in combination with your IDE setup + a SCSI subsystem? I'd still be wanting to
hang on to the SCSI part for my CDRW on this setup that I use for backup.

Or maybe that would just have to be something that would need testing...
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