Modified ST hassles

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Re: Modified ST hassles

Postby DarkLord » Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:12 am

ralcool wrote:You were bored. :lol: I truely understand. Nice job of it tho. Clearly neater.


See what sitting around waiting for recompiled, modified English PAK TOS v3.06 Eproms does to a man? :)

ralcool wrote:I reformatted and reload the C: partition of my internal mounted 2.5" 80Gb HDD today.. Everything boots well. (Aftercareful removing and plugging into my USB - IDE 44pin adapter to do it on the PC)

All the mods kick in like usual and Devpac3 is operational again from h:.

On a side note.. somehow I left the ST running last night.. was over 12hrs before I re-entered the room and noticed. Overclocked and Overscanning.
It was running ST-Guide and the Lascan 'hypertext' page open and viewing. (So even the old 10Gb XBOX hdd is reliable?!)

Everything was fine. Screen Saver was alternating the (mono) colours, and the mouse was moving. Nice. (I even have the proper 16Mhz CPU removed ATM... for previous fault finding)

ST. Happy new years eve! :cheers:


Sounds like you're ready to rev up your development cycle again.

Happy New Years (Eve) to you too ! :)
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Postby ralcool » Sat Dec 31, 2011 8:20 am

You know, I've wondered how hard it could be to add an index to the first page of my thread.

I might have to rejig some stuff so others can quickly find useful crap like FDD configuring, or something.
Maybe make a page of 'info' learned.

Only another project to look at....:P, a payback to the Forum?

But don't worry, the CAD program is never closed- I have some paper tigers waiting to get out.

ST.
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Postby wongck » Sat Dec 31, 2011 3:05 pm

ralcool wrote:You know, I've wondered how hard it could be to add an index to the first page of my thread.


Something like this, will be quick to do if you know where you want to bookmark.

1. ROM mounted TOS/IDE board PCB
2. ROM mounted TOS/IDE board PCB with 2 TOS choices (hi/lo to A18) and programming support
etc
etc

I have seen some forum that have numbers on each post, so one can reference the post with those numbers. Unfortunately, this forum don't seems to have.
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Postby ralcool » Sat Dec 31, 2011 11:41 pm

wongck wrote:
ralcool wrote:You know, I've wondered how hard it could be to add an index to the first page of my thread.


Something like this, will be quick to do if you know where you want to bookmark.

1. ROM mounted TOS/IDE board PCB
2. ROM mounted TOS/IDE board PCB with 2 TOS choices (hi/lo to A18) and programming support

I have seen some forum that have numbers on each post, so one can reference the post with those numbers. Unfortunately, this forum don't seems to have.


Cool, Well continuing with the theme... things I figure are interesting........

3. First view of HD FDD pcb

4. How to install a 2.5" HDD under the FDD.

5. Modified 'Autoswitch' Overclock pcb developed.

6. Pic of a functional 'TomK' PS2 mouse adapter.

7. Mod a Sony MPF920 FDD for ST & HD use. And further down a complete 'kit'

8. First shot of functional Lascan screen. And below it, the 72pin RAM / 16Mhz pcb almost built.

9. How to disable original 68000 cpu

10. First draft IDE/TOS/OC cpu mounted board

11. Experimental HighSpeed ROM function result

12. A look at the simplest TOS ROM mounting board. Sister board to the IDE/TOS adapter.

13 How the Atari looked with everything installed.

14. Amazing it actually works (old vid)

15. Bytes to change for 6ms HD FDD in TOS

16. Fit an easy Dallas RTC to your ST- support software found & Y2k ready.



Perhaps I should actually place this information on page one????

Anyway, enough for now.

ST. :cheers:
Last edited by ralcool on Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:38 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Postby ralcool » Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:57 am

It might seem I'm flapping about.

But actually, while I'm still waiting for fresh copper- I am amusing myself in CAD.

The cpu mounted IDE board and controlling a seperate basic, single & flashable TOS rom board are finished. Ready to make into copper. Any errors found in practice will be delt with. Paper checks show everything is fine.

The version with the overclock circuit added is simply -gravy. Not important now. (And only a tiny extra)

I'm rather keen to build this one since its reasonably simple- and for everyone. Get IDE working at least off the cpu. Allow a usable TOS to run it.

......

While they are waiting, I've been configuring a Multi-TOS board in the same one piece Lo-0/Hi2 socket pcb.... one with jumpers, another using a PIC or Popsels AVR code.....either way.
(Still trying to learn PIC programming)... so many options here..... but another pcb or two are basically ready to play with. It can run from the existing IDE board. No changes.

This will be the TOS expansion side of the IDE/TOS mod.

(Although I'll make the simpler-er jumperable one now I reckon.. since the ROMs are here & the ST is open) Will be fun making a microcontroller version later...... :)

.......
And for fun, building a similar but derivative board with only two chips extra, and maybe six wires to solder, a TOS 2.06 only mod. Based off another public diagram. Mounts to the ROM sockets.
No IDE HDD, no multiTOS for now (but implemented) , No cpu mounted crap.... just a few wires.. just single TOS2.06 for any major STF/FM.

Those extra two chips perform the decoding logic for 2.06.. neat logic solution instead of a GAL, but can still allow a MultiTOS & Flashable option.

Like that?? 8)

.......

But damn it, Mega STs and other older versions of the basic ST don't mount their ROMs the same way- So I have to make a version like popsel that is more flexable.
Or resort to mounting the OS ROMs on the cpu mounted board itself. One shot solution.

....

Tracing out the Alt RAM 8Mb mod is an exercise in mental abuse...... For now it sits as that open screen you occasionally walk up to and add something. Maybe 30% done.
Part of me wants to program a GAL to eliminate a good portion of the logic.... the other part of me says- you'll go mad trying too. Lack of experience error.....

Putting a schematic into copper routing requires some thought.

See?, I told you there is much to do. :lol: :coffe: I hope there isn't a rush?

ST. :cheers:
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Postby DarkLord » Sun Jan 01, 2012 8:43 am

ralcool wrote:Perhaps I should actually place this information on page one????

Anyway, enough for now.

ST. :cheers:


Yep, definitely first page stuff. :)
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Postby DarkLord » Sun Jan 01, 2012 8:49 am

No rush on anything. There are too many half-done projects out there that don't work.
Take your time, get it right, get it stable. .

One of the best things for me, following this thread, is watching the creative process
involved. I for one am learning a lot. Very instructive. Thanks!

Oh, Happy New Year! I had to work tonight, but at the Med Surg Nurses station, we
were streaming the light show from Sydney - fantastic! Bet it would be wonderful to
be there and watch it live.
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Postby ralcool » Sun Jan 01, 2012 10:48 am

DarkLord wrote:
ralcool wrote:Perhaps I should actually place this information on page one????

Anyway, enough for now.

ST. :cheers:


Yep, definitely first page stuff. :)


Well, Page one, post one has been updated.... Probably not the last time. :lol:

ST.
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Postby DarkLord » Sun Jan 01, 2012 2:19 pm

ralcool wrote:Well, Page one, post one has been updated.... Probably not the last time. :lol:
ST.


I certainly hope its not the last time! :)
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Postby ralcool » Wed Jan 04, 2012 11:12 am

So, I'm just messing around tonight.

But perhaps some of you may find this interesting. (Like whatever :roll: ....)

For fun, I decided to mount my 'SuperMon' cartridge roms internally. Like since I'm only using sockets Lo-0, and Hi-2 for my current IDE adapter, and the future MultiTOS-ROM board.

I thought, "Why not mount the Supermon ROMs internally on their respective, and now basically spare 'TOS' Lo or Hi sockets, and then rewire the ROM4 select to their CE pins." I used Lo-2 and Hi-1.
The rom4 line I stole from the motherboard off a via. (Remember it is generated by the GLU for cartridge use)

Then additionally, I can plug in the Dallas RTC chip to the remaining Hi-0 ... ala d8-16, socket (like it was in the cartridge)

I didn't just rip up my nice little cartridge- I only removed my now socketed RTC chip, and then burnt a pair of blank 27c256 ROMs lying on my shelf with Supermon code.

Its slightly wierd, but it turns out, the dallas chip mirrors all the Hi datalines on its socket, but Chip select (CE) gets diverted through the dallas chip before it reaches both the normal ROMs.
This is how its wired in the cartridge. I also didn't bother wiring OEs to the LDS/UDS pins like they were in the cartridge.. just being grounded is fine. Like the rest of the OS ROMs like usual.

So for now, the debug/RTC 'cartridge' is internally mounted. And I'm happy with that. And it reads the clock time nicely. (Using also the y2k-fix program for patching)

I've had the idea for ages but haven't bothered to do it. I'd rather just plug the dallas chip by itself into a TOS rom socket- and have a little program find and read it.
For now, I need Supermon to run from the cartridge 'address' range and do that job for me. (But it has other benefits too)

.....

So for sh!ts and g!ggles, I loaded up Cab 1.5... No internet ability on my ST yet, and its probably silly anyway. (But I'll buy a 'simple' ethernet card off Zaxon when they are done... took ages to remove the hdd and load the stuff I'm gonna talk about next... ethernet would be neater.. and even possibly slower.. but I'm lazy)

Having installed CAB, I wanted to test it.... I have a decent 'offline' webpage of some stuff I decided to buy on CD for permanant archives a couple years ago. Just alternative health/energy info.. etc and more.
The folder is just over a gigabyte for all the files.. pics & all that...... so I loaded it to a 'spare' partition on the STs 80Gb drive. (With the PC USB-IDE adapter)

Lets give the modded ST a bit of a flogging. A massive html archive loaded from IDE.

Amusingly, It 'only' takes 10 solid minutes to load the 'index.htm' page. :lol: Overclocked/Overscanned, and running off proper TwistedIDE. 8O
Somehow I still have about 900k of free RAM when its finished loading/rendering/whatever.????!

Mind you CAB looks nice in Overscan. (Only Mono on my LCD monitor, but the picture fills the screen....love it when something works).. 688x480, on 19" LCD. Sweet.

Clicking on 'links' are reasonably quick and images are dithered as you would expect. Nice.

The ST has been powered up for more than 12hrs,,, okay most of the daylight hours- troubleshooting and otherwise..... I'm really happy.

Need to remember to play with the Atari sometimes.

ST. :cheers:

PS, Here is the current 'live' version of that website.. http://www.rexresearch.com/
Get lost in that..... :lol: I've used a few ideas gleaned from the massive archive that is there....Amazing stuff.
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Postby Shredder11 » Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:17 pm

Haha love it......especially the overscan bit which made me smile.

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Re: Modified ST hassles

Postby ralcool » Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:41 pm

Here is a couple of images that might make you puke.

IMG_3948s.jpg


IMG_3949s.jpg


This is my Blitter Chip & socket on my beloved and much hacked about STFM

I noticed lately some green 'fluff' growing around the socket. Its been getting worse. The IDE HDD has been starting to 'hang' randomly- I figured this could be a good reason.. :lol:
Pperas' driver uses the blitter to improve speed- even if twisted cable mode is used...apparently.

Thought I better see to it that it gets cleaned up. This motherboard has plenty of areas where corrosion and crap is taking a toll.

The ST has lived in salty coastal regions most of its life, and the board on close inspection is not pretty. That it even works should be a suprise.

Out comes the toothbrush and some Methylated Spirits to attempt a clean. Several attempts later... it finally boots and passes GemBench again. (It could fail again anytime really)
Mind you its been running most of the day just fine before this repair, running Supermon... trying to reverse engineer its RTC clock setting software. Might have a few ideas.... woot!

Result
Chip removed with PLCC extractor, scrubbed and cleaned socket and chip. Reinserted and locked after testing completed.
IMG_3950s.jpg


I've been trying to modify the software to read the RTC from the TOS address range instead of the Cartridge 'port'.... I know we can simply 'plug' the RTC Dallas chip under a TOS ROM instead.
No soldering required on ANY (socketed) STF, FM, M, or even STE!.. remove a TOS chip, and insert the dallas RTC under it. Remove the setting & reading bits from the Supermon code- and later
turn it into a 'auto' folder program...probably need to add TOS version detection too.... found a thread for & about, that.....nice. (damn TOS 2.xx address changes)

Reading the Dallas manual I have almost learnt how to 'poll' the clock chip and read its data.... now I need to recode the RTC 'driver' to a different address... I wish I had the original SuperMon source code.
So I'll at least change any references to the FAxxxx addresses to FCxxxx or E00000... seems simple... :?: .. nothing like some hex editing! Then we'll look at writing a stand alone program.
Baby Steps!

This (at the bottom in Hi-0) is where my RTC chip is located for now. In Hi-1 is one of the Supermon Roms. It could be ON the Dallas chip- but this way I have control of wiring. Like currently CE is hooked to ROM4.
IMG_3951s.jpg



Anyway, Sad to see time attacking the old girl....

Also remember folks- ALWAYS clean the flux residue from areas you do soldering- ultimately flux is corrosive and will eat your good work. Free tip from me :) (Even if I fail to sometimes!)

ST. :oops: Keeping this old girl on life support is the only way I get to play on Atari. Otherwise I'd be on the hunt for a replacement...Much Fun :roll:

PS, I'm STILL waiting for more PCB material to arrive- dang Christmas has slowed the mail considerably.......blogging on..
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Postby DarkLord » Wed Jan 11, 2012 2:29 pm

Sean, am I remembering right when I think you said at one point that
you changed a TOS ROM to recognize the HD mod, or set the ROM so
that HD drive support was added?

I tried looking through this thread, but.... :roll:
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Postby ralcool » Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:09 pm

Well sort of.

I did a hex edit of the TOS 1.xx where it sets the step rate of the FDD at power up to 6ms instead of 3ms. Voila HD support!
Gets rid of the need to run the Step6m.prg.

Since its only one byte altered, it is possible to just replace a single TOS chip in a 6chip TOS. (Lo-0 actually)

Then I noticed retro fitted TOS 2.06 didn't display the High Density format option- since we don't have that jumper like STEs to enable it.
So I asked Ppera for assistance, and he worked out a different byte to change in TOS to bypass the check (set a cookie?), and show the menu.
TOS2.06 already sets the step rate to 6ms- so nothing needed altering there.

ST. :cheers:

Quick find page updated.
15. Bytes to change for 6ms HD FDD in TOS
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Postby DarkLord » Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:51 am

Okay yeah, that link was it. Thanks!
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Postby DarkLord » Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:19 am

Okay, another set of questions... kind of offtopic so I apologise Sean.

Do you have a mass storage device on your Atari? Seems like you said
you did, IDE or CF or something...

Here is my question, are you running RAMTOS and the 2.06 image from
floppy drive or from your mass storage device(s)?

Reason I'm asking is I can get RAMTOS and that modified 2.06 image to
work just fine from my floppy drive on my STacy, but I absolutely can not
get it to work from C on my Ultrasatan. :(

I copied the exact same setup from the floppy I use to my C drive and it
announces it self during boot, never says its searching for, or loading
an image.

I'm just trying to figure out why its not working from the Ultrasatan.

Thanks!
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Postby ralcool » Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:30 am

In order of questions..

Yes, I still use my internal 2.5" 80Gb IDE for mass storage and general use.

I don't use RAMTOS or SELTOS anymore. When I did- it was like you- off floppy. My TOS 2.06 loads properly from my ROM/IDE board these days. I reburn/flash them if I change something.

I have found RAMTOS or SELTOS do work differently. And are slightly different to configure- as per the readme files.

So I did some testing for you.....I tried mucking about a little bit on my bootable D: partition... and RAMTOS7B did the same thing to me... . found no image/TOS files in the root folder.
ala when I put an RTOS.IMG in the root- it didn't find it.

SELTOS7.prg however.... worked. It needs the TOS *.IMGs in the root directory, but the file name doesn't matter... it will detect any/all/multiple. Pick one from the menu and it boots.

RAMTOS7 also worked. Same config except only place a single TOS *.IMG in root, no selector used- just a reboot into new TOS (It found the RTOS.IMG fine and loaded it..)
I tried other file names, and they were found also- like its supposed too.

Goodluck.. maybe you're not using the *7.prg versions?.. and maybe 7B is buggy...(Given it couldn't find RTOS.IMG in the root dir from HDD... weird)

RAMTOS7.ZIP

ST :cheers:

PS, I don't care about offtopic.....This is a discussion thread, you'll always find me in here... :) - Hey, my chinese waterpump I bought is useless.. cannot work out why, but it now can barely produce half the original pressure it originally gave only a month ago. So I spent today rebuilding my old pump with new bearing and seals. Success. :mrgreen: ... Having the chance to have a new & somehow faulty ( but at least working) backup pump gave me confidence to go ahead and tear down the old one. (Fixing the old pump didn't concern me- finding out that something major I couldn't get/or corroded, or totally screwed-was
going to prevent a shower, etc for a day, week or more... not good, must have a backup) It is essential for me/us to have our only tank based water supply. In the end, all is good.
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Postby 1024MAK » Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:26 am

Ah, clocks and time.
Been a bit busy with life, ZX81's, Christmas and work :(
Anyway, a couple of years ago I did some research, with the idea of adding a RTC chip to an STFM.
Finding, let alone buying a commercial cartridge clock from BITD on eBay appeared to be like mission impossible.
So the options as I saw them were:
Find the same type of RTC as used in a mega ST (and apart from Y2K bug fixes, no extra software needed is what I was thinking),
Use the same type as used in a Falcon,
Or select a current RTC chip and sort out all the software myself.
Then some other options presented themselves: - UltraSatan. Problem sorted :D
However, while searching I found this: "A-Real Time Clock Version 3.60 by Bill Penner". See attachment for more...
areal36.doc

I do have the files that came with this. Once I sort myself out, I will upload them (assuming you want them :mrgreen: )
The "chip" is still listed as in production - http://www.maxim-ic.com/datasheet/index.mvp/id/2638
I never did make the time to get one and have a play though :(

Sean, no doubt I do have the info somewhere, but which Dallas RTC chip do you have? (as there are a number of different ones...)
:arrow: Edit: is it a DS1215 or a DS1315?

Mark

PS as I dig through my partly (dis)organised files I may well edit this post with more info :mrgreen:
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Postby ralcool » Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:55 am

Actually Mark- that is exactly what I/We need.!!!

I'm using the very same Dallas DS1216E- since its so easy to fit- and it just needs software.

ebay.. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SmartWatch-R ... 3a4fd00035

I'm reading the areal36 document now- it looks promising. And even 'smarter' than the Supermon bootstrap.

Also the Dallas chip comes in a 32pin version we could use too if again the software could read into the Exxxxx range for 1.6x/2.06 ROMs for STEs.
Edit, at the bottom it says this version 3.6 can.. woot.

Found it here after some googling.. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/derryck123/html/misc.htm

areal37.zip


Now version3.7.. Y2K ok!! apparently.

:arrow: Edit...
I've tried the software just now- my Dallas module is detected (connected to the Cartridge port address ROM4/FA0000 range at the moment), and the time/date reads off perfectly.

Thanks mate. Problem solved. :D $25 bucks for a module and this software... RTC for anyone- no soldering required (unless you're really unlucky)

ST :cheers:

PS, This post will be on the shortcut list on page one.. Full credit to 1024Mak for the headsup & Bill Penner for the Freeware code.
16. Fit an easy Dallas RTC to your ST- support software found & Y2k ready.

:arrow: Edit.. The Dallas chip used is the DS1216E.. still in production, and available from obvious sources.
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Last edited by ralcool on Sun Jan 15, 2012 1:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Postby DarkLord » Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:00 am

Don't ya just love it when a plan comes together? :)
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Postby ralcool » Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:17 am

And the difficult part of writing the software has been done by someone who knows what they're doing.

Solid gold man. :D .. we often see talk on this forum about great ideas/mods or coding 'lost' to time.

Another idea saved.

ST. :cheers:
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Postby DarkLord » Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:12 am

BTW, I had a few minutes before work this evening, so I fired up the STacy and tried RAMTOS7 and 7B
from the Ultrasatan. Didn't make any difference.

I can run SELTOS from the desktop and it will find a TOS img and load it. Just nothing from the AUTO
folder will load using RAMTOS7 or 7B. Exact same problem I posted in the other thread from months
and months ago.

I have been in contact with PPera - he seems to think its the STacy's strange TOS 1.04 version doing
it. He also doesn't seem to think it would be hard to fix so hopefully he'll come up with something. I
sent him the TOS dump I had done.
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Postby spiny » Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:17 am

ralcool wrote:
PS, This post will be on the shortcut list on page one.. Full credit to 1024Mak for the headsup & Bill Penner for the Freeware code.
16. Fit an easy Dallas RTC to your ST- support software found & Y2k ready.


nice one you guys :D

i don't know why, but having a clock on my ST has always facinated me, even now :) I love it that my USatan tells the right time, gonna have a read of the docs up there and see if i'm brave enough to make one :)

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Re: Modified ST hassles

Postby ralcool » Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:37 am

DarkLord wrote:BTW, I had a few minutes before work this evening, so I fired up the STacy and tried RAMTOS7 and 7B
from the Ultrasatan. Didn't make any difference.

I can run SELTOS from the desktop and it will find a TOS img and load it. Just nothing from the AUTO
folder will load using RAMTOS7 or 7B. Exact same problem I posted in the other thread from months
and months ago.

I have been in contact with PPera - he seems to think its the STacy's strange TOS 1.04 version doing
it. He also doesn't seem to think it would be hard to fix so hopefully he'll come up with something. I
sent him the TOS dump I had done.


SelTOS will run from the auto folder too.
4160STFM, (Blitter, 4Mb RAM 72pin, 16Mhz OC, IDE, HD FDD, Quad TOS, LaScan, DS1216E Clock, AT-Speed C16, Tom Kirk PS2 mouse, MegaST Keyboard)
What Intel giveth, Microsoft taketh away
Beer is proof that God loves us, and wants us to be happy
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Re: Modified ST hassles

Postby ralcool » Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:38 am

spiny wrote:
ralcool wrote:
PS, This post will be on the shortcut list on page one.. Full credit to 1024Mak for the headsup & Bill Penner for the Freeware code.
16. Fit an easy Dallas RTC to your ST- support software found & Y2k ready.


nice one you guys :D

i don't know why, but having a clock on my ST has always facinated me, even now :) I love it that my USatan tells the right time, gonna have a read of the docs up there and see if i'm brave enough to make one :)


Nothing to really make Phil. Grab a DS1216E, whack it under any 28pin TOS 1.xx chip. Run the software. Awesome.
This is the kind of solution we need. Super Simple.

(Now if we could patch TOS to read it permanently-without a 'driver', (Reflecting on how it would be nice to have a TOS/Atari HW compatible original RTC...... That would be so cool- a one time, disk based clock setting program is understandable though for this solution.....just like the MegaST did.)

ST. :cheers:
4160STFM, (Blitter, 4Mb RAM 72pin, 16Mhz OC, IDE, HD FDD, Quad TOS, LaScan, DS1216E Clock, AT-Speed C16, Tom Kirk PS2 mouse, MegaST Keyboard)
What Intel giveth, Microsoft taketh away
Beer is proof that God loves us, and wants us to be happy
Don't let post count or join date fool you as to who is a newbie, and who knows what's what


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