Atari st series computers conversion PC

Troubles with your machine? Just want to speak about the latest improvements? This is the place!

Moderators: Mug UK, Zorro 2, Greenious, spiny, Moderator Team

User avatar
wongck
Ultimate Atarian
Ultimate Atarian
Posts: 12789
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 2:09 pm
Location: Far East
Contact:

Re: Atari st series computers conversion PC

Postby wongck » Thu Oct 07, 2010 11:47 am

AxelG wrote:I just came along this whole Atari PC stuff. And I'd really love converting my own 1024. 8)

Yeap sure makes ppl wants to have one.
My Stuff: FB/Falcon CT63 CTPCI ATI RTL8139 USB 512MB 30GB HDD CF HxC_SD/ TT030 68882 4+32MB 520MB Nova/ 520STFM 4MB Tos206 SCSI
Shared SCSI Bus:ScsiLink ethernet, 9GB HDD,SD-reader @ http://phsw.atari.org
My Atari stuff for sale - click here for list

BeardSwitcher
Atari User
Atari User
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:32 am

Re: Atari st series computers conversion PC

Postby BeardSwitcher » Thu Oct 07, 2010 12:37 pm

Hi all.
I have now all parts i need to create one of these myself.

Mini-itx motherboard (1,3Ghz fanless)
Sata 60GB HD 2,5"
Some RAM.
A scavanged Powersource from a DELL stationary (quite thin thing, made fanless by removing the fan and reducing the size of the board)
Running ubuntu on it will be quite ok i think...

The thing i do not have, is easy clear instructions of how the atari KB works so i can create an PS2 adapter using a microcontroller (wich i have)
( I have found how the PS2 interface works, it should'nt be impossible to mimic. )

Anyone fancy sharing some information of how to manufacture a Atari ST Keyboard -> PS2 adapter?
(oooor maybe sell me a working adapter for a cheap price)

I will either put his PC inside a Atari 520 ST or in a spare C64 Breadbox case ... I can not decide at the moment... :?:

BR Emil

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Atari 520STfm, 2* Atari 1040STfm, 2* Atari 2MB STE, Atari Mega 4, SatanDisk, Atari Megafile 40, Atari Megafile 60 + a bunch of 12" Monocrome Atari Monitors and a Atari PC Clone.

AxelG
Atari maniac
Atari maniac
Posts: 85
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:17 pm
Location: Munich

Re: Atari st series computers conversion PC

Postby AxelG » Thu Oct 07, 2010 12:42 pm

Hi,

I (more or less) figured so. :)
Our turkish friends did so, right?

However, I seek for a *complete and working* PCB / Board / controller as a ST replacement. :coffe:
Any help would be greatly appriciated ;)

USB (as Robson did?) would be perfect.
PS/2 would also be more than ok, but slightly limit the choice of PC Hardware, right?

Thanks in Advance, :cheers:
AxelG
Is there anything you can't do with two Atari ST PCs?

joska
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 4424
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:55 pm
Location: Florø, Norway
Contact:

Re: Atari st series computers conversion PC

Postby joska » Thu Oct 07, 2010 1:05 pm

BeardSwitcher wrote:Anyone fancy sharing some information of how to manufacture a Atari ST Keyboard -> PS2 adapter?
(oooor maybe sell me a working adapter for a cheap price)


I can help you with this. Not with a PIC though, I'm not familiar with these. I have made a ST->PS/2 adapter using an Atmel AVR168 microcontroller using the Arduino development system. PM me, and I'll send you the sources.
Jo Even

VanillaMiNT - Firebee - Falcon060 - Milan060 - Falcon040 - MIST - Mega ST - STM - STE - Amiga 600 - Sharp MZ700 - MSX - Amstrad CPC - C64

AxelG
Atari maniac
Atari maniac
Posts: 85
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:17 pm
Location: Munich

Re: Atari st series computers conversion PC

Postby AxelG » Fri Oct 08, 2010 10:48 am

Would it be possible to receive an entire, working (ST) PCM?
:wink:

Kindest Regards,
AxelG
Is there anything you can't do with two Atari ST PCs?

BeardSwitcher
Atari User
Atari User
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:32 am

Re: Atari st series computers conversion PC

Postby BeardSwitcher » Fri Oct 08, 2010 2:25 pm

joska wrote:
BeardSwitcher wrote:Anyone fancy sharing some information of how to manufacture a Atari ST Keyboard -> PS2 adapter?
(oooor maybe sell me a working adapter for a cheap price)


I can help you with this. Not with a PIC though, I'm not familiar with these. I have made a ST->PS/2 adapter using an Atmel AVR168 microcontroller using the Arduino development system. PM me, and I'll send you the sources.


PM...

Anyway... some quick measurements showed that it will be a very tight fit in the box. I probably have to cut out and drop the bottom of the whole case ~1cm to get everything to fit properly.
The memory & heatsink on the whole thing is just a liiiiittle bit to high... But first thing first... PS2 adapter... the missing link...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Atari 520STfm, 2* Atari 1040STfm, 2* Atari 2MB STE, Atari Mega 4, SatanDisk, Atari Megafile 40, Atari Megafile 60 + a bunch of 12" Monocrome Atari Monitors and a Atari PC Clone.

User avatar
Robson
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 809
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 7:03 am
Location: London

Re: Atari st series computers conversion PC

Postby Robson » Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:34 pm

Hi Guys,

It is not a secret I was just not hanging around, sorry.

I used this panel for my project: http://www.xkeys.com/custom/xkmatrix.php

Wired the Atari rows and columns to the input and once you have it connected you need to create your own layout (it has its own software). Basically to tell the panel that for example row 1, column 1 is an "A" so it will generate the appropriate code for your PC. I didn't have the matrix of the ST keyboard so spent some time to "decode".

As said on the webpage this usb solution won't work until the system is up but as far as I know this panel is compatible with wide range of op. systems.

Have fun.
------------------------------------------------
http://tercsirobi.byethost14.com
------------------------------------------------

AxelG
Atari maniac
Atari maniac
Posts: 85
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:17 pm
Location: Munich

Re: Atari st series computers conversion PC

Postby AxelG » Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:57 am

Hi Robson,

thanks so much for the info. I'd think it's the best possible solution. :D

Do you have any further info for anyone following your foot steps in the ST keyboard sand?
I'd be interested in any wiring pix or diagrams, in any matrix (ST Keycode - > PC USB), especially.

Did you simply attach the XKeys Input to the ST rows/headers? Or did you first have to seperate them from the rest of the original PCB?

Thanks *so* much for the invaluable help you already provided, :cheers:
AxelG
Last edited by AxelG on Sun Oct 10, 2010 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Is there anything you can't do with two Atari ST PCs?

joska
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 4424
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:55 pm
Location: Florø, Norway
Contact:

Re: Atari st series computers conversion PC

Postby joska » Sun Oct 10, 2010 12:21 pm

AxelG wrote:Hi Robson,

thanks so much for the info. I'd think it's the best possible solution. :D


To be honest, this sounds like a very complex (and expensive) solution when you can get away with connecting a microcontroller to the ST keyboard serial port.
Jo Even

VanillaMiNT - Firebee - Falcon060 - Milan060 - Falcon040 - MIST - Mega ST - STM - STE - Amiga 600 - Sharp MZ700 - MSX - Amstrad CPC - C64

AxelG
Atari maniac
Atari maniac
Posts: 85
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:17 pm
Location: Munich

Re: Atari st series computers conversion PC

Postby AxelG » Sun Oct 10, 2010 1:39 pm

Hi,

this might really be true. :wink:

But if you simply don't have micro controller experience, if you simply don't have time to study the ST board's protocol, if you don't have the tools and time to build a replacement ST PCB?
(Btw.: Our turkish friends would like to have 250Euros for their product.)

So, that in mind, I'd think it's really a valid solution.
You don't have to (directly) handle a micro controller. You can freely program this Board.
It's got USB functionality. (I'll be using an Atom netbook for the conversion, no PS/2 port.)

Any better suggestion? I'd be glad to hear! :idea: 8)

Thanks,
AxelG
Is there anything you can't do with two Atari ST PCs?

User avatar
Robson
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 809
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 7:03 am
Location: London

Re: Atari st series computers conversion PC

Postby Robson » Sun Oct 10, 2010 3:31 pm

Hi,

I am not saying this is the best solution but I didn't want to learn programming a microcontroller just for this project. Also don't have the tools to create a rewired board for a PC keyboard keyboard controller. So both of these would have been more expensive for me.

You can easily find out where the colums and rows are connected to...they go to the ST's keyboard chip. I use a socket in place of the keyboard chip to wire everything from there. See picture. It still left me enough room inside the case. Rows are 13-20 pins, columns are 22-36. As far as I remember I had to remove some of the other components (or cut wires on the board) to get rid of any loops in the matrix ( realized when pressing a key didn't do anything).
My wiring diagramm is on paper and hungarian :) so that's not a help but it is really just about colour coding and pin numbers for the socket and the Xkey board. I have the keyboard matrix available in pdf.

However I think you don't even need to know how the keys are connected, columns and rows are enough to know, you can figure out the rest with a help of a temporary layout. Like creating a layout with numbers only, then pressing "A", checking the number and edit that cell's value in Microworks. Of course this will take some time and of course I have the layout for my english keyboard.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
------------------------------------------------
http://tercsirobi.byethost14.com
------------------------------------------------

AxelG
Atari maniac
Atari maniac
Posts: 85
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:17 pm
Location: Munich

Re: Atari st series computers conversion PC

Postby AxelG » Sun Oct 10, 2010 5:02 pm

Hi Robson,

I do really think you came up with a lot of neat ideas! :) Sure, using a micro controller might be much more efficiant, if you've got material, time and money to spend on the dev kit in te first place. Back in the day i thought it'd be cool to program an e.g. Atmel. Once you've learned it, you can really do almost anything with them.
However, the last PCB I build was an analog control unit for a MagLev similar thesis, back in the 80's. So my beeing accoustomed with micro controllers never really caught on. :coffe:

Pragmatically seen, I seem to have a dedicated problem and probalbly need a dedicated solution.
Your's will cost me some 60 Euros, require me to find those loops (I dont link this one). But if I make any mistake, I'll learn and blow up an ST keyboard - at most.
I'll survive that ;)

Ok Robson, anything you might be able to provide, will be of help to me, hungarian or not ;) Even the image above and those pin numbers helped.
My email: axel_groll (at) web dot de

Regarding any micro contrller based proposal. I'm still open for anything. But it'd have be an complete solution, since I can't program it or solder SMDs onto a PCB. Simple soldering is no prob, tho ;)


Thanks to everyone, :cheers:
AxelG
Is there anything you can't do with two Atari ST PCs?

joska
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 4424
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:55 pm
Location: Florø, Norway
Contact:

Re: Atari st series computers conversion PC

Postby joska » Sun Oct 10, 2010 5:59 pm

AxelG wrote:I do really think you came up with a lot of neat ideas! :) Sure, using a micro controller might be much more efficiant, if you've got material, time and money to spend on the dev kit in te first place. Back in the day i thought it'd be cool to program an e.g. Atmel. Once you've learned it, you can really do almost anything with them.
However, the last PCB I build was an analog control unit for a MagLev similar thesis, back in the 80's. So my beeing accoustomed with micro controllers never really caught on. :coffe:


Take a look at the Ardunio. It costs next to nothing, the tools are free and you only need a USB cable to program it. Buy an Ardunio Nano or clone (around €20) and get the software from me. You don't need to create any PCB and there is no need to hack the keyboard. You only need to connect a PS/2 cable (or socket) to the Arduino, and run four wires to the ST keyboard connector.

However, my code only supports PS/2 so if USB is important (and PS/2 over USB doesn't work with your PC) you can't use it.
Jo Even

VanillaMiNT - Firebee - Falcon060 - Milan060 - Falcon040 - MIST - Mega ST - STM - STE - Amiga 600 - Sharp MZ700 - MSX - Amstrad CPC - C64

BeardSwitcher
Atari User
Atari User
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:32 am

Re: Atari st series computers conversion PC

Postby BeardSwitcher » Sun Oct 10, 2010 6:39 pm

I had a simple plan to pick up the serial data from the ST keyboard and translate it to standard PS2/USB PC keyboard.
I currenly miss schematics for the internal connections within the atari.

Arduino seems to be a good place to start to solve this...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Atari 520STfm, 2* Atari 1040STfm, 2* Atari 2MB STE, Atari Mega 4, SatanDisk, Atari Megafile 40, Atari Megafile 60 + a bunch of 12" Monocrome Atari Monitors and a Atari PC Clone.

AxelG
Atari maniac
Atari maniac
Posts: 85
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:17 pm
Location: Munich

Re: Atari st series computers conversion PC

Postby AxelG » Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:02 pm

Hi,

the Ardunio Nano sure -also- looks interresting. I will (at least) try to find out wheter or not my netbook supports PS/2 over USB. I just have to find one one of those tiny adapters ;)

Thanks for the input and for your offer. :!:

:wink:

AxelG
Is there anything you can't do with two Atari ST PCs?

BeardSwitcher
Atari User
Atari User
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:32 am

Re: Atari st series computers conversion PC

Postby BeardSwitcher » Mon Oct 11, 2010 11:44 am

*** Ordered a Arduino Duemilanove

Fun to pick up the old microcontroller / robotics hobby to solve a real problem :D
Now i have almost all parts i need... :D ( just need some time ... :roll: )

I will cut down the size of the powersource and probably cut out the bottom of the whole case and drop it 0,5 - 1cm so that everything fits...
I am probably forced to put a fan in somewhere... That is a later problem, i have some space left in bottom left corner.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Atari 520STfm, 2* Atari 1040STfm, 2* Atari 2MB STE, Atari Mega 4, SatanDisk, Atari Megafile 40, Atari Megafile 60 + a bunch of 12" Monocrome Atari Monitors and a Atari PC Clone.

User avatar
Robson
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 809
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2006 7:03 am
Location: London

Re: Atari st series computers conversion PC

Postby Robson » Mon Oct 11, 2010 12:34 pm

Yes it seems that you need to cut it down (get rid of all the metal if you don't need), however I would also consider swapping the motherboard and the PSU, not to lead all the power cables across the board for the connector. It is hard to see from the picture but might work better for you.
Waiting for the finished pictures. Good luck.
------------------------------------------------
http://tercsirobi.byethost14.com
------------------------------------------------

User avatar
spiny
Disk Imager Supreme
Disk Imager Supreme
Posts: 2635
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2003 11:53 pm
Location: just outside bristol
Contact:

Re: Atari st series computers conversion PC

Postby spiny » Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:40 pm

joska wrote:
AxelG wrote:I do really think you came up with a lot of neat ideas! :) Sure, using a micro controller might be much more efficiant, if you've got material, time and money to spend on the dev kit in te first place. Back in the day i thought it'd be cool to program an e.g. Atmel. Once you've learned it, you can really do almost anything with them.
However, the last PCB I build was an analog control unit for a MagLev similar thesis, back in the 80's. So my beeing accoustomed with micro controllers never really caught on. :coffe:


Take a look at the Ardunio. It costs next to nothing, the tools are free and you only need a USB cable to program it. Buy an Ardunio Nano or clone (around €20) and get the software from me. You don't need to create any PCB and there is no need to hack the keyboard. You only need to connect a PS/2 cable (or socket) to the Arduino, and run four wires to the ST keyboard connector.

However, my code only supports PS/2 so if USB is important (and PS/2 over USB doesn't work with your PC) you can't use it.



Hi,

I would like to make up an atari PS/2 keyboard, i'm about to buy a 'nano' and I'm wondering if you can give me a copy ofd the software, and also info on which wires to connect to where, as on that part i'm a bit clueless :)

cheers, Phil.

AxelG
Atari maniac
Atari maniac
Posts: 85
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:17 pm
Location: Munich

Re: Atari st series computers conversion PC

Postby AxelG » Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:10 pm

Me2 ;)

...So I surfed a bit around in german elctronics shops.

The Arduino Nano is about 40...45 Euros. It's (apparently) the only one with direct Mini-USB connectivity.
And Power over USB.

The Arduino Mini seems to have no direct USB Connector, needs a seperate power Source, but costs 25...27 Euros.
A seperate Arduino USB to Serial Adapter is 15 Euros plus.

So -afaik- this would cost 40 Euro plus? ...

AxelG
Is there anything you can't do with two Atari ST PCs?

joska
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 4424
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:55 pm
Location: Florø, Norway
Contact:

Re: Atari st series computers conversion PC

Postby joska » Mon Oct 11, 2010 5:45 pm

spiny wrote:I would like to make up an atari PS/2 keyboard, i'm about to buy a 'nano' and I'm wondering if you can give me a copy ofd the software, and also info on which wires to connect to where, as on that part i'm a bit clueless :)


I've attached the code (or "sketch" as it's called in Arduino-world) for the ST->PS/2 adapter. It doesn't handle mouse or joystick yet, but I can easily add a few lines of code to convert joystick movements to keyboard actions if needed.

The serial lines of the ST-keyboard is connected to the serial port on the Ardiuno (pin 0 and 1). The PS/2 clock and data lines can be connected to any other pin on the Ardunio, the code code is currently set up to use pin 2 and 3. The Arduino draws power from the PS/2 port, so does the ST keyboard. Contact me when it gets serious, and I'll come up with the schematics.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Jo Even

VanillaMiNT - Firebee - Falcon060 - Milan060 - Falcon040 - MIST - Mega ST - STM - STE - Amiga 600 - Sharp MZ700 - MSX - Amstrad CPC - C64

joska
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 4424
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:55 pm
Location: Florø, Norway
Contact:

Re: Atari st series computers conversion PC

Postby joska » Mon Oct 11, 2010 5:51 pm

AxelG wrote:So -afaik- this would cost 40 Euro plus? ...


This was the first hit on "Arduino nano" on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/New-Arduino-Nano- ... 20b42074ae

A bit cheaper than €40. If you shop around you can get them even cheaper. Also, if you can afford the space, a normal Arduino can be found for half the price of a Nano.
Jo Even

VanillaMiNT - Firebee - Falcon060 - Milan060 - Falcon040 - MIST - Mega ST - STM - STE - Amiga 600 - Sharp MZ700 - MSX - Amstrad CPC - C64

AxelG
Atari maniac
Atari maniac
Posts: 85
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:17 pm
Location: Munich

Re: Atari st series computers conversion PC

Postby AxelG » Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:31 pm

Done and paid. THX.

My 5 year old IBM PS/2 keyboard was recognized by the netbook, the older ones not. I think the IBM is PS/2 over USB compatible, the netbook also. Let's hope I'm right ;)

@Robson: I'm still very much interrested in any material you might be able to provide. Thanks.
EDIT: THANKS!!!
Is there anything you can't do with two Atari ST PCs?

BeardSwitcher
Atari User
Atari User
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:32 am

Re: Atari st series computers conversion PC

Postby BeardSwitcher » Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:03 am

Maybe i should consider getting another case?
The Atari ST case is a bit too small. A Atari STFM case (inbuilt discdrive) should have plenty of space...
This ST case was from a Atari that is totally whacked and not salvagable, i do not want to gutter a working STFM from my collection for this project...

I do not want to change the mini-ITX motherboard, it was a bargain and i have a tight budget for this project.
Sofar are the costs:
A used working mini-ITX 400Sek ( €40 )
Arduino microcontroller 250Sek ( €25 )
Memory+HD+Powersource ( No cost, salvaged from old PCs )
OS Ubuntu ( Free )

But first thing first:
1. First solve the technical problems and create a working HW.
2. Find a suitable case to put it in...

*burning the midnight oil' :coffe:
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Atari 520STfm, 2* Atari 1040STfm, 2* Atari 2MB STE, Atari Mega 4, SatanDisk, Atari Megafile 40, Atari Megafile 60 + a bunch of 12" Monocrome Atari Monitors and a Atari PC Clone.

User avatar
spiny
Disk Imager Supreme
Disk Imager Supreme
Posts: 2635
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2003 11:53 pm
Location: just outside bristol
Contact:

Re: Atari st series computers conversion PC

Postby spiny » Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:28 am

joska wrote:
spiny wrote:I would like to make up an atari PS/2 keyboard, i'm about to buy a 'nano' and I'm wondering if you can give me a copy ofd the software, and also info on which wires to connect to where, as on that part i'm a bit clueless :)


I've attached the code (or "sketch" as it's called in Arduino-world) for the ST->PS/2 adapter. It doesn't handle mouse or joystick yet, but I can easily add a few lines of code to convert joystick movements to keyboard actions if needed.

The serial lines of the ST-keyboard is connected to the serial port on the Ardiuno (pin 0 and 1). The PS/2 clock and data lines can be connected to any other pin on the Ardunio, the code code is currently set up to use pin 2 and 3. The Arduino draws power from the PS/2 port, so does the ST keyboard. Contact me when it gets serious, and I'll come up with the schematics.



cheers :D I will be back once I have the hardware ready :)

AxelG
Atari maniac
Atari maniac
Posts: 85
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:17 pm
Location: Munich

Re: Atari st series computers conversion PC

Postby AxelG » Tue Oct 12, 2010 11:03 am

Hi,

Mini ITX really is fine and good, but to shift or modify the external appearance of the classic ST case is a nogo - at least for me. :wink:
It's not really so expensive to get a 1040 STF on Ebay. 10 Euros max I'd say. :angel:

I'll use an old & slightly defect Atom Netbook, so I might be on the smaller side hardware wise. No extra fan, either.
Just have to figure out how to run it on the original STF power source.

We'll see.
Last edited by AxelG on Tue Oct 12, 2010 2:23 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Is there anything you can't do with two Atari ST PCs?


Social Media

     

Return to “Hardware”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests