ST to VGA - Success :)

Troubles with your machine? Just want to speak about the latest improvements? This is the place!

Moderators: Mug UK, Zorro 2, Greenious, spiny, Moderator Team

KLund1
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 357
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 5:09 pm

Re: ST to VGA - Success :)

Postby KLund1 » Wed Jan 13, 2010 6:58 am

Good thread!
If I'm reading this right (doubtful) This SuperColor HD unit only works from the ST composite output, not the Monitor output. Though it could if there was an Atari 15pin male to 9 pin male connector with the right pinouts?
UPDATED: Falcon 030(FX-1)(CF int & removable SD), MSTE 4+PS3000 4160STE 2.06+HDFD STacy4-internal-USD 1040STFM+I.B.Driver-5.25"FDD 1040STF 1040ST 520ST-AdSpeed 400-48k 800+810x2+820+822+825+830+835+850, 800XL+IndusGT 600XL 130XE+XF551x2 Portfolio 1200XL APE(Warp+32in1 OS SuperVideo 2.1 256k RAMBO)+1050x2 USD'd+SIO2PC, PC1+PCH204+PCM124+PCF554x2

User avatar
DrCoolZic
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 2144
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:03 pm
Location: France
Contact:

Re: ST to VGA - Success :)

Postby DrCoolZic » Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:29 am

KLund1 wrote:Good thread!
If I'm reading this right (doubtful) This SuperColor HD unit only works from the ST composite output, not the Monitor output. Though it could if there was an Atari 15pin male to 9 pin male connector with the right pinouts?
I am not 100% sure but from what I have read on this thread (not specified in the Ad) you need an Atari DIN13 male to a DB15 Female?
I am almost positive about the db15 but not sure about the gender? Can someone that have received the unit confirmed.
Did anybody tried connection using such a cable DIN13 <-> DB15) in color and MONOCHROME ?

Shredder11
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 2434
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:23 pm
Location: West Yorkshire, United Kingdom (England)
Contact:

Re: ST to VGA - Success :)

Postby Shredder11 » Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:09 am

I'm using the ST monitor output from the 13-pin DIN socket. I am also using a monitor switching box from the 13-pin DIN socket that sends two cables; a VGA mono and a SCART. The VGA mono goes straight into the Supera Color HD VGA input. The SCART goes into a small adapter with a S-Video lead connected and that goes into the Supera's front S-Video input socket via the supplied adapter, which converts the 4-pin DIN to a 9-pin DIN. If this is still unclear I will post another photo with everything in shot.

So I have got all the resolutions working from one monitor and looking great. I have not posted a photo of the Hi-Res mono mode yet but it looks fine on my monitors to me.

User avatar
matt
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 311
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:11 pm
Location: Cornwall, UK
Contact:

Re: ST to VGA - Success :)

Postby matt » Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:47 am

A list of all the extra bits you've bought to achieve it would be good, too.
Atari 1040STE 4MB, TOS 2.06 patched, C-LAB Notator SL 3.21, Cubeat 2, EIZO FlexScan L565 17", Supera Color HD video converter

User avatar
DrCoolZic
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 2144
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:03 pm
Location: France
Contact:

Re: ST to VGA - Success :)

Postby DrCoolZic » Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:06 pm

Shredder11 wrote:I'm using the ST monitor output from the 13-pin DIN socket. I am also using a monitor switching box from the 13-pin DIN socket that sends two cables; a VGA mono and a SCART. The VGA mono goes straight into the Supera Color HD VGA input. The SCART goes into a small adapter with a S-Video lead connected and that goes into the Supera's front S-Video input socket via the supplied adapter, which converts the 4-pin DIN to a 9-pin DIN. If this is still unclear I will post another photo with everything in shot.

So I have got all the resolutions working from one monitor and looking great. I have not posted a photo of the Hi-Res mono mode yet but it looks fine on my monitors to me.

I am trying to understand what is your exact setup :?:

Switching box: I guess you are talking about something like this:
atari-switcher.JPG

That is with two 13DIN F outputs?

Then you have two cables going out of he switching box:
one 13DIN is for VGA. From what you say it goes to the VGA in (loacated close to the 15DB VGA out on back of unit?) ? Seems like they provide one cable for the VGA 8 pin minidin ? So you have a 13DIN to 15BD plus a 15DB to 8 MINIDIN (provided) ?
The second cable is a scart cable. So it goes from switch box 13DIN color out to scart connector then scart connector is connected to SCART adapter that have s-video connector. From here you connect to the small black cable (to Aux video - with strange 9pins connector - in front of unit) with four leads. one of them (the large black one?) seems to accept S-Video input signal and others three (green red blue) are for composite signals: one for video, one for audio, one for Synch? or RGB? or YPbPr?

Is this correct description of your setup?
How do you transmit audio in color and in mono ? Does your switching box has an audio (cinch or jack) output ?
Did you try to connect the 13DIN color output from switching box using the VGA cable (that is using the same VGA cable for color and mono)? and if yes does it work fine in color?
What is the gender of the DB15 connector that have the VGA 8 MiniDIN on the other end (provided cable)?

I just ordered one unit today :wink: and I am trying to get ready.
As I mentioned I have done a switching box that output either the 3 rgb or the monochrome signals to the 3 rgb of a 15BD output connector (see page 5 of this thread) and I am trying to figure out if this is going to work. Note that it works fine on an oooold multisynch monitor tha can handle the 15.75Kh for color or 35.7KHz in mono
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Shredder11
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 2434
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:23 pm
Location: West Yorkshire, United Kingdom (England)
Contact:

Re: ST to VGA - Success :)

Postby Shredder11 » Wed Jan 13, 2010 2:59 pm

Okay I attempted to take some photos but due to the tangle of long leads it was difficult!

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

User avatar
DrCoolZic
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 2144
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:03 pm
Location: France
Contact:

Re: ST to VGA - Success :)

Postby DrCoolZic » Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:39 pm

ok got you. :mrgreen: almost
only one thing not clear: the vga cable must leave on left of pictures goes under the table on comme back on rear of table to DB15 is that right :wink:

Looks like no audio connected ? although looks like your switchbox has audio output
What is the gender of DB15 connector they provide on "vga" cable? (where you plug your black DB15)
Did you try color on the VGA (not the s-video). Just change the DIN13 from one output to the other. And by the way did you try mono on s-video? (in other can we use what we want or is there a prefered entry for color and mono?)

Many thanks

EDIT: Did not see but looks like you have a DB15 adapter between the 2 connectors and looks like a F-F ?

Shredder11
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 2434
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:23 pm
Location: West Yorkshire, United Kingdom (England)
Contact:

Re: ST to VGA - Success :)

Postby Shredder11 » Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:43 pm

DrCoolZic wrote:ok got you. :mrgreen: almost
only one thing not clear: the vga cable must leave on left of pictures goes under the table on comme back on rear of table to DB15 is that right :wink:


Yes it comes from the STs monitor output via the switchbox and goes straight into the Supera VGA DB15 input via a special adapter cable supplied.

Looks like no audio connected ? although looks like your switchbox has audio output


Wrong. Audio comes via the SCART cable from the STs monitor output. This ends up going into the Supera and then output via the 3.5mm audio output on the front. However I normally use my STEs stereo phono outputs for better quality.

What is the gender of DB15 connector they provide on "vga" cable? (where you plug your black DB15)
Did you try color on the VGA (not the s-video). Just change the DIN13 from one output to the other. And by the way did you try mono on s-video? (in other can we use what we want or is there a prefered entry for color and mono?)

Many thanks

EDIT: Did not see but looks like you have a DB15 adapter between the 2 connectors and looks like a F-F ?


Yes there is a small F-F adapter. Colour was only done via the ST monitor out-->SCART cable-->SCART adapter plug-->S-Video cable-->4-pin to 9-pin adapter cable-->Supera 9-pin S-Video input on the front. As far as I know colour output is not possible via VGA methods. I have no need to try mono via S-Video when I have a direct VGA connection for maximum quality, but to answer you I have not done it the S-Video way.

User avatar
DrCoolZic
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 2144
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:03 pm
Location: France
Contact:

Re: ST to VGA - Success :)

Postby DrCoolZic » Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:32 pm

Shredder11 wrote:Wrong. Audio comes via the SCART cable from the STs monitor output. This ends up going into the Supera and then output via the 3.5mm audio output on the front. However I normally use my STEs stereo phono outputs for better quality.
I do not see any cable from the SCART adapter and as far as I know S-Video does not carry sound? may be not plugged during the photo?

As far as I know colour output is not possible via VGA methods.
I though that was the all purpose of this box?

User avatar
matt
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 311
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:11 pm
Location: Cornwall, UK
Contact:

Re: ST to VGA - Success :)

Postby matt » Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:33 pm

Shredder11 wrote:Image

Thanks for the photos. Some questions:

1. Am I right in thinking I can get away without the SVHS extension cable?

2. Any idea where I can get a monitor switch box? :)

I have an old box like the one on page 5 that can switch between colour and mono but the signal is really shaky. So I'd rather use my dedicated (and new!) SCART and VGA cables in a switch box.

Cheers,
matt
Atari 1040STE 4MB, TOS 2.06 patched, C-LAB Notator SL 3.21, Cubeat 2, EIZO FlexScan L565 17", Supera Color HD video converter

User avatar
DrCoolZic
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 2144
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:03 pm
Location: France
Contact:

Re: ST to VGA - Success :)

Postby DrCoolZic » Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:44 pm

matt wrote:1. Am I right in thinking I can get away without the SVHS extension cable?
2. Any idea where I can get a monitor switch box? :)
I have an old box like the one on page 5 that can switch between colour and mono but the signal is really shaky. So I'd rather use my dedicated (and new!) SCART and VGA cables in a switch box.
Matt
I am actually trying to figure out a more simple solution and thats why I am asking all these questions.
My idea is the following atari DIN13 connected to a switch box input. My first idea was just to switch mono/color to the VGA but Shredder seems to think that the VGA input would not do the upscaling. If this is the case then we need two output: one with a DB15 that goes directly to VGA output connector and one that could go to s-video connector. However the atari to scart carry RGB and sync and the s-video uses luminance and chrominance and therefore this mean that the scart box must transform the signals. But if you look in wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCART you will see that scart pin 20 and pin 15 can be used to s-video ?!
Strange as pin 15 of scart is connected to pin 7 of atari din13 (red channel) and pin 20 of scart is connected to atari pin 2 (composite video). The strange part is pin 15 ???
But this can be working? in that case scart 20 goes to s-video 3 and scart 15 to s-video 4
http://pinouts.ru/VideoCables/svhs_scart_pinout.shtml
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-Video
http://www.algonet.se/~guld1/hardware/atari-scart.html (you do not really need the 150 ohms resistors!)

Shredder11
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 2434
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:23 pm
Location: West Yorkshire, United Kingdom (England)
Contact:

Re: ST to VGA - Success :)

Postby Shredder11 » Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:42 pm

Sorry, for audio from the SCART you need a phono to jack cable, or as I prefer to simply connect a phono M->M cable direct from my STE to the Supera.

If you mean VGA ouputting colour and mono being the actual Supera VGA 15-pin DSUB output to the monitor, well yes that is how it works. In short you feed it the STs colour and mono signals and the Supera combines both into one VGA output to your CRT or TFT LCD monitor, whichever you happen to use.

As for the SVHS extension cable as you call it (13-pin DIN to SCART cable), this is the best method for my STE as I do not wish to use the RF output. Maybe on your ST you can use a composite output I dunno, and if you can well you can do away with the SCART and S-Video stuff at the expense of decent quality.

I got my monitor switch box from Ebay for about £12 approx but I have seen similiar for cheaper.

As for everything I have used, I have tried to use the least amount of components and cables.

[list=][*]Supera Color HD
[*]Practical Solutions Monitor Master switchbox
[*]ST 13-pin to DB15 VGA mono cable
[*]DB15 F<->F coupler adapter
[*]DB15 to 9-pin DIN (supplied with Supera)
[*]ST 13-pin to SCART colour cable
[*]SCART adapter with SCART coupler and S-Video
[*]S-Video 4-pin M<->M cable
[*]S-Video to 9-pin cable (supplied with Supera)
[*]DB15 to DB15 VGA cable (supplied with Supera)
[*]Phono to Phono M<->M audio cable
[*]PSU (supplied with Supera)[/list]

User avatar
matt
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 311
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:11 pm
Location: Cornwall, UK
Contact:

Re: ST to VGA - Success :)

Postby matt » Thu Jan 14, 2010 12:09 am

Shredder11 wrote:[*]DB15 F<->F coupler adapter
[*]Phono to Phono M<->M audio cable

These are not shown, correct?

"SVHS extension cable" in your picture, connects Supera Color HD to SVHS on SCART adapter. I was wrong to assume this cable was not needed. Now I see it is M<->M SVHS cable.

Shredder11 wrote:I got my monitor switch box from Ebay for about £12 approx but I have seen similiar for cheaper.

Please let me know if you see another for sale :)

matt
Atari 1040STE 4MB, TOS 2.06 patched, C-LAB Notator SL 3.21, Cubeat 2, EIZO FlexScan L565 17", Supera Color HD video converter

Shredder11
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 2434
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:23 pm
Location: West Yorkshire, United Kingdom (England)
Contact:

Re: ST to VGA - Success :)

Postby Shredder11 » Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:29 am

The DB15 F<->F coupler adapter is in the photo connecting the black and beige VGA cables together near the monitor on the photo.

I now know that by SVHS you mean the S-Video 4-pin M<->M DIN cable (beige).

Yes the phono audio cable is not connected in the photo but I do use it normally.


Oh and my setup does not always look like a bomb has hit it. I had to pull everything out in an untidy fashion to take the photo! Also the other white box near the monitor is a Gamars V-Box which I used to use before I found the Supera Color HD box. The Gamars could not display colour on my TFT LCD 19" monitor, whereas the Supera does so and superbly well.

User avatar
matt
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 311
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:11 pm
Location: Cornwall, UK
Contact:

Re: ST to VGA - Success :)

Postby matt » Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:51 am

Quite looking forward to setting mine up. :)
Atari 1040STE 4MB, TOS 2.06 patched, C-LAB Notator SL 3.21, Cubeat 2, EIZO FlexScan L565 17", Supera Color HD video converter

User avatar
DrCoolZic
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 2144
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:03 pm
Location: France
Contact:

Re: ST to VGA - Success :)

Postby DrCoolZic » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:02 am

Well after all it looks like it is probably safier to use your configuration that does not requires too much components!
Aand may be experiment other configurations. As I want to keep my multisync solution I will need to find (or do) an Atari VGA cable. Does anybody knows where it is possible to find one already done as it is a pain to solder on the DIN13!
For the rest I will follow your link. What is the difference between the first SCART adapter you mentionned and the second one? They look about the same. Is there special features that you need?
Thanks it was very nice of you to move things around to take the pictures. It helped a lot.

Shredder11
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 2434
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:23 pm
Location: West Yorkshire, United Kingdom (England)
Contact:

Re: ST to VGA - Success :)

Postby Shredder11 » Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:31 am

Thanks DrCJ, glad I could be of some help.

Regarding the two SCART adapter solutions, I chose the second because it has the two original bits in one adapter. If you notice the first solution I looked at in this thread had a SCART adapter with S-Video socket and an adapter that is intended to join two SCART cables together. I wanted to change the gender of the SCART+S-Video adapter to Female so I could plug in my Atari 13-pin to SCART cable.

The second SCART solution is more integrated as it has both Male and Female SCART connections, along with S-Video. It is also around the same price or cheaper, so it made sense to get this instead.

Yes there does seem to be more components than I realised but they can be tidied away behind the monitor/desk. I'm just happy at the quality of the results and that it solved my problem with getting anything on a modern TFT LCD monitor. Originally I intended to buy a LCD TV but not many can display the ST mono mode, so I would have been back to the two screen solution.

User avatar
rocket-dog
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 779
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:13 pm
Location: Great Britain - The Kingdom of Mercia

Re: ST to VGA - Success :)

Postby rocket-dog » Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:03 pm

I think your list is missing something young Shredder.

Didn't you have to get another PSU to stop "strobing" because of UK voltages?

EDIT: Yes you said,

Mine is not flickery at all and I am using a UK PSU with 1.2A output that I bought from CPC.co.uk


Just saying because you have gone to such an effort to document your set up and it would be a shame to miss something.

Shredder11
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 2434
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:23 pm
Location: West Yorkshire, United Kingdom (England)
Contact:

Re: ST to VGA - Success :)

Postby Shredder11 » Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:42 pm

I only bought the PSU because the one supplied was a foreign type with two prongs. At this point I had no idea that the PSU may affect picture quality etc, but when someone in the thread stated they had flicker problems and asked what PSU I used, I then pointed them in the direction of where I got mine. I'm also a bit picky about PSUs now anyway as most manufacturers cut corners with those, later leading to overheating and eventual failure with many power hungry items.

User avatar
rocket-dog
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 779
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:13 pm
Location: Great Britain - The Kingdom of Mercia

Re: ST to VGA - Success :)

Postby rocket-dog » Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:32 pm

Shredder11 wrote:I only bought the PSU because the one supplied was a foreign type with two prongs. At this point I had no idea that the PSU may affect picture quality etc, but when someone in the thread stated they had flicker problems and asked what PSU I used, I then pointed them in the direction of where I got mine. I'm also a bit picky about PSUs now anyway as most manufacturers cut corners with those, later leading to overheating and eventual failure with many power hungry items.


The wiring here is a mess. So when I bought my big Samsung monitor last year I also bought a cheap UPS from Maplin to flatten out the supply a bit. Works a treat. Hopefully I will be ordering one of these soon and I will see how a go. If I have problems with flicker I will try the different PSU.

User avatar
DrCoolZic
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 2144
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:03 pm
Location: France
Contact:

Re: ST to VGA - Success :)

Postby DrCoolZic » Fri Jan 15, 2010 8:45 am

I am wandering what is the connectivity inside the scart to s-video? Any idea? Is it possible to open this adapter or is it molded?

User avatar
matt
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 311
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:11 pm
Location: Cornwall, UK
Contact:

Re: ST to VGA - Success :)

Postby matt » Fri Jan 15, 2010 9:12 am

Atari 1040STE 4MB, TOS 2.06 patched, C-LAB Notator SL 3.21, Cubeat 2, EIZO FlexScan L565 17", Supera Color HD video converter

User avatar
DrCoolZic
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 2144
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:03 pm
Location: France
Contact:

Re: ST to VGA - Success :)

Postby DrCoolZic » Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:27 am


I know this pinout (mentioned above) but I am skeptical about the chroma entry being only connected to Atari Red channel. I am not an expert in video signals but this looks strange?

User avatar
matt
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 311
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:11 pm
Location: Cornwall, UK
Contact:

Re: ST to VGA - Success :)

Postby matt » Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:03 pm

All the various pinouts I have seen say the same thing, so it must be right?
Atari 1040STE 4MB, TOS 2.06 patched, C-LAB Notator SL 3.21, Cubeat 2, EIZO FlexScan L565 17", Supera Color HD video converter

User avatar
DrCoolZic
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 2144
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:03 pm
Location: France
Contact:

Re: ST to VGA - Success :)

Postby DrCoolZic » Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:48 pm

matt wrote:All the various pinouts I have seen say the same thing, so it must be right?

Definitively. The only problem is to know if the Atari is providing the right signals.
I am looking at the different video standards ...
Beyond the "classic" RGB we also find YUV ...
The s-video uses Y/C = Lumi / Chroma. Lumi should be OK but chroma requires to encode the RBG component into one signal by using PAL or NTSC encode?
As Shredder can use s-video it looks like Atari must be performing the encode as I doubt that the scart adapter is doing anything other than connecting pins.
???


Social Media

     

Return to “Hardware”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests