IDE to CompactFlash or SD adapters

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IDE to CompactFlash or SD adapters

Postby Shredder11 » Mon Sep 15, 2008 4:48 pm

My question is......from experience which IDE to CompactFlash or SD adapters are the best for the ST(e), with regard to compatibility, features and performance? As I have mentioned a few times in my other threads, I have an IDEal IDE interface inside my 4160 STe and would like to swap the IBM 2.5" drive for a flash card. I would also really be chuffed to bits if I could slave a CDROM/writer but I will settle for having just the flash card. The ribbon cable inside my STe doesn't appear to have the Slave connector in the middle of the cable, so I presume I need to source one of those. I guess I will also need to get hold of the HDDRIVER software, but I am trying to spend as little as possible right now, so if anyone can assist me.... :angel: :wink:

So what combination of flash adapter and card works best? Are larger cards more problematic, i.e. above 1GB or 4Gb etc? I think I may have read on here somewhere that Sandisk Ultra II CF cards work well, and I can buy them from my local Costco.


Thanks :D

ppera

Re: IDE to CompactFlash or SD adapters

Postby ppera » Mon Sep 15, 2008 7:02 pm

IDE to CF adapters are passive ones. In fact just 2 connector on pcb, with connected proper lines. There is usually selector for Master/Slave and sometimes voltage setting (not much use of).
So, adapter is not relevant. I used 4 different brand, and all worked well.

Much more is relevant CF card and it's brand. For instance Kingston is not the best choice. Sandisk is certainly most compatible. I didn't hear about problems with any Sandisk on ST, Falcon IDE.

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Re: IDE to CompactFlash or SD adapters

Postby Shredder11 » Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:42 pm

Thanks for that ppera, that just leaves the following questions then:

(1) Which online source do you recommend (I'm in the UK)

(2) How do I go about connecting an IDE CDROM or writer as slave?

I currently have a 2.5" 720MB IDE drive with AHDI v6.06 and various software. What do I need to be careful of when wiping the drive and installing my own apps from scratch? How easy is it to backup all the critical files that the drive uses when booting up? Is it simply a case of making a bootup/rescue floppy?


Thanks :)

P.S. I have been using the Atari ST for about 20 years but I have never owned a hard drive for the ST, hence my lack of knowledge and experience with this kind of setup.

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Re: IDE to CompactFlash or SD adapters

Postby Shredder11 » Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:02 pm

Well I got lucky with a carefully worded Google search and found this...........

Image

http://www.dpieshop.com/kontron-cfcada1-ide-to-compact-flash-adapter-p-48.html?osCsid=minitne7lpesqj7j2m720vn6r3

http://www.diamondpoint.co.uk/manuals/storage/kontron/CFCAK115.pdf

http://www.dpie.com/storage/cfcada1.html


In theory it seems to be perfect in that I can attach my Atari STe IDEal interface to the master 44 pin header, along with a CDROM/writer to the 40 pin header and then install HDDRIVER v8.1 etc. Finally I can then try installing some CD software that will give me CDROM access and possibly CD writing capabilities.

ppera

Re: IDE to CompactFlash or SD adapters

Postby ppera » Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:59 am

Shredder11 wrote:Thanks for that ppera, that just leaves the following questions then:
(1) Which online source do you recommend (I'm in the UK)
(2) How do I go about connecting an IDE CDROM or writer as slave?
I currently have a 2.5" 720MB IDE drive with AHDI v6.06 and various software. What do I need to be careful of when wiping the drive and installing my own apps from scratch? How easy is it to backup all the critical files that the drive uses when booting up? Is it simply a case of making a bootup/rescue floppy?


1. I can't say any specific site. I visit mostly some technical sites. For instance cf assotiation org. But it is not for average costumer. OK, there is one: Google :D

2. You set jumper on CD drive as slave and on hard disk as master (elementary). In some cases there is special pos marked Master with Slave present - then set so on hard drive. After it you will need to reconfigure Hddriver so that it recognises config.
It is possible that you must not make new partitioning of hard disk. Just need to configure driver in Hddrutil and install on hard disk.
If you are forced (or just want to do) to start from scratch you have nothing of hard disk driver files to backup (they are not of use with new HW config). What maybe is worth of backup are files in AUTO and ACC-essories on partition C. It should fit on 1 floppy. Btw. only 1 file is used by hard disk driver boot-up. Hddriver.sys . But , as said you need new one .
You will need floppy with Hddriver (full version, as it is distributed). There are all necessary files for making szstem bootable.

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Re: IDE to CompactFlash or SD adapters

Postby Shredder11 » Thu Oct 09, 2008 3:44 pm

Regarding CompactFlash cards, I plan to buy a Sandisk model and I was wondering if using Type I or II makes any difference. Is the Atari more compatible with the older version or equally at home with both? I will be visiting my local Costco store this month and I expect they will mostly have 2GB and 4GB cards, which I presume will be Type II.

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Re: IDE to CompactFlash or SD adapters

Postby ppera » Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:38 pm

I did not see Sandisk type I for long time in stores.
Didn't observed some difference in behaviour between old 128KB, and newer 2GB card.

Why is Sandisk good for Ataris (and other oldies) ? Because it has different IDE bus timing than most of others. And 68000 CPU's timing is not much close to expected IDE bus timing (AT bus in fact). I saw some diagrams, and may say that it is very lucky that classic IDE hard disks all work with Atari IDE interfaces in Falcon and ST(E) machines. At least I did not see that some worked not. With CF cards situation is not so good. :(

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Re: IDE to CompactFlash or SD adapters

Postby Shredder11 » Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:28 pm

Oh I see, well I will stick with Sandisk then! Thanks for clearing all that up for me ppera. :)

Is there any sensible limit on the size of the CF card? Should I go for a max of 4GB or can I go higher? I appreciate that there are limits to the size of each partition and that BigDOS can achieve larger ones.

ppera

Re: IDE to CompactFlash or SD adapters

Postby ppera » Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:42 pm

I don't see reason to buy CF card bigger of 4GB for Ataris. Really don't know about some SW, multimedia or whatever of bigger size. On 4GB may place content of some 5000 floppies.
It may change by time, as prices will continue falling certainly.

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Re: IDE to CompactFlash or SD adapters

Postby joska » Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:32 am

Shredder11 wrote:Well I got lucky with a carefully worded Google search and found this...........


Quite expensive! You can buy a IDE->CF adapter from www.dealextreme.com for less than $3 - including international shipping. There's also a lot of these on eBay.
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Re: IDE to CompactFlash or SD adapters

Postby Shredder11 » Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:46 pm

Thanks for the link and it is a very good site, but they do not have what I want. I want an adapter that I can plug a CF card AND a CD-ROM/writer at the same time with one as Master and the other as Slave.

I've looked on Ebay before but usually only find stuff in Hong Kong, and I have heard many warnings from others on the web about buying from there.

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Re: IDE to CompactFlash or SD adapters

Postby joska » Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:56 pm

Shredder11 wrote:Thanks for the link and it is a very good site, but they do not have what I want. I want an adapter that I can plug a CF card AND a CD-ROM/writer at the same time with one as Master and the other as Slave.


I'm not sure if I understand what the problem is. Unless there's something I'm not getting it's just a matter of using a normal IDE cable with three connectors. One end connects to the IDE port on your Atari, the CF-adapter to the second connector and then finally the CD-ROM to the third connector. Set the CF-adapter as master and the CD as slave.

Shredder11 wrote:I've looked on Ebay before but usually only find stuff in Hong Kong, and I have heard many warnings from others on the web about buying from there.


I've bought lots of stuff from Hong Kong without any problems. Just take a look at the seller's feedback. Most have 98% or more positive feedback, which means little or no risk.
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Re: IDE to CompactFlash or SD adapters

Postby Shredder11 » Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:22 pm

Okay after more thought I have also considered this approach, which would cost under £15 or $30:

ImageImage

I found the cable on this website http://www.cablesonline.com/102driv44pin.html for $9, but I cannot find anything like it anywhere else or in the UK. One end would plug into my Atari STe TUS IDEal interface and then the components below would plug into this, so I could add the CF card and a CDROM/writer.

Image

A gender changer for the ribbon cable below...

Image

The ribbon cable for the slave CD-ROM/writer. I don't know if the Atari would pick it up as a slave though.

Image

The CF adapter to act as the master bootable device. Not sure if it should go at the end of the ribbon cable.


So maybe this is what I should be looking at, rather than the first CF adapter I mentioned at the beginning of this thread? Ahh.....decisions, decisions! :mrgreen: :coffe:

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Re: IDE to CompactFlash or SD adapters

Postby joska » Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:10 pm

Shredder11 wrote:Okay after more thought I have also considered this approach, which would cost under £15 or $30:

ImageImage

I found the cable on this website http://www.cablesonline.com/102driv44pin.html for $9, but I cannot find anything like it anywhere else or in the UK. One end would plug into my Atari STe TUS IDEal interface and then the components below would plug into this, so I could add the CF card and a CDROM/writer.


Doesn't the IDEal interface have a 40 pin header?

Shredder11 wrote:The CF adapter to act as the master bootable device. Not sure if it should go at the end of the ribbon cable.


So maybe this is what I should be looking at, rather than the first CF adapter I mentioned at the beginning of this thread? Ahh.....decisions, decisions! :mrgreen: :coffe:


I'd rather suggest that you connect a 3.5"->2.5" adapter to your CD-ROM so you can connect it directly to your 44-pin IDE cable. If the cable is too short, you should not extend it. You should instead use a 2.5"->3.5" adapter on your IDEal (unless it already has a 40 pin header) so you can use a normal IDE cable to both the CD-ROM and CF-adapter.
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Re: IDE to CompactFlash or SD adapters

Postby Shredder11 » Sun Oct 12, 2008 5:17 pm

joska wrote:
Doesn't the IDEal interface have a 40 pin header?


Image


joska wrote:
I'd rather suggest that you connect a 3.5"->2.5" adapter to your CD-ROM so you can connect it directly to your 44-pin IDE cable. If the cable is too short, you should not extend it. You should instead use a 2.5"->3.5" adapter on your IDEal (unless it already has a 40 pin header) so you can use a normal IDE cable to both the CD-ROM and CF-adapter.


Yes I did wonder about the length issue but it could be a liitle awkward having the CD-ROM facing the wrong way from the STe at the rear. The IDE ribbon cable is only 30cm though and I have seen some at 50cm, so maybe I could limit the other slave ribbon cable to 20cm? If this is a bad idea I suppose I will have to put up with an awkward setup. The rear of the STe case would require an opening to be cut, to allow the ribbon cable to pass through and hang from the case.

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Re: IDE to CompactFlash or SD adapters

Postby joska » Sun Oct 12, 2008 7:34 pm

Shredder11 wrote:Yes I did wonder about the length issue but it could be a liitle awkward having the CD-ROM facing the wrong way from the STe at the rear. The IDE ribbon cable is only 30cm though and I have seen some at 50cm, so maybe I could limit the other slave ribbon cable to 20cm? If this is a bad idea I suppose I will have to put up with an awkward setup. The rear of the STe case would require an opening to be cut, to allow the ribbon cable to pass through and hang from the case.


When I had my Falcon in a tower case I had an IDE HD and an IDE CD-ROM. I plugged a 2.5"->3.5" adapter into the 44 pin IDE connector on the Falcon motherboard, and used a normal IDE cable for the devices.
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Re: IDE to CompactFlash or SD adapters

Postby Shredder11 » Sun Oct 12, 2008 9:37 pm

One of the things I love about computers like the Atari ST(e) is the form factor, i.e. the shape of the case and the compact all-in-one design. Also if I were to attempt putting my main STe in a tower, it would become more complicated. I would need to house the keyboard in something and lengthen the wires or find a special adapter and use a PC keyboard. Mind you, I cannot rule out using a tower because I may be forced into it... :cry:

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Re: IDE to CompactFlash or SD adapters

Postby joska » Mon Oct 13, 2008 7:39 am

Shredder11 wrote:One of the things I love about computers like the Atari ST(e) is the form factor, i.e. the shape of the case and the compact all-in-one design. Also if I were to attempt putting my main STe in a tower, it would become more complicated. I would need to house the keyboard in something and lengthen the wires or find a special adapter and use a PC keyboard. Mind you, I cannot rule out using a tower because I may be forced into it... :cry:


If you want to connect an IDE CD-ROM you either have to go for a tower or some sort of desktop case, or find an external solution. I would guess that using SCSI would be the easiest way to use external devices.
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Re: IDE to CompactFlash or SD adapters

Postby ppera » Mon Oct 13, 2008 12:23 pm

Shredder11 wrote:One of the things I love about computers like the Atari ST(e) is the form factor, i.e. the shape of the case and the compact all-in-one design. Also if I were to attempt putting my main STe in a tower, it would become more complicated. I would need to house the keyboard in something and lengthen the wires or find a special adapter and use a PC keyboard. Mind you, I cannot rule out using a tower because I may be forced into it... :cry:


Well, I would not agree with this 100% :D We have Atari TT and Mega STE, 2 only 'pro.' Atari machines. They have separated keyboard with cable, much better power supply, factory hard drive of 3.5 inch etc. Case is still not too big, in range of today 'in' barebone PCs.

I used CD/DVD ROM drives as external, of course - with Mega ST, what is also with separated keyboard, but no place in case for CD drive. And PS getting very hot... (not pro one) .

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Re: IDE to CompactFlash or SD adapters

Postby Shredder11 » Mon Oct 13, 2008 9:46 pm

Well all three of my Atari computers are 4160 STe, not Mega STe or Falcon etc. I can see that encasing the Mega STe models in a tower would be a sensible thing to do. The proper PC keyboard, PSU and mouse would be a nice thing to have. Incidentally I will be powering the CD-ROM/writer with an external PSU, because I doubt the internal one would be able to cope! :lol:

Anyway since yesterday I have now been informed by the shop with the 44 pin ribbon cable, that they also do it in a 40cm version for $12/£6. They also stock extension cables from 5cm upwards.

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Re: IDE to CompactFlash or SD adapters

Postby joska » Tue Oct 14, 2008 7:24 am

Shredder11 wrote:I would need to house the keyboard in something and lengthen the wires or find a special adapter and use a PC keyboard.:


I'd rather suggest using a MSTE/TT-keyboard. The layout is identical to the ST(e), and the keyboards are still available from 16/32 Systems.

If you can find a Desktopper case you'll keep the footprint of the STE case, and there's room for an internal 5.25" CD-ROM and a 3.5" IDE drive.
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Re: IDE to CompactFlash or SD adapters

Postby ppera » Tue Oct 14, 2008 11:43 am

Yes. Better using Mega ST/TT keyboard than PC's... They are good quality, and no need for some Eiffels.

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Re: IDE to CompactFlash or SD adapters

Postby Shredder11 » Tue Oct 14, 2008 11:56 am

Ahh yes I forgot about the Mega STe peripherals although this would mean more expense, i.e. to get the case I would probably need to win a full MSTE from Ebay at the usual stupid overinflated prices. Very good idea though and one I will keep in mind.

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Re: IDE to CompactFlash or SD adapters

Postby joska » Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:56 pm

Shredder11 wrote:Ahh yes I forgot about the Mega STe peripherals although this would mean more expense, i.e. to get the case I would probably need to win a full MSTE from Ebay at the usual stupid overinflated prices. Very good idea though and one I will keep in mind.


You can buy a new TT keyboard from 16/32 for £25. I don't suggest using a MSTE case - it won't fit your STE motherboard. I suggest looking for a Desktopper case, which is a replacement for the top of the standard ST(e)/Falcon case. It will accommodate one 5.25" device and one 3.5" device. You can also fabricate something like this quite easily. I made one from some scrap aluminium about 15 years ago, I used it with my STe for a while and then with my Falcon.
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