NetusBee?

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NetusBee?

Postby Heavy Stylus » Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:34 am

Anyone know when these will be available to buy, and how much they'll cost?
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Re: NetusBee?

Postby simonsunnyboy » Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:52 am

You can already buy the Netusbee. Try http://hardware.atari.org/ , however it is a bit pricy (for my taste).
Take note that USB functionality under TOS is limited to a beta version mouse driver.
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Re: NetusBee?

Postby earx » Fri Apr 04, 2008 10:50 am

News

2008

January - All NETUS-Bee stock sold and dispatched. University final year project dissitation main priority.

--

that means we have to get them somewhere else.

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Re: NetusBee?

Postby stimpy » Fri Apr 04, 2008 3:59 pm

I am thinking once I have time on my hands around Jully/August I will start selling cut down versions. They will be cheaper and only do Networking. They will use the same PCB though, so can be sent back for the USB upgrade when more drivers are available.
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Re: NetusBee?

Postby keropi » Fri Apr 04, 2008 10:25 pm

really? no USB MASS STORAGE driver at all? no flash disks or usb hd's ??? wow... 8O 8O 8O

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Re: NetusBee?

Postby stimpy » Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:09 am

I was hoping that once enough people got the USB hardware, from either the NETUS-Bee of EtherNAT that some more drivers would appear, but they haven't yet :cry:
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Re: NetusBee?

Postby simonsunnyboy » Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:21 am

The problem is that USB needs quite a bit of software. Without a standard for the USB API, it is hard to port existing drivers.
I fully think that as soon as there is some sort of USB kernel support, most Linux USB drivers could be ported with ase. At least for Mint (and possibly MagiC) ;)
And honestly I think there are devices which will be of little use on Atari. Webcams for example need a lot of bandwidth. The mouse driver is a real useful start and IMHO mass storage should be second to this ;)
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Re: NetusBee?

Postby ppera » Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:55 am

simonsunnyboy wrote:... mouse driver is a real useful start and IMHO mass storage should be second to this ;)


USB mouses actually use PS2 protocol. There is driver for it, if not for Atari ST then for some 8-bit machines. Should be much simpler than USB protocol. PS2-USB mouse - only connector differs.

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Re: NetusBee?

Postby christos » Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:27 am

Hasn't Coda already made the usb stack?
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Re: NetusBee?

Postby bullis1 » Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:13 pm

simonsunnyboy wrote:The problem is that USB needs quite a bit of software. Without a standard for the USB API, it is hard to port existing drivers.


This is very true. Adding USB software to an OS with no built-in support is a nightmare. I know this from when I added USB mass-storage support to an MS-DOS machine. It took man, many attempts even with the right drivers. I'm aware that this really isn't the same situation at all, but I read lots of docs on USB for DOS and it was a complicated matter.
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Re: NetusBee?

Postby MaLICiouS » Mon May 05, 2008 1:25 pm

stimpy wrote:I am thinking once I have time on my hands around Jully/August I will start selling cut down versions. They will be cheaper and only do Networking. They will use the same PCB though, so can be sent back for the USB upgrade when more drivers are available.

In that case, count me in for one! :D
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Re: NetusBee?

Postby rian_ata » Mon May 05, 2008 8:58 pm

Interested in a cut down version as well!

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Re: NetusBee?

Postby jfl » Mon May 05, 2008 9:18 pm

Definitely interested in a NETUS-Bee too.
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Re: NetusBee?

Postby teh3pwner » Tue May 06, 2008 6:56 pm

count me in :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: NetusBee?

Postby jd » Wed May 07, 2008 11:42 am

I want one too!!

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Re: NetusBee?

Postby Mr.JT » Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:42 pm

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Re: NetusBee?

Postby [ProToS] » Thu Jun 19, 2008 8:02 pm

will be for 2 or 3 but for the full, not the cut down.
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Re: NetusBee?

Postby CopperCAT » Sat Jun 21, 2008 11:09 am

stimpy wrote:I am thinking once I have time on my hands around Jully/August I will start selling cut down versions. They will be cheaper and only do Networking. They will use the same PCB though, so can be sent back for the USB upgrade when more drivers are available.


Stimpy, I would like to build one myself, but I can't seem to find a source of the RTL8029 IC's (nor the ISP1160). Where do you find these chips?
Maybe it would be cheaper/easier to make a version based on the Microchip ENC28J60 ? http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/72429.pdf It's only 10Mbps but tailored for microcontrollers.

Also, in the readme of the package it's mentioned that the EEPROM can be programmed with the software on http://hardware.atari.org , but I also can't find it :(

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Re: NetusBee?

Postby Jookie » Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:55 am

CopperCAT wrote:Maybe it would be cheaper/easier to make a version based on the Microchip ENC28J60?


Using the ENC28J60 in NetusBEE would be more complicated, because it uses SPI as the communication interface - it would require another chip which would convert the ROM port signals to SPI interface. The used RTL8019 chip uses paralel FIFO interface, which is easier to connect to ROM port.

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Re: NetusBee?

Postby CopperCAT » Tue Jun 24, 2008 5:23 pm

Jookie wrote:
CopperCAT wrote:Maybe it would be cheaper/easier to make a version based on the Microchip ENC28J60?


Using the ENC28J60 in NetusBEE would be more complicated, because it uses SPI as the communication interface - it would require another chip which would convert the ROM port signals to SPI interface. The used RTL8019 chip uses paralel FIFO interface, which is easier to connect to ROM port.

Jookie


Yes, that is true, but the 8019 is certainly more expensive than an ENC28J60 and a PIC with hardware SPI functions together. Also, SPI is such a simple protocol that you can just bitbang it from any uC. Maybe even from the ROM-port.

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Re: NetusBee?

Postby simonsunnyboy » Tue Jun 24, 2008 5:45 pm

You can't. The ROM Port is readonly and requires special tricks on the address encoding to fake write access.
Actually the NetUSBee with parallel BUS conenction is already pretty slow, I think performance will degrade even further if you add some serial protocol (whatever you want t o use) inbetween.
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Re: NetusBee?

Postby ppera » Tue Jun 24, 2008 5:56 pm

Reading on CARTridge port can be pretty fast - over 1Mbyte/sec. Even tricky write can be over 100-150 Kbytes-sec.
Stilll much faster than some serial 'LAN' .

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Re: NetusBee?

Postby CopperCAT » Tue Jun 24, 2008 6:19 pm

simonsunnyboy wrote:You can't. The ROM Port is readonly and requires special tricks on the address encoding to fake write access.
Actually the NetUSBee with parallel BUS conenction is already pretty slow, I think performance will degrade even further if you add some serial protocol (whatever you want t o use) inbetween.


Yes i know that. Actually I got the idea when going through an Atari ST hobby book about the ROM port and then I remembered netusbee :D
But achieving high LAN throughput is not really important on an Atari I guess :) It's just that SPI is attractive because there is loads of stuff available for it, even USB controllers.

Ah well, thinking of something and implementing it are far apart :lol:

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Re: NetusBee?

Postby Jookie » Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:59 pm

CopperCAT wrote:Yes, that is true, but the 8019 is certainly more expensive than an ENC28J60 and a PIC with hardware SPI functions together.


I can get RTL8019 for $7.75, and I can get the ENC28J60 for $7.4 - they cost almost the same :) I was thinking of making some faster ethernet card (with some protocol processing inside the card to offload the ST), but I realized that people probably wouldn't want yet another ethernet card for ST (and that most people don't use ST for networking anyway)...

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Re: NetusBee?

Postby krupkaj » Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:10 pm

ppera wrote:Reading on CARTridge port can be pretty fast - over 1Mbyte/sec. Even tricky write can be over 100-150 Kbytes-sec.
Stilll much faster than some serial 'LAN' .

That is interesting. I have EtherNEC (what is predecessor of NetUSBee) on my TT and Falcon and writing is faster than reading. Reading from network is around 150-200KB per second while writing is around 250+ KB per second. For networking I am using mintnet. So I am curious where is the bottleneck. According to you it shoud be faster at input.


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