Automatic mono color monitor switch?

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samuel_a15
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Automatic mono color monitor switch?

Postby samuel_a15 » Mon Dec 31, 2007 7:45 pm

I wonder if anyone have built or if there are anything to buy that automaticly switch between a mono and a color monitor.
I use my atari for asm programming and I like to do that on the mono monitor because of the better picture, but then I run my own program and goes into low res I want it to automaticly switch to the color monitor and then I end it, it should go back to mono. Right now I have to use the asm editor in medium res, wich isn't as good as the mono.

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Re: Automatic mono color monitor switch?

Postby unseenmenace » Mon Dec 31, 2007 8:00 pm

samuel_a15 wrote:I wonder if anyone have built or if there are anything to buy that automaticly switch between a mono and a color monitor.
I use my atari for asm programming and I like to do that on the mono monitor because of the better picture, but then I run my own program and goes into low res I want it to automaticly switch to the color monitor and then I end it, it should go back to mono. Right now I have to use the asm editor in medium res, wich isn't as good as the mono.

As far as I can tell this isn't possible in the way you describe, i.e. automatically. What should be possible however is to write a program that hooks into the reset vector so you can flick a switch (or unplug the mono monitor) to change mode. Of course GEM won't work correctly in the new resolution but your own code should be fine. I did some experimentation with this some years ago and I may still have the source somewhere on a disk.
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Re: Automatic mono color monitor switch?

Postby simbo_backdoor » Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:35 pm

one way to develop is to use 4mb of ram and the cartrige ports on several ataris

so cross model checkes can be made easily

you simply have a single boot floppy in each machine
that ... on a warm or cold boot loads the application loader into the machine
to yield catridge port access to the main set of apps stored in the cartrige communal ram

say 1mb per machine
this way a development machine in hires can just dump to the cartrige much like a big floppy would
and make the application your working on avalible to any other machine

remember this ram is never written too by the testing machines

only used to dump between models and the development machine

just an idea ...

:P

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Re: Automatic mono color monitor switch?

Postby Dal » Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:38 pm

simbo_backdoor wrote:one way to develop is to use 4mb of ram and the cartrige ports on several ataris

so cross model checkes can be made easily

you simply have a single boot floppy in each machine
that ... on a warm or cold boot loads the application loader into the machine
to yield catridge port access to the main set of apps stored in the cartrige communal ram

say 1mb per machine
this way a development machine in hires can just dump to the cartrige much like a big floppy would
and make the application your working on avalible to any other machine

remember this ram is never written too by the testing machines

only used to dump between models and the development machine

just an idea ...

:P


Now that's neat...if it works in practice! :D
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Re: Automatic mono color monitor switch?

Postby simbo_backdoor » Sat Jan 26, 2008 12:00 am

ye there is no reason why it wont
i can see the circuit in front of me
simply a redesigned cartrige port expander on the main development hires machine to add ram and a controller
and some cables to up to 1mb layer machines so 16mb = 16 machines
ive rarely seen much developed above 1mb only samples took up the other 3mb everyone insits on adding
so for app development {for this purpose 1mb is a usable cache size}
a 1mb inter atari cache is prob fine but
4mb is easily possible if its art stuff or apps that generate big files again also it will depend on the system ram avalibe in the target machine
the cartrige port provides a reset so a 1mb block can be transfered on reset of any machine {machines can also be priority cued}
perhaps the main machine should use a jookie hdd bridge and an sdcard out to treat the cashe as a drive
this is easier to set up
i think that each machine could take over programming of the system info for any contra flow data you wish to pass to the development machine
maybe via serial or some other media
and this could be used to aid at a system level like a snapshot of the system ram on another machine while your development is running
all easily possible using the likes of a 30mhz or less pic or atmel / mega mcu and a single 4mb or more sdcard
the drivers and applet on the development machine should control what version of compilation gets delivered to each layer platform
this system just running would be able to capture valuable data that other wise even using special software wouldnt be possible and handy very handy for the fpga clone guys i see posting radical very well thought out designs i will for one invest in
this idea for porting isnt new but also isnt public and it should be
Last edited by simbo_backdoor on Sat Jan 26, 2008 12:28 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Automatic mono color monitor switch?

Postby Greenious » Sat Jan 26, 2008 12:15 am

samuel_a15 wrote:I wonder if anyone have built or if there are anything to buy that automaticly switch between a mono and a color monitor.
I use my atari for asm programming and I like to do that on the mono monitor because of the better picture, but then I run my own program and goes into low res I want it to automaticly switch to the color monitor and then I end it, it should go back to mono. Right now I have to use the asm editor in medium res, wich isn't as good as the mono.


Well...

Mono monitor detect, there is a pin in the monitor port connected to the mfp. When grounded (I believe, or if it is the other way around), triggers a interrupt that TOS interprets as a monitor switch, and the ST reboots.

However...

Your problem... has many aspects.

Strictly speaking, the ST do not have to reboot after a change in resolution, many examples exist that prove this, lacescan and other applications using hardware overscan on ST.

The easiest solution is using a multisync monitor in mono mode, write your code, and upon starting the code switch to lowres or midres and do your thing and then turn back to mono before quitting. The multisync monitor should adapt.

unfortunately multisync monitors are somewhat rare today...

you could also hook 2 monitors up, hoping they both can cope with an unconvenient resolution, and just go from there. If you use a standard VGA as monomonitor, they usually turn themselves off when they encounter unknown resolutions, but the other monitor for low/midres is the big question. Will it shut down or do it's best to show the picture, and perhaps burn out?
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Re: Automatic mono color monitor switch?

Postby simbo_backdoor » Sat Jan 26, 2008 12:42 am

hi Greenious

how are you happy new year etc...

the problem comes from the time delay to reboot

to develop there is a sequence

run compiler {wait till it loads} poo loads of thinking then compile and pray {wait till it compiles and saves} then quit the compiler and hot plug {if your brave} to the colour monitor {and its not a good idea to switch while the machine is even running } then restart the machine {now in med or low res} then {wait till it loads and hdd boot } then find and start your app

the system i propose is simple in flow

2 machine development or more using a pc steem if you like {not as easy yet becouse no usb 1.1 for atari machines although its easy}

open compiler on main machine adjust and compile direct to the cashe drive 4 or 16 md sdcard layer 1

if you compile for more than one model / tos then adding ifdef etc is needed and some machine data collect ai at the begining of the apps thread

so once compiled and passed to the card
a simple warm reboot of any target machine is needed
to trigger a reset signal in sequence to each machine to trigger a load from cartrige port {but is really ram } as you can trigger a reset from the port
maybe one extra wire

detected by the controller this triggers the machines priority layer to load over to it via the logic chips directed to port
this resets the machine and loads it up

so simply put one build machine via hdd programs every machine layer you add with a cartrige load on reset / load cartrige
this can easily be done or triggered in app like ctrl X reloads the app ctrl z loads a patch so any compiler can THEN FLY PROGRAM
so then once all units are running its just takes a pass byte or word etc to any machines ram direct by byte
into the ram area of the target machine so its debug friendly fully
... apps running on a single machine can even be set to auto check for updates
load to protected or machine dependant system ram can then be a floppy disk loaded set of commands by function key
like load video control word any other hardware registers etc
so remote machines can be resolution changed warm booted and reloaded etc etc
its all very easy to write and make in hardware just one micro and some logic and some bridging
many features also become avalible with multi machine fly remote development
even over the web dev with pals to remote arrays just dump the block over and unpack and run

forget switching get another machine

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Re: Automatic mono color monitor switch?

Postby nobogod » Sat Jan 26, 2008 12:17 pm

Do you know/remember the game Bolo?
It has monochrome graphics but it works on both Hi and Low resolutions.

But I remember that it was the only program that permited you to switch monitors!
I think so.
I only had a mono monitor and couldn't check. BUT I could unplug the monitor in the middle of the game and plug it in again! No reset, no nothing. You could just keep on playing...

How did they do it?

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Re: Automatic mono color monitor switch?

Postby simbo_backdoor » Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:53 pm

what it probably did was detect the mono monitor being plugged in the circuit for an ste gives it as monomon signal
then if detected it switched and reconfigured the video control word

so perhaps its easy within one program

but while developing its a hastle you would still be forced to do

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Re: Automatic mono color monitor switch?

Postby unseenmenace » Sat Feb 02, 2008 6:53 pm

nobogod wrote:I could unplug the monitor in the middle of the game and plug it in again! No reset, no nothing. You could just keep on playing...

How did they do it?

Thats exactly what my experimental code could do. It just intercepts the reset vector and checks what mode its in from the resolution register if I remember correctly.
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Re: Automatic mono color monitor switch?

Postby simbo » Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:12 am

sounds cool
i think that your code looks at the controllers address in ram and reads the config word
the st intern has its limits for video info
maybe something like a simply runonce at reset vector detect tsr is all thats needed as a subroutine self exec
maybe adding a rom is an idea and supply the app on cartrige i think a modern micro controller mounted on the cartrige card
would be able to do much more when monitors get changed to the program running


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