Mega ST keyboard and 1040 ST

Troubles with your machine? Just want to speak about the latest improvements? This is the place!

Moderators: Mug UK, Zorro 2, Greenious, spiny, Moderator Team

oblonskij
Atariator
Atariator
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 1:12 pm

Mega ST keyboard and 1040 ST

Postby oblonskij » Sun Sep 16, 2007 11:53 am

Hi, is there a way how to connect Mega ST/STE keyboard to 1040 ST?
Thanks.

User avatar
Greenious
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 1160
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2004 5:39 pm
Location: Sweden

Postby Greenious » Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:24 am

Yes, there is.

4 signals need to be attached. GND, 5V, RXD & TXD.

MegaST - TT - MegaSTe (6 pole modular connector)
Pin 1 + 2 +5VDC
Pin 3 TxD
Pin 4 RxD
Pin 5 + 6 GND

1040STe - all - and Falcon
Pin 1 GND
Pin 2 ** KEY (no pin)
Pin 3 FDD/HDD LED
Pin 4 +5VDC
Pin 5 RxD
Pin 6 TxD
Pin 7 Reset
Pin 8 GND
Pin 9 KTOK
Pin 10 KROK
Updated my guides as of june 28th, 2016. Check'em out and feedback!
viewtopic.php?t=5040

oblonskij
Atariator
Atariator
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 1:12 pm

Postby oblonskij » Sun Sep 23, 2007 3:46 pm

thanks much for your help Greenious

mikro
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1104
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2005 11:11 am
Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
Contact:

Re:

Postby mikro » Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:17 pm

Greenious wrote:Pin 9 KTOK
Pin 10 KROK

Just found this old thread ... do you know the exact meaning of those pins? KTOK seems to be connected to ACIA's IRQ line but I haven't been able to trace KROK.

EDIT: found the answer: viewtopic.php?p=83523#p83523

joska
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 3504
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:55 pm
Location: Florø, Norway
Contact:

Re: Mega ST keyboard and 1040 ST

Postby joska » Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:32 pm

I believe these are only present on the Falcon, not the STE/ST. I have no clue what they do, but I know you can safely ignore them when connecting an external keyboard.
Jo Even

Firebee - Falcon060 - Milan060 - Falcon040 - MIST - Mega ST - STM - STE - Amiga 600 - Sharp MZ700 - MSX - Amstrad CPC - C64

User avatar
olivierg
Atari User
Atari User
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:10 pm
Location: Belgium
Contact:

Re: Mega ST keyboard and 1040 ST

Postby olivierg » Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:21 pm

Hi,

Another question: what speed and serial protocol for TT... ?

Thanks
Olivier
TT030 4/32 TOS 3.06, Mega ST4, Mega ST2, 1040 STE, 2 x 1040STFM, 2 x 1040STF, MegaFile 30, Lynx 1

joska
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 3504
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:55 pm
Location: Florø, Norway
Contact:

Re: Mega ST keyboard and 1040 ST

Postby joska » Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:09 pm

Keyboard you mean? Same on all ST/TT/Falcon keyboards - 7812.5 baud, 8 bits, 1 stopbit, no parity.
Jo Even

Firebee - Falcon060 - Milan060 - Falcon040 - MIST - Mega ST - STM - STE - Amiga 600 - Sharp MZ700 - MSX - Amstrad CPC - C64

User avatar
olivierg
Atari User
Atari User
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:10 pm
Location: Belgium
Contact:

Re: Mega ST keyboard and 1040 ST

Postby olivierg » Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:09 pm

Yes thanks (stange speed).

I see RX, the MCU of keyboard recieve confirmation or other information ?

Thanks
Olviier
TT030 4/32 TOS 3.06, Mega ST4, Mega ST2, 1040 STE, 2 x 1040STFM, 2 x 1040STF, MegaFile 30, Lynx 1

joska
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 3504
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:55 pm
Location: Florø, Norway
Contact:

Re: Mega ST keyboard and 1040 ST

Postby joska » Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:21 pm

Rx on computer receives data from the keyboard.

7812.5 may seem odd, but is easy to derive from the system clock (16MHz / 2048).
Jo Even

Firebee - Falcon060 - Milan060 - Falcon040 - MIST - Mega ST - STM - STE - Amiga 600 - Sharp MZ700 - MSX - Amstrad CPC - C64

User avatar
olivierg
Atari User
Atari User
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:10 pm
Location: Belgium
Contact:

Re: Mega ST keyboard and 1040 ST

Postby olivierg » Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:12 pm

Sorry TX, OS send information to keyboard ?

Thanks
Olivier
TT030 4/32 TOS 3.06, Mega ST4, Mega ST2, 1040 STE, 2 x 1040STFM, 2 x 1040STF, MegaFile 30, Lynx 1

joska
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 3504
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:55 pm
Location: Florø, Norway
Contact:

Re: Mega ST keyboard and 1040 ST

Postby joska » Tue Aug 08, 2017 7:14 pm

Correct.
Jo Even

Firebee - Falcon060 - Milan060 - Falcon040 - MIST - Mega ST - STM - STE - Amiga 600 - Sharp MZ700 - MSX - Amstrad CPC - C64

User avatar
olivierg
Atari User
Atari User
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:10 pm
Location: Belgium
Contact:

Re: Mega ST keyboard and 1040 ST

Postby olivierg » Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:03 pm

I was hoping for more details :roll:
TT030 4/32 TOS 3.06, Mega ST4, Mega ST2, 1040 STE, 2 x 1040STFM, 2 x 1040STF, MegaFile 30, Lynx 1

joska
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 3504
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:55 pm
Location: Florø, Norway
Contact:

Re: Mega ST keyboard and 1040 ST

Postby joska » Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:06 am

What kind of details are you looking for?
Jo Even

Firebee - Falcon060 - Milan060 - Falcon040 - MIST - Mega ST - STM - STE - Amiga 600 - Sharp MZ700 - MSX - Amstrad CPC - C64

User avatar
olivierg
Atari User
Atari User
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:10 pm
Location: Belgium
Contact:

Re: Mega ST keyboard and 1040 ST

Postby olivierg » Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:34 pm

I have in project create Keyboard for my TT with Cherry MX Key.
I know there are solutions for plugging a PS2 or USB keyboard on the atari, but 'bof', there is a lot of key that does not serve anything.
So I wanted to know what was the communication protocol used by the atari.
If there is someone who has explanatory material, it would help me see if can used an MCU (AVR) to do this.

This is probably a very expensive approach, but I find it more interesting.
I have estimate the price + 200 euro.

Thank you
Olivier
TT030 4/32 TOS 3.06, Mega ST4, Mega ST2, 1040 STE, 2 x 1040STFM, 2 x 1040STF, MegaFile 30, Lynx 1

joska
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 3504
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:55 pm
Location: Florø, Norway
Contact:

Re: Mega ST keyboard and 1040 ST

Postby joska » Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:05 pm

I see. Interesting project :) So what you you need to do is to create a keyboard matrix and connect this to a microcontroller that acts as an IKBD keyboard. I have already done this using a Teensy microcontroller, PM me if you're interested in the source code.

Btw Atari's documentation of the IKBD protocol can be found here: http://dev-docs.atariforge.org/files/ikbd_Prot_2-26-1985.pdf
Jo Even

Firebee - Falcon060 - Milan060 - Falcon040 - MIST - Mega ST - STM - STE - Amiga 600 - Sharp MZ700 - MSX - Amstrad CPC - C64

User avatar
wongck
Ultimate Atarian
Ultimate Atarian
Posts: 11786
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 2:09 pm
Location: Far East
Contact:

Re: Mega ST keyboard and 1040 ST

Postby wongck » Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:42 pm

joska wrote:I see. Interesting project :) So what you you need to do is to create a keyboard matrix and connect this to a microcontroller that acts as an IKBD keyboard. I have already done this using a Teensy microcontroller, PM me if you're interested in the source code.


Joska, Does your code run on a Teensy-LC ?
That should be slightly more than 10 EUR.
My Stuff: FB/Falcon CT63+CTPCI ATI R7500 14+512MB 30GB HDD CF HxC_SD EtherNEC/ TT030 68882 4+32MB 520MB Nova/ 520STFM 4MB Tos206 SCSI
Shared SCSI Bus:ScsiLink ethernet, 9GB HDD,SD-reader @ http://phsw.atari.org
My Atari stuff for sale - click here for list

joska
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 3504
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:55 pm
Location: Florø, Norway
Contact:

Re: Mega ST keyboard and 1040 ST

Postby joska » Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:39 am

wongck wrote:Joska, Does your code run on a Teensy-LC ?


It most likely will, with some minor modifications. However, the keyboard matrix use 27-28 pins (depending on implementation) if connected directly to the microcontroller, and then you need some pins (serial, SPI) to attach it to the ST and a USB host card, and also five or ten pins to read one or two joysticks. The LC does not have enough pins. However, if you modify the code to use a shift register to select column you can reduce the amount of pins significantly. In that case you could use a £2 Arduino nano clone. I used a Teensy++ 2.0 just because it has lots of IO pins which made the circuit extremely simple.
Jo Even

Firebee - Falcon060 - Milan060 - Falcon040 - MIST - Mega ST - STM - STE - Amiga 600 - Sharp MZ700 - MSX - Amstrad CPC - C64

User avatar
wongck
Ultimate Atarian
Ultimate Atarian
Posts: 11786
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 2:09 pm
Location: Far East
Contact:

Re: Mega ST keyboard and 1040 ST

Postby wongck » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:38 am

joska wrote:In that case you could use a £2 Arduino nano clone. I used a Teensy++ 2.0 just because it has lots of IO pins which made the circuit extremely simple.


Ah Ok, so there are others cheaper alternatives.
My Stuff: FB/Falcon CT63+CTPCI ATI R7500 14+512MB 30GB HDD CF HxC_SD EtherNEC/ TT030 68882 4+32MB 520MB Nova/ 520STFM 4MB Tos206 SCSI
Shared SCSI Bus:ScsiLink ethernet, 9GB HDD,SD-reader @ http://phsw.atari.org
My Atari stuff for sale - click here for list

joska
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 3504
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:55 pm
Location: Florø, Norway
Contact:

Re: Mega ST keyboard and 1040 ST

Postby joska » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:51 am

wongck wrote:Ah Ok, so there are others cheaper alternatives.


Yes, but it complicates the circuit. For a one-off keyboard I'd rather spend a few $$ more on a microcontroller with more IO pins.
Jo Even

Firebee - Falcon060 - Milan060 - Falcon040 - MIST - Mega ST - STM - STE - Amiga 600 - Sharp MZ700 - MSX - Amstrad CPC - C64

User avatar
wongck
Ultimate Atarian
Ultimate Atarian
Posts: 11786
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 2:09 pm
Location: Far East
Contact:

Re: Mega ST keyboard and 1040 ST

Postby wongck » Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:20 pm

Yeah, your're right. Get something that proven works.
My Stuff: FB/Falcon CT63+CTPCI ATI R7500 14+512MB 30GB HDD CF HxC_SD EtherNEC/ TT030 68882 4+32MB 520MB Nova/ 520STFM 4MB Tos206 SCSI
Shared SCSI Bus:ScsiLink ethernet, 9GB HDD,SD-reader @ http://phsw.atari.org
My Atari stuff for sale - click here for list

User avatar
Greenious
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 1160
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2004 5:39 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Mega ST keyboard and 1040 ST

Postby Greenious » Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:38 pm

You could reuse an Atari IKBD, or buy the IC (HD6301) and program it with IKBD firmware, (I believe the firmware can be found in the STeem archive aswell as elsewhere) and use the same schematics and matrix Atari does.

The thought has crossed my mind to do just that and build my own keyboard inspired by these:
https://www.pinterest.com/explore/steampunk-keyboard/

Anyway, a good external replacement keyboard probably got a market today.
Updated my guides as of june 28th, 2016. Check'em out and feedback!
viewtopic.php?t=5040

User avatar
olivierg
Atari User
Atari User
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:10 pm
Location: Belgium
Contact:

Re: Mega ST keyboard and 1040 ST

Postby olivierg » Fri Aug 11, 2017 7:33 pm

Many thanks for document, very nice.

My approach is little different, for easy soldering (the MCU with many IO is not easy to soldering), my idea is use ATMEGA324 or 644 in TQFP @ 16Mhz and 6 MCP23017 SOIC (16Bit IO Expander I2C) = 96 Key (i needed 95). The Joystick and mouse i use IO from MCU.

But the idea of Greenious is not bad, i have some keyboard from 520 and 1040. I have read on this forum the HD6301 used it’s the same of TT keyboard. Or other posibilty after dump firmware on keyboard, use HD6301 with external ROM but i have not found the schematic of MEGA/TT keyboard on web. This solution as great advantage no programming needed.

Thanks
Olivier
TT030 4/32 TOS 3.06, Mega ST4, Mega ST2, 1040 STE, 2 x 1040STFM, 2 x 1040STF, MegaFile 30, Lynx 1

User avatar
Greenious
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 1160
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2004 5:39 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Mega ST keyboard and 1040 ST

Postby Greenious » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:05 pm

All ST/STE/TT/F030 use the same keyboard, although with different looks/iterations.

And the basic schematic of the keyboard can be found here: http://dev-docs.atariforge.org/files/Me ... 9-1987.pdf
page 8 or 9 I think.

I've seen another schematic of the keyboard elsewhere aswell.
Updated my guides as of june 28th, 2016. Check'em out and feedback!
viewtopic.php?t=5040

User avatar
olivierg
Atari User
Atari User
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:10 pm
Location: Belgium
Contact:

Re: Mega ST keyboard and 1040 ST

Postby olivierg » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:26 pm

Many thanks, with page 8 is clear now.

Ok, your idea is very good, i create schematic with your idea.

Thanks
Olivier
TT030 4/32 TOS 3.06, Mega ST4, Mega ST2, 1040 STE, 2 x 1040STFM, 2 x 1040STF, MegaFile 30, Lynx 1

User avatar
Greenious
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 1160
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2004 5:39 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Mega ST keyboard and 1040 ST

Postby Greenious » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:43 pm

Cool!

Good luck & keep us updated!
Updated my guides as of june 28th, 2016. Check'em out and feedback!
viewtopic.php?t=5040


Social Media

     

Return to “Hardware”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests