Java in Atari

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paKoSTe
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Java in Atari

Postby paKoSTe » Fri Nov 22, 2019 12:12 pm

Hello gyus,

This is my first post in this forum.

I have a proyect to execute a home automation software in Atari 520St or Atari Mega STE. This soft is OpenHab, but it is operate via Java, Does anyone know if there is any version of JAVA that runs on these Atari models?

Note: OpenHabhave version to linux too. Any linux to Atari?.

Thanks for yours answer.

Best regards

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Cyprian
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Re: Java in Atari

Postby Cyprian » Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:20 pm

there was a Atari ST Java port called Kaffe/MiNT
Lynx II / Jaguar / TT030 / Mega STe / 800 XL / 1040 STe / Falcon030 / 65 XE / 520 STm / SM124 / SC1435
SDrive / PAK68/3 / Lynx Multi Card / LDW Super 2000 / XCA12 / SkunkBoard / CosmosEx / SatanDisk / UltraSatan / USB Floppy Drive Emulator / Eiffel / SIO2PC / Crazy Dots / PAM Net
Hatari / Steem SSE / Aranym / Saint
http://260ste.appspot.com/

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simonsunnyboy
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Re: Java in Atari

Postby simonsunnyboy » Fri Nov 22, 2019 3:13 pm

Kaffe will probably still crawl on a CT60 or Firebee and certainly not run on ST-class machines.

For TT and Falcon there should be some (older?) Debian port available.
At atari-home.de there once was a discussion but you will clearly need a powerful Atari for this: https://forum.atari-home.de/index.php/t ... 470.0.html. ST-class machines as mentioned are NOT supported

I suggest getting a small Thinclient instead, those cost <30€ and normally have ~1GHz processor speed, enough to really run something Java.
I would really be surprised if you get anything running with an Atari. If you do, keep us posted.
Simon Sunnyboy/Paradize - http://paradize.atari.org/

Stay cool, stay Atari!

1x2600jr, 1x1040STFm, 1x1040STE 4MB+TOS2.06+SatanDisk, 1xF030 14MB+FPU+NetUS-Bee

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1st1
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Re: Java in Atari

Postby 1st1 » Fri Nov 22, 2019 5:51 pm

I still remember first experiments with Java arround 1996 on Windows and Linux, and it was really demanding, a Pentium 200 MMX or something like that was not fast with that. So how could an 8 Mhz 68000 do? Even a Vampire or Firebee should be unsatisfying fort that task.
Power without the Price. It's not a bug. It's a feature. _/|\_ATARI

1040STFM in PC-Tower (PAK68/2, OvrScn, 4 MB, 1GB SCSI, CD-ROM...) * 2x Falcon 030 32GB/14MB+ScrnBlstrIII * 2x TT030 73GB/20MB+Nova * 520/1040STFM * 520/1040STE * 260/520ST/+ * some Mega ST * 2x Mega STE 500MB/4MB+M.CoCo * Stacy * STBook * SLM605 * SLM804 * SLM605 * SMM804 * SH 204/205 * Megafile 30/44/60 * SF314 * SF354 * 5x Pofo * PC3

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Re: Java in Atari

Postby PeterS » Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:46 pm

Early versions of Java were slow but big improvements were made almost 20 years ago.

I wonder what it would be like now ?

I'm not saying it could run big apps but it might be usable for really basic stuff. Although memory might be an issue.

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AdamK
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Re: Java in Atari

Postby AdamK » Fri Nov 22, 2019 8:24 pm

Those improvements never landed on m68k.
Atari: FireBee, Falcon030 + CT60e + SuperVidel + SvEthlana, TT, 520ST + 4MB ST RAM + 8MB TT RAM + CosmosEx + SC1435, 1040STFM + UltraSatan + SM124, 1040STE 4MB ST RAM + 8MB TT RAM + CosmosEx + NetUSBee + SM144 + SC1224, 65XE + U1MB + VBXE + SIDE2, Jaguar, Lynx II, 2 x Portfolio (HPC-006)

Adam Klobukowski [adamklobukowski@gmail.com]

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Eero Tamminen
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Re: Java in Atari

Postby Eero Tamminen » Sat Nov 23, 2019 2:57 pm

simonsunnyboy wrote:Kaffe will probably still crawl on a CT60 or Firebee and certainly not run on ST-class machines.

For TT and Falcon there should be some (older?) Debian port available.


m68k Debian is still actively maintained, and Linux kernels "should" just work on Ataris with 030 or better. Very latest versions are:
* Installer: https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/port ... 68k.tar.gz
* Net install image: https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/port ... INST-1.iso

Unfortunately Hatari 030 (MMU / exception?) emulation is still missing something as I can't get Debian working on it (any version). I can boot Linux v5.3 kernel with busybox root file system, but even that has some problems in Hatari:
https://hatari.tuxfamily.org/doc/m68k-l ... hatari.txt

simonsunnyboy wrote:I suggest getting a small Thinclient instead, those cost <30€ and normally have ~1GHz processor speed, enough to really run something Java.
I would really be surprised if you get anything running with an Atari. If you do, keep us posted.


I agree on first, and am also interested about latter!

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Eero Tamminen
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Re: Java in Atari

Postby Eero Tamminen » Sat Nov 23, 2019 3:46 pm

According to Wikipedia, last Kaffe release was in 2008. And it hasn't been in Debian for a long time.

Latest Debian m68k OpenJDK is here though:
http://ftp.ports.debian.org/debian-port ... penjdk-14/

To run that you'll need at least X11 libraries and rest of m68k Debian. You'll need quite a bit of fast-RAM to be able to run Debian too (I'd say 64MB, whereas for plain m68k Linux v5.x + shell about 8MB of ST-RAM is enough).

If you want to try m68k Debian, I'd recommend doing install in Aranym, and once you've configured it to your liking, trying that on real HW. At that point you could also try building more optimal m68k Linux kernel, one that has just the features your setup needs.

(If one is running Linux, some cheap ARM board would nowadays be much better for it, but at least one would be able to brag about running Linux stuff on real m68k HW. :-))

For non-expanded Atari machines, more realistic Java-like runtime alternative could be porting something like TinyVM to m68k: http://tinyvm.sourceforge.net/, but then I'd rather switch language too, e.g. to Lua: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lua_(programming_language)


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