Geneva

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bid
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Re: Geneva

Postby bid » Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:28 pm

I love Magic, but as Joska says, its no good for some programs, is no longer supported, can mess up the file system (occasionally), and will never be developed to support new improvements/compatibility.

Geneva could be an ideal basis for multitasking AES as it (a) would run on low end 68000's. (b) is low resource intensive, and (c) AFAIK does not effect latency or timings of which would be particularly useful in MIDI applications. I think also, there are some patches for MIDI software, and I just love on the Atari how the GEM system allows for its components, like AES to be compartmentalised. 3D buttons for example still rock my world, and I love in Magic how well a 8Mhz machine can work like a modern PC ... File copying in background, draggable windows that don't 'ghost', and it makes file operations so easy.

The Atari is longing for an up-to-date, non-unix based, simple but powerful AES that is not a resource hog, yet brings it into the league of what Classic Macs have been doing for years. With GCR on the 8Mhz machine, MAC OS runs better than the old classics, but the OS really shows what the ST is really capable of. ... For years, I used to use Classic Macs, and I always thought my humble ST was no where near as good ... And only recently realised it was more powerful all along (by about 3/4 of a MHz) and with higher resolution. However, the lack of hard-drive (I used M-Disk with 4MB) and lack of affordable alternative OS with multi-tasking really made life a pain. The other big pain was GDOS, in which I never actually got my printer (which cost more than the ST) to actually work properly.

What desktop shells are best to use with Geneva, that are lightweight?
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Re: Geneva

Postby joska » Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:32 pm

The best lightweight desktop is TeraDesk. Actually, it's the only lightweight desktop...
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Re: Geneva

Postby wongck » Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:30 pm

I thought Geneva has a builtin desktop that looks quite good.
I was using it some time back (like 20+ years ago LOL ) and it was better than Teradesk.
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Re: Geneva

Postby joska » Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:33 pm

Geneva does not have a built-in desktop. However, Gribnif sold NeoDesk separately. Not a bad desktop, I even bought it back in the day.
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Re: Geneva

Postby DarkLord » Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:55 pm

Jo Even is right but it does have a "launcher", for want of a better name? that
let's you start programs and manage files 'n stuff, if I recall correctly. I think I
looked at it like that one time but like Jo, always ran it with Neodesk. I've still got
it setup on one of my Mega's, I think.
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Re: Geneva

Postby wongck » Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:05 pm

Ah yes... Neodesk. That's it. That name brings back the memories.
Not been using these 2 software for ages and it slipped my mind... must be getting less younger ha ha ha
LOL all I remember right now are the fantastic icons it has.
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Re: Geneva

Postby wongck » Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:08 pm

I remember Geneva as a competing multitasking OS with Mint back then, and Mint was on monster to run on my STFM.
STFM ran Geneva smoothly. STFM can't run MInt effective until I got my Falc actually.
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Re: Geneva

Postby calimero » Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:15 am

I also use Geneva with NeoDesk back in 90s and I like tidiness in every aspect of it
but Geneva was (or feel) slower than MagiC so I use MagiC most of time.

It would be great if Geneva could be modernized further!
I like MagiC on ST and Falcon but it is stuck in 2001.

Could XaAES or MyAes be fit with Geneva? Is there any sense to do something like this?
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Re: Geneva

Postby joska » Fri Jan 06, 2017 10:00 am

calimero wrote:Could XaAES or MyAes be fit with Geneva? Is there any sense to do something like this?


No, no sense in that :) They are all AES'es.

If Geneva was opensourced, it would be interesting to fix it so it works better on clones. It does not work correctly on my Milan and my FireBee. It would also be interesting to add some of the features from XaAES and MagiC, like the extended objects. However, one must be careful to not fill it up with features, as the one big advantage with Geneva is it's light weight.
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Re: Geneva

Postby wongck » Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:26 pm

Yeah, I too went over to MagiC as it faster than any other OS on the STFM and comes with multitasking.
And every time when some application crash, it spits out some words in German.... LOL no idea what it was it talking about.
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Re: Geneva

Postby mikro » Sun May 14, 2017 12:30 am

tenox wrote:He is also considering open sourcing all.

In case he has doubts and needs boosting his motivation: https://www.change.org/p/dan-wilga-open ... =718262426 ;)

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Re: Geneva

Postby KLund1 » Mon May 15, 2017 11:14 pm

I've wanted to try Geneva with Neodesk for a long time. I own a copy of each. But wading through the almost 300 page of manual between them seems difficult at best to work through. Dose anyone have a standard installed setup of both on a C: they could post here for us to try?
UPDATED: Falcon 030(FX-1)(CF int & removable SD), MSTE 4+PS3000 4160STE 2.06+HDFD STacy4-internal-USD 1040STFM+I.B.Driver-5.25"FDD 1040STF 1040ST 520ST-AdSpeed 400-48k 800+810x2+820+822+825+830+835+850, 800XL+IndusGT 600XL 130XE+XF551x2 Portfolio 1200XL APE(Warp+32in1 OS SuperVideo 2.1 256k RAMBO)+1050x2 USD'd+SIO2PC, PC1+PCH204+PCM124+PCF554x2

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Re: Geneva

Postby leech » Tue May 16, 2017 12:28 am

Does Geneva w/NeoDesk 4 work on a Falcon with Ct60e? I still haven't managed to get FreeMiNT working correctly yet.

I recall having Geneva and NeoDesk 3 and it didn't quite work well together, but I ended up getting out of the ST scene back in the day before I could get a hold of NeoDesk 4.
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Re: Geneva

Postby nagual » Wed May 17, 2017 10:48 am

KLund1 wrote:I've wanted to try Geneva with Neodesk for a long time. I own a copy of each. But wading through the almost 300 page of manual between them seems difficult at best to work through. Dose anyone have a standard installed setup of both on a C: they could post here for us to try?


Would You like to share Geneva manual with us ?
I think will be very interesting to read complete manual :-)

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Re: Geneva

Postby tenox » Fri May 19, 2017 5:49 am

An official update: Dan has heard and responded to the petition. You can read it here https://www.change.org/p/dan-wilga-open-source-geneva-neodesk/responses/38852. Also the hard drive from a build machine should be making its way to a data recovery company.

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Re: Geneva

Postby itaboy » Fri May 19, 2017 8:26 am

Great news!!

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Re: Geneva

Postby wongck » Fri May 19, 2017 1:41 pm

IDK.... over 100... Why don't someone just say 'hey Dan, Here's 150 bucks for the 2 software"
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Re: Geneva

Postby KLund1 » Sun May 28, 2017 5:34 pm

nagual wrote:Would You like to share Geneva manual with us ?
I think will be very interesting to read complete manual :-)


I though these were already out in the wild. Atarimaina has Geneva manual and disks for v1.02. I'll need to check if my version is different. There is no dump or manual from NeoDesk. I guess I have some homework today ;)
UPDATED: Falcon 030(FX-1)(CF int & removable SD), MSTE 4+PS3000 4160STE 2.06+HDFD STacy4-internal-USD 1040STFM+I.B.Driver-5.25"FDD 1040STF 1040ST 520ST-AdSpeed 400-48k 800+810x2+820+822+825+830+835+850, 800XL+IndusGT 600XL 130XE+XF551x2 Portfolio 1200XL APE(Warp+32in1 OS SuperVideo 2.1 256k RAMBO)+1050x2 USD'd+SIO2PC, PC1+PCH204+PCM124+PCF554x2

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Re: Geneva

Postby KLund1 » Mon May 29, 2017 2:57 am

Here is the program disk (zipped) for NeoDesk 4.02. I had a zip of 3.01 so i included it. I have scanned the neodesk manual, but it is 3.2mb and I can't upload it here in full. I tried Atarimaina but filezilla failed to retrieve their directory, so I guess they might be doing some maintenance there?
So I am just uploading here in 3 parts.
The copy of Geneva over at atarimania looks good. The the manual matched mine, but the it is a bit confusing about which disk to use. The latest version is 006, so we probably should be using that disk.
Combining the two look a bit confusing. It depends on your setup and wants/needs. I think a boot from HD for both with nothing else installed or running from the auto folder would be the most 'generic'
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UPDATED: Falcon 030(FX-1)(CF int & removable SD), MSTE 4+PS3000 4160STE 2.06+HDFD STacy4-internal-USD 1040STFM+I.B.Driver-5.25"FDD 1040STF 1040ST 520ST-AdSpeed 400-48k 800+810x2+820+822+825+830+835+850, 800XL+IndusGT 600XL 130XE+XF551x2 Portfolio 1200XL APE(Warp+32in1 OS SuperVideo 2.1 256k RAMBO)+1050x2 USD'd+SIO2PC, PC1+PCH204+PCM124+PCF554x2

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Re: Geneva

Postby Gaiyan » Mon May 29, 2017 3:30 am

Awesome! Thanks very much!
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Re: Geneva

Postby itaboy » Mon May 29, 2017 5:43 am

Great work, thanks

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Re: Geneva

Postby nagual » Mon May 29, 2017 7:54 am

Thank You KLund1, very nice from You :-))

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Re: Geneva

Postby KLund1 » Mon May 29, 2017 11:48 pm

Here is the box cover I have. They were selling both as a total system environment.
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UPDATED: Falcon 030(FX-1)(CF int & removable SD), MSTE 4+PS3000 4160STE 2.06+HDFD STacy4-internal-USD 1040STFM+I.B.Driver-5.25"FDD 1040STF 1040ST 520ST-AdSpeed 400-48k 800+810x2+820+822+825+830+835+850, 800XL+IndusGT 600XL 130XE+XF551x2 Portfolio 1200XL APE(Warp+32in1 OS SuperVideo 2.1 256k RAMBO)+1050x2 USD'd+SIO2PC, PC1+PCH204+PCM124+PCF554x2

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Re: Geneva

Postby tenox » Tue May 30, 2017 9:32 pm

Update: Dan's hard drive content has been recovered and it's en route to him.

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Re: Geneva

Postby mikro » Tue May 30, 2017 10:11 pm

That is one hell of an update. ;) So exciting!


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