VGA output questions and problems

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_MiSTer/wiki

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Peredonov
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Re: VGA and timing/sync settings for each core

Postby Peredonov » Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:41 pm

Adding to the above suggestions, for your PVM there should be 4:3 overscan, 4:3 underscan, 16:9 underscan, and 16:9 overscan picture modes, and h/v position adjustments in the geometry settings apply separately for each of those, so you can adjust those to have 4 "presets" for different vertical and horizontal positions. Many PVMs and BVMs also allow you to set h position for each channel, so you can technically have around 90 horizontal positions ready as well.

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Video issue in arcade cabinet

Postby TJ80 » Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:18 am

Hi,

I hope someone clever can help! :) For some reason I'm really struggling to get my MISTer working properly with the 15khz RGB CRT monitor in my Jamma arcade cabinet - my plan was to finally replace my old PC + ArcadeVGA combo. I have the v6 IO board and 64mb SDRAM module and can get everything working well over HDMI. However, I have two problems when hooking up to the arcade monitor:

1 - The green channel is entirely missing - red and blue are fine, green is totally absent.
2 - I cannot figure out the proper settings to get vertical arcade cores to rotate for my horizontal monitor.

The missing green signal is very odd. I am 100% certain that the cabling from the VGA connector all the way to the monitor is good as I have tried swapping the red, green and blue signals around - the MISTer is simply outputting nothing on the green signal pin when configured for 15khz output. :( I don't think it's a hardware problem, because if I reconfigure with scandoubler enabled and try on a 31khz VGA monitor the green signal is present and correct.

As for rotating vertical cores, the image is brilliant (apart from the missing green) with the default settings but vertical arcade cores are unusable and don't seem to have a rotate option. If I enable the scaler on VGA I can rotate the image, but I can't get a decent picture - anyone have a good custom video mode they can suggest?

Many thanks,
Tim

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Re: Video issue in arcade cabinet

Postby Sorgelig » Tue Feb 04, 2020 6:24 pm

TJ80 wrote:As for rotating vertical cores, the image is brilliant (apart from the missing green) with the default settings but vertical arcade cores are unusable and don't seem to have a rotate option. If I enable the scaler on VGA I can rotate the image, but I can't get a decent picture - anyone have a good custom video mode they can suggest?

you can't.
You need to rotate your monitor physically. This is how most arcades are designed. You've choose a raw video output (VGA), so you get what original arcades were output. More over - you will have to deal with the fact that some arcades are 90deg while others are 270deg.
There wasn't standard for arcade design, so don't expect any "common" standard for all.

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Re: Video issue in arcade cabinet

Postby TJ80 » Tue Feb 04, 2020 8:11 pm

Thanks - annoying but makes sense. Anything doable with the scaler?

If not I can live with horizontal only - if only I could get the green channel working!

Cheers,
Tim

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Re: Video issue in arcade cabinet

Postby TJ80 » Wed Feb 05, 2020 1:59 pm

A couple of updates having tried some suggestions from djlegion who has a video showing this working on YouTube:

- Tried changing the SOG switch. No difference, green still missing and no visible change to the picture other than shifting a pixel or two to the left.
- Tried setting ypbpr=1. The "static" pattern appears with green still missing, then the screen goes blank after a couple of seconds (no menu showing).
- Tried copying the MISTer.ini settings from djlegion's video, no difference.

So unless something has changed in the past year I can only think I have some kind of hardware problem - maybe on the IO Board. Does anyone know what might cause the green signal to be missing when set up for 15khz RGB but present and correct on 31khz VGA? I can't find any documentation about the SOG switch on the IO Board, is it suspicious that it makes no difference to the image? If set incorrectly would the monitor not lose sync?

Many thanks,
Tim

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Re: Video issue in arcade cabinet

Postby Sorgelig » Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:57 pm

There is no problem with green from MiSTer. Be sure you wouldn't be a first who notice the problem if there would be real problem with MiSTer. This is specific to your setup / something is broken.
I suggest you to try MiSTer on normal monitor or TV with RGB/VGA input. Then depending on result you will see if problem is in your MiSTer or Arcade monitor.

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Re: Video issue in arcade cabinet

Postby TJ80 » Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:29 pm

Thanks.

That's the odd part - green is working fine if I connect to a 31khz VGA monitor with scandoubler=1, which is why I assumed it was a problem with my arcade monitor or the Ultimarc JPAC I use to connect it. I even replaced the video op-amp chip on the JPAC (made no difference). That's when I tried swapping the R/G/B signals and confirmed that the JPAC and the monitor work fine but that there is no signal from the green pin of the VGA connector when outputting 15khz! If I feed the green output (pin 2 of the VGA connector) into the red or blue inputs (pins 1 or 3) I get nothing, yet if I feed the red or blue outputs to the green input I get a green image displayed.

I think the next step is to put a scope on the green pin to 100% confirm there's nothing there - perhaps there's something the monitor just doesn't agree with for some reason!

Cheers,
Tim

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Using MiSTer with a PVM

Postby antibolo » Thu Feb 06, 2020 6:09 am

Hello, first time poster on this forum, I bought MiSTer parts last year but then kinda got busy with other stuff, until now!

So here's the thing: I am planning on connecting my MiSTer to my Sony PVM 20M2U monitor. My PVM is hooked up to an elaborate setup of SCART switches and cables plugged into my various classic consoles (8 total, including a sweet consolized MVS), so I am already well set for taking a SCART input. On the MiSTer side I have the Super Expansion Board which has the VGA port.

From what I can gather from searching this forum, I ordered a "minimig" VGA to SCART cable from amigakit. And then in the ini file I've set "composite_sync=1" in preparation for it. I should be good to go I assume?

Now, I know that the PVM will only take signals in the near-15kHz horizontal range, which is not supported by all cores as they reproduce the actual frequencies of the original platforms. I understand that and it's fine, I'll still keep the HDMI output plugged into my modern HDTV for messing with those cores.

My only real worry is, should I be worried about any risk of damage to my PVM, should I accidentally run a non-15kHz core while my PVM is turned on, even for a few seconds? Obviously my PVM is a not-easily-replaced piece of hardware that is very precious to me and I'd be totally heartbroken if it were to get fried. Or is that just a silly thought? Hopefully it is! Thanks in advance for any feedback.

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Re: VGA and timing/sync settings for each core

Postby rashohyo » Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:08 am

Peredonov wrote:Adding to the above suggestions, for your PVM there should be 4:3 overscan, 4:3 underscan, 16:9 underscan, and 16:9 overscan picture modes, and h/v position adjustments in the geometry settings apply separately for each of those, so you can adjust those to have 4 "presets" for different vertical and horizontal positions. Many PVMs and BVMs also allow you to set h position for each channel, so you can technically have around 90 horizontal positions ready as well.


After several days trying to figure out how to set h position for each channel on my sony pvm 14m4E...and i’m not able to understand how to do.
It seems the only way to solve my problem...anyone here has a pvm?
Thanks

Peredonov
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Re: Using MiSTer with a PVM

Postby Peredonov » Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:10 pm

It should be fine. If you feed it an unsupported frequency it will either show a scrambled picture or simply fail to sync.

If you want to be insanely safe, you could put an Extron RGB interface in between, from which you can read the H and V frequency values and check if they are within the range supported by your monitor (which should be shown in the monitor's service manual). But this would be overkill IMO and would also require an additional D-Sub to SCART cable in your case. There's also this list you can check though it may be incomplete/outdated for some cores: https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_Mi ... patibility

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Re: VGA and timing/sync settings for each core

Postby Peredonov » Thu Feb 06, 2020 2:15 pm

rashohyo wrote:After several days trying to figure out how to set h position for each channel on my sony pvm 14m4E...and i’m not able to understand how to do.


I don't own your model so I can't confirm, but if it does have this setting it would be in the "channel configuration" or such submenu, where you can set the type of input used for the channel, its color profile, etc. If it's not there, the feature is most likely missing in this model. You still have those 16:9 picture modes, which by adjusting their alignment settings can work as 4:3 modes. If you need a lot of different horizontal positions, any Extron box with position shift knobs would be the better option.

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Re: VGA and timing/sync settings for each core

Postby rashohyo » Thu Feb 06, 2020 4:36 pm

Peredonov wrote:
rashohyo wrote:After several days trying to figure out how to set h position for each channel on my sony pvm 14m4E...and i’m not able to understand how to do.


I don't own your model so I can't confirm, but if it does have this setting it would be in the "channel configuration" or such submenu, where you can set the type of input used for the channel, its color profile, etc. If it's not there, the feature is most likely missing in this model. You still have those 16:9 picture modes, which by adjusting their alignment settings can work as 4:3 modes. If you need a lot of different horizontal positions, any Extron box with position shift knobs would be the better option.



Great! Thanks for the help. I have also a sony PVM 20L5 so i’ll check both monitors settings...
I’ll let you know
Thanks

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Re: Using MiSTer with a PVM

Postby antibolo » Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:34 pm

Ok thanks!

As for the supported frequency ranges, I tried looking for them, but to no avail. I do have PDFs of both the operating manual and the service manual, but neither seems to have that info. Or maybe I don't know exactly what to look? I'm expecting some kind of "horizontal: x to y kHz, vertical: x to y Hz" but that may be explained differently maybe?

This is what I'm seeing in the "picture performance" section:
For PVM-20M2U/20M2E
Normal scan: 7 % over scan of CRT effective screen area
Under scan: 5 % underscan of CRT effective screen area
H. linearity: Less than 5.0 % (typical)
V. linearity: Less than 5.0 % (typical)
Convergence
Central area: Less than 0.6 mm (typical)
Peripheral area: Less than 1.0 mm (typical)
Raster size stability: H: 1.0%, V: 1.5%
High voltage regulation: 4.0 %
Color temperature: D65/D93, selectable USER (3,200K–10,000K, factory setting is D65)

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Re: Using MiSTer with a PVM

Postby djsquare » Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:44 am

I have one of my MiSTers hooked up to that exact model of PVM using a gscart switch and have no problems. I mean I wish every core worked with RGB but all the ones that really matter work great. You can even get Gameboy Color to work with some special settings in your .ini but them LCD filters....ah yeah. Gameboy/GBA the the only exceptions where I would rather use HDMI over RGB. Anyway, you shouldn't worry about breaking your PVM if try to load the Vectrex core or something no compatible with RGB, the screen will just freak out

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Re: Video issue in arcade cabinet

Postby TJ80 » Sun Feb 09, 2020 7:50 pm

So I've made a little progress - bought an HDMI to Vga dongle to try the direct video mode and - lo and behold - glorious colour! So the problem is definitely with either my config (thinking not now) or my IO board. Looking at the schematics the green signal is a bit different to the red and blue, which just come straight from the DE10. If I don't need to use sync on green and just want a raw green video signal can I just connect direct to the DE10's GPIO pin in the same way as the red and blue signals?

Thanks,
Tim

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Re: Video issue in arcade cabinet

Postby Sorgelig » Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:30 am

TJ80 wrote:If I don't need to use sync on green and just want a raw green video signal can I just connect direct to the DE10's GPIO pin in the same way as the red and blue signals?

yes, you can. But Direct Video you already tried is better.

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Re: Video issue in arcade cabinet

Postby Threepwood » Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:13 pm

FYI:

I have the same issue that on VGA the Green Channel is suddenly gone (SOG OFF) or the image is too green (SOG ON). Weird enough only one of my MiSTers is having this issue, the one with an I/O 5.5. The newer one with an I/O 5.6 XL is still working fine.

Downgrading did not help, so I guess it is indeed a hardware issue.
2x MiSTer FPGA: [Official Stormtrooper Case, USB Hub 2.1 with Bridge Board, 128MB SDRAM, ADC, RTC 1.3, I/O v5.5] + [3D printed MiSTer XS Case v2, 128MB SDRAM, I/O v5.6 XL]

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Re: Video issue in arcade cabinet

Postby leejsmith » Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:31 am

Hi, did you make any more progress ? it looks like no luck so far since our email contact. I was wondering if you have any other VGA devices you can run through the jpac to the CRT or is that what you did with the hdmi > vga adapter ?

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Re: Using MiSTer with a PVM

Postby antibolo » Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:14 am

It's been more than a week and Amigakit still hasn't shipped my cable. Does anyone know if they're still in business or something?

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Re: Video issue in arcade cabinet

Postby TJ80 » Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:31 pm

I've fed the direct HDMI-VGA converter through the Jpac and that's working perfectly. So it's definitely a problem with my IO board or my Mister config! I suspect there's a hardware problem with the SOG circuitry on the IO board. For now I'm happy using direct video, but it's annoying not knowing what's wrong (plus with direct video I can't experiment with the scaler and rotating vertical cores)!

Now I just need to figure out why some Neogeo cores sometime have corrupted graphics (various numbers of reboots fix them, SDRAM tests fine...) and how to map the player 2 controls! Problems for another thread!

Cheers,
Tim

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Re: Using MiSTer with a PVM

Postby Sorgelig » Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:26 pm

antibolo wrote:It's been more than a week and Amigakit still hasn't shipped my cable. Does anyone know if they're still in business or something?

sometimes they are really slow

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Re: Using MiSTer with a PVM

Postby MottZilla » Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:33 pm

You could use a cable like this until you get one that would work with your SCART setup.

https://www.amazon.com/Feet-Coaxial-RGB ... 01FNALYLA/

or this shorter one:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0073DP4BC/

I use the MiSTer on a PVM with the 25pin CMPTR connector and just bought two terminal connectors and wired them together. No need for a fancy cable although it would be nice to get a SCART cable for it.

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Re: Using MiSTer with a PVM

Postby antibolo » Thu Feb 20, 2020 2:45 am

nvm it's shipped now

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Re: Using MiSTer with a PVM

Postby ChopstickSamurai » Mon Feb 24, 2020 8:20 am

I recently got the SCART cable from Retro Access and it works great with my PVM:

https://retro-access.com/products/mister-io-scart

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MiSTer and PVM resolution?

Postby gaijinretro » Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:13 am

Hello avid posters, knowledge providers and pros of all kinds ;-)

New to the forum, been an avid reader for a long time though.
:cheers:

I have finally bought my MiSTer and have an issue with my Sony BVM-14M4DE which I'd need help with.

After setting up the SNES core, I've setup the image and video proportions in the service menu for my NTSC games. That all works well.
When I change the Region of the core to PAL and start a PAL game, my BVM/PVM goes black, the red light above it lights up and it's presumably dead. I have to switch it off, wait 5-10 seconds and switch it on, after that the image of the running PAL game appears and it works.

What is going on and how can I prevent this? I have no idea if it's an issue with my mister.ini but just in case, I'll attach that to this post.

I hope, you can help me with that issue. Apart from that: a remarkable device with a great community.

Code: Select all

[MiSTer]
key_menu_as_rgui=0     ; set to 1 to make the MENU key map to RGUI in Minimig (e.g. for Right Amiga)
forced_scandoubler=0   ; set to 1 to run scandoubler on VGA output always (depends on core).
ypbpr=0                ; set to 1 for YPbPr on VGA output.
composite_sync=1       ; set to 1 for composite sync on HSync signal of VGA output.
vga_scaler=0           ; set to 1 to connect VGA to scaler output.
hdmi_audio_96k=0       ; set to 1 for 96khz/16bit HDMI audio (48khz/16bit otherwise)
keyrah_mode=0x18d80002 ; VIDPID of keyrah for special code translation (0x23418037 for Arduino Micro)
volumectl=1            ; enable audio volume control by multimedia keys
vscale_mode=1          ; 0 - scale to fit the screen height.
                       ; 1 - use integer scale only.
                       ; 2 - use 0.5 steps of scale.
                       ; 3 - use 0.25 steps of scale.
vscale_border=0        ; set vertical border for TVs cutting the upper/bottom parts of screen (1-399)
;bootscreen=0          ; uncomment to disable boot screen of some cores like Minimig.
;mouse_throttle=10     ; 1-100 mouse speed divider. Useful for very sensitive mice
rbf_hide_datecode=0    ; 1 - hides datecodes from rbf file names. Press F2 for quick temporary toggle
menu_pal=0             ; 1 - PAL mode for menu core
hdmi_limited=0         ; 1 - use limited (16..235) color range over HDMI
                       ; 2 - use limited (16..255) color range over HDMI, for VGA converters.
direct_video=0         ; 1 - enable core video timing over HDMI, use only with VGA converters.
fb_size=0              ; 0 - automatic, 1 - full size, 2 - 1/2 of resolution, 4 - 1/4 of resolution.
fb_terminal=1          ; 1 - enabled (default), 0 - disabled
osd_timeout=30         ; 5-3600 timeout (in seconds) for OSD to disappear in Menu core. 30 seconds if not set.
                       ; Background picture will get darker after double timeout

; 1 - enables the recent file loaded/mounted.
; WARNING: This option will enable write to SD card on every load/mount which may wear the SD card after many writes to the same place
;          There is also higher chance to corrupt the File System if MiSTer will be reset or powered off while writing.
recents=0

; lastcore - Autoboot the last loaded core (corename autosaved in CONFIG/lastcore.dat) first found on the SD/USB
; lastexactcore - Autoboot the last loaded exact core (corename_yyyymmdd.rbf autosaved in CONFIG/lastcore.dat) first found on the SD/USB
; corename - Autoboot first corename_*.rbf found on the SD/USB
; corename_yyyymmdd.rbf - Autoboot first corename_yyyymmdd.rbf found on the SD/USB
;bootcore=lastcore    ; uncomment to autoboot a core, as the last loaded core.
bootcore_timeout=10  ; 10-30 timeout before autoboot, comment for autoboot without timeout.

; Option to load the custom font. Format is plain bitmap 8x8.
; Supported sizes of font:
;   768 bytes - chars 32-127 (only alpha + numeric)
;  1024 bytes - chars 0-127
;  1136 bytes - chars 0-141
;  up to 2048 - only chars 0-141 will be used.
; if first 32 chars are empty (for sizes 1024 bytes and more) then they are skipped.
font=font/myfont.pf

; USER button emulation by keybaord. Usually it's reset button.
; 0 - lctrl+lalt+ralt (lctrl+lgui+rgui on keyrah)
; 1 - lctrl+lgui+rgui
; 2 - lctrl+lalt+del
; 3 - same as 0 (lctrl+lalt+ralt on keyrah)
reset_combo=0

dvi_mode=0             ; set to 1 for DVI mode. Audio won't be transmitted through HDMI in DVI mode.

; 0 - 1280x720@60
; 1 - 1024x768@60
; 2 - 720x480@60
; 3 - 720x576@50
; 4 - 1280x1024@60
; 5 - 800x600@60
; 6 - 640x480@60
; 7 - 1280x720@50
; 8 - 1920x1080@60
; 9 - 1920x1080@50
;10 - 1366x768@60
;11 - 1024x600@60
;
; custom mode: hact,hfp,hs,hbp,vact,vfp,vs,vbp,Fpix_in_KHz
;   video_mode=1280,110,40,220,720,5,5,20,74250
video_mode=0

; set to 1-10 (seconds) to display video info on startup/change
video_info=0

; Set to 1 for automatic HDMI VSync rate adjust to match original VSync.
; Set to 2 for low latency mode (single buffer).
; This option makes video butter smooth like on original emulated system.
; Adjusting is done by changing pixel clock. Not every display supports variable pixel clock.
; For proper adjusting and to reduce possible out of range pixel clock, use 60Hz HDMI video
; modes as a base even for 50Hz systems.
vsync_adjust=2

; These parameters have the same format as video_mode.
; You need to supply both PAL and NTSC modes if you want vsync_adjust to switch between
; predefined modes as a base. This will reduce the range of pixel clock.
;video_mode_ntsc=0
;video_mode_pal=7

[Gameboy]
video_mode=320,8,32,24,240,4,3,16,6048
vga_scaler=1
vsync_adjust=2
vscale_mode=1


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