Wiki discussion

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_MiSTer/wiki

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Wiki discussion

Postby Sorgelig » Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:09 am

This is the topic about Wiki located here: https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_MiSTer/wiki

If you Want to add something to Wiki but hesitating, then you can discuss it here.
Also big changes in Wiki must be discussed here to come to some common conclusion.

Avoid to use links to external repositories, so stay inside the MiSTer-devel.
If you want to place the link in the wiki to external repository, then ask first. Keep in mind, it's MiSTer Wiki and should be focused on MiSTer.

Currently Wiki editing is opened for all github users.

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Re: Wiki discussion

Postby tenshin2002 » Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:00 pm

I´ve only ben on the MiSTer Discord for one day but theres been serveral enquiries about the power supply for the MiSTer and what can be used. Its hard to find the info if you dont have the origninal power supply to check. Would be useful to have this on the wiki:

MiSTer uses a 5v power supply, with at least 2A. The connector is a common coaxial (barrel) plug with 5.5mm outer diameter and 2.1mm inner diameter, center pin positive.

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Re: Wiki discussion

Postby Sorgelig » Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:45 pm

Yeah, that should be good - just need to find a good place to write it

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Re: Wiki discussion

Postby Newsdee » Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:52 pm

That seems like a good question for the FAQ?
https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_Mi ... -Questions

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Re: Wiki discussion

Postby Sorgelig » Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:32 am

Newsdee wrote:That seems like a good question for the FAQ?
https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_Mi ... -Questions


sure

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Re: Wiki discussion

Postby peepsalot » Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:43 am

I don't think I really need it anymore, but I was previously looking for a schematic of the SNAC interface board.
For a start, I found the github repo, and added the link to that on the User Port wiki page.

The SNAC repo doesn't seem provide a direct image of schematic though, and I don't seem to have the right software to view such schematic from its files (the IO board on the other hand has a very nice PDF export in its repo).
However, I was at least able to create an image of some of the relevant gerber layers.
So, here is the pic I made, in case it would be useful to have on the wiki (I don't think public users can upload images to wiki?):
Screenshot from 2020-01-08 02-16-50.png


Also I think maybe the list of supporting cores on User Port page is not up-to-date, but I'm unsure of the details. I think I read that Genesis and SNES are supported now at least?
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

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Re: Wiki discussion

Postby theypsilon » Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:59 pm

Is direct video still considered experimental? Otherwise I could try to gather some info for a Wiki article.

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Re: Wiki discussion

Postby Sorgelig » Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:03 pm

It's not experimental anymore. It's pretty much standard and supported by almost all official cores.
So wiki section about direct video is welcome.

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Re: Wiki discussion

Postby Sorgelig » Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:05 pm

SNAC board is simple set of level translators.

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Re: Wiki discussion

Postby tenshin2002 » Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:25 pm

I would like a more detailed explanation of the Mister.ini settings as there are many settings that are not exlained in the Wiki:
https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_MiSTer/wiki/Configuration-Files

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Re: Wiki discussion

Postby peepsalot » Sat Jan 18, 2020 9:06 pm

Sorgelig wrote:SNAC board is simple set of level translators.

Sure, but my issue was that the pinout mapping for USB3 port to HDMI is not defined in the wiki.

Or maybe more precisely, that the pinout for each core supporting User Port should be defined.
The IO board schematic labels USB3 pins with UART style names, but NES controller port, for example, is not a UART interface. Its just a basic shift register.
Its just not clear which pin is used for what purpose based on current wiki documenation.

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Re: Wiki discussion

Postby robng15 » Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:02 am

peepsalot wrote:
Sorgelig wrote:SNAC board is simple set of level translators.

Sure, but my issue was that the pinout mapping for USB3 port to HDMI is not defined in the wiki.

Or maybe more precisely, that the pinout for each core supporting User Port should be defined.
The IO board schematic labels USB3 pins with UART style names, but NES controller port, for example, is not a UART interface. Its just a basic shift register.
Its just not clear which pin is used for what purpose based on current wiki documenation.


I got one of these as a breakout board for the USB3 port. I'm presently trying something outside of the MiSTer framework, but the USB3 looking port is wired as a GPIO port, from what I've found.

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Re: Wiki discussion

Postby robng15 » Sun Jan 19, 2020 3:27 pm

Trying to attach again... One of these :shrug:

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Re: Wiki discussion

Postby ChocoboTime » Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:17 pm

Sorgelig, amazing update today!

However, u-boot.txt is not enabled by default. Was it on purpose?
The only thing that we need to do is remove example at the end and just reboot to experience the usbhid.jspoll=1 and xpad.cpoll=1 magic?

Thanks for the hardwork!

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Re: Wiki discussion

Postby Sorgelig » Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:56 pm

ChocoboTime wrote:However, u-boot.txt is not enabled by default. Was it on purpose?
The only thing that we need to do is remove example at the end and just reboot to experience the usbhid.jspoll=1 and xpad.cpoll=1 magic?

please keep this topic for Wiki discussion.
Yes, it's not enabled by default on purpose as it puts joystick into undocumented mode and potentially may harm it.

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Re: Wiki discussion

Postby Newsdee » Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:56 am

I thought it may be useful to add usage instructions for computer cores.
Since it's core specific, I suppose the best location is not the wiki but perhaps the readme.md file?

Another topic that could be useful is a list of recommended games to try,
albeit that list can be highly subjective so I wouldn't think the central wiki is the best place for it.
Maybe, at most, a .txt file alongside the readme.md?

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Re: Wiki discussion

Postby Sorgelig » Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:27 pm

quick google for "best <computer/console name> games" give you enough names.

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Re: Wiki discussion

Postby flenst111 » Sat Jan 25, 2020 11:00 am

Newsdee wrote:I thought it may be useful to add usage instructions for computer cores.
Since it's core specific, I suppose the best location is not the wiki but perhaps the readme.md file?

Another topic that could be useful is a list of recommended games to try,
albeit that list can be highly subjective so I wouldn't think the central wiki is the best place for it.
Maybe, at most, a .txt file alongside the readme.md?


I would like to have all this informations about using and developing Linux for Mister, the cores at one place. For me it would be a great help. If there are other websides with information about the cores, they could been linked from the WIKI. But if you are new to Mister and the special cores you have to google and you find sides, which don't really help newcomers to configure the cores, their disks, their programms right.

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Re: Wiki discussion

Postby Sorgelig » Sat Jan 25, 2020 2:56 pm

Advertising either of retro system is out of MiSTer task. The main idea is that you had some computer/console in the past and now can use it in the MiSTer. If you don't know some retro system then either don't use it, or you have a whole Google and Wikipedia to study the system. MiSTer's Wiki cannot provide the whole information just in a one small place.

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Re: Wiki discussion

Postby dshadoff » Sat Jan 25, 2020 6:50 pm

As I am building my system and boards, I am finding several topics which are not clear in the Wiki pages, and could benefit from clarification.
Some of the answers can be found by searching through many topics of discussion, and some remain unclear even after that; if the Wiki is there to help prevent confusion, it would help to put these items in the Wiki summaries.

Setup-Guide:
1) The section of "Get a core" could be improved by using an example of a core which does not require SDRAM. Some people may receive their DE10-Nano before they can obtain the SDRAM, and may wish to prepare while waiting for the SDRAM to arrive (or to build themselves). They are also unlikely (at first) to know which cores require SDRAM, so perhaps including a link to that page would be helpful.
2) I found that the SD Card utility created a couple of *.ini files as *.example, and the Wiki failed to identify that these should be renamed - referencing this step as a "Following Step" after the initial test (which would not work without the rename).

IO-Board-Assembly
1) Might be helpful to show polarity for electrolytics and LEDs (but the user can find this info with some effort)
2) The components list is very helpful, but the parts listed for P1 and P7/P9 seem to indicate that this board will be mounted quite a distance away from the DE10-Nano. Although everybody indeed has the option to remodel at their will, I suspect that >90% of people use the same height, and it would be very helpful to indicate a "standard" mounting distance between boards. For example, after looking at the connections between boards, I think that the existing 14mm standoffs are likely "standard" between the DE10-Nano and IO Board, but the P1 & P7 parts listed here indicate that it would be more like 24mm... This is important so that people making their own board know what type of mounting hardware they should get.
3) There seems to be very little information about the "optional" portions of the board which are often listed as "DNI". For example, JP_SOG on this board. If it is not to be installed, why is it in the diagram ?

USB-Hub-Assembly
This board is fairly straightforward except for three things, which I feel should be expanded on the Wiki:
1) Supplying power to the hub. The discussion thread has this topic as a recurring theme; if the Wiki page spent a small amount of effort on the topic, it would likely not come up in discussion so often. Also, the multiple options for USB connection between boards may all be equivalent (or may not...), but it would be helpful to state this clearly.
2) VBUS Control. While optional (at least on the v2.1 board), it causes some confusion. Not because of the parts, but rather the jumpers/0-ohm resistors. As I understand it, implementing without VBUS control should have R13 = 0-ohm, JP1 to be 0-ohm, and JP3 to be 0-ohm (based on notes on the schematic... It would be more clear if they were all in the same note).
3) Again, "standard" spacing between this board and the DE10-Nano... I realize that this is even more flexible on the USB board because of the barrel connector being an optional power feed, but perhaps this should be called out. It is likely that they are 10mm "without barrel" and 14mm "with barrel", but it's not really clear. I feel that case makers should also be stating the expected board spacing to avoid confusion.

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Re: Wiki discussion

Postby Sorgelig » Sat Jan 25, 2020 11:25 pm

dshadoff wrote:1) The section of "Get a core" could be improved by using an example of a core which does not require SDRAM. Some people may receive their DE10-Nano before they can obtain the SDRAM, and may wish to prepare while waiting for the SDRAM to arrive (or to build themselves). They are also unlikely (at first) to know which cores require SDRAM, so perhaps including a link to that page would be helpful.

agree
dshadoff wrote:2) I found that the SD Card utility created a couple of *.ini files as *.example, and the Wiki failed to identify that these should be renamed - referencing this step as a "Following Step" after the initial test (which would not work without the rename).

These files are for more advanced users. Beginners actually don't need to be aware of them. When user becomes more familiar with MiSTer and would like to get something extra, then at that time he will be aware what these files for. Putting snowball of options to beginner is not a good idea. Beginner with modified MiSTer.ini and non-working system is a worst case.

About DIY soldering in general: It's quite advanced area. It's NOT supposed to be done by newbie. So most your complains aren't applicable as experience in soldering and reading schematics are required prerequisites.
dshadoff wrote:1) Might be helpful to show polarity for electrolytics and LEDs (but the user can find this info with some effort)

it's shown.
dshadoff wrote:2) The components list is very helpful, but the parts listed for P1 and P7/P9 seem to indicate that this board will be mounted quite a distance away from the DE10-Nano. Although everybody indeed has the option to remodel at their will, I suspect that >90% of people use the same height, and it would be very helpful to indicate a "standard" mounting distance between boards. For example, after looking at the connections between boards, I think that the existing 14mm standoffs are likely "standard" between the DE10-Nano and IO Board, but the P1 & P7 parts listed here indicate that it would be more like 24mm... This is important so that people making their own board know what type of mounting hardware they should get.

There must be no plastic retention under the board. Actually those who dealt with Arduino shields know that pins should be bare. Probably more detailed photos are required to show the soldered pins.
dshadoff wrote:3) There seems to be very little information about the "optional" portions of the board which are often listed as "DNI". For example, JP_SOG on this board. If it is not to be installed, why is it in the diagram ?

DNI components usually required not to be soldered unless it's absolutely required. They usually add some flexibility to embed the MiSTer into some cases as they provide additional connections. Some options are reserved for the future. I don't see the need to describe it very precise. Also DNI components may disappear in the future revisions without notice, so future revisions don't have to keep the compatibility with DNI components. Basically it's also belongs to my note "About DIY soldering in general".

dshadoff wrote:2) VBUS Control. While optional (at least on the v2.1 board), it causes some confusion. Not because of the parts, but rather the jumpers/0-ohm resistors. As I understand it, implementing without VBUS control should have R13 = 0-ohm, JP1 to be 0-ohm, and JP3 to be 0-ohm (based on notes on the schematic... It would be more clear if they were all in the same note).

It's written in schematics. You need to understand that schematics IS the main document for soldering. Not Wiki.

dshadoff wrote:3) Again, "standard" spacing between this board and the DE10-Nano... I realize that this is even more flexible on the USB board because of the barrel connector being an optional power feed, but perhaps this should be called out. It is likely that they are 10mm "without barrel" and 14mm "with barrel", but it's not really clear. I feel that case makers should also be stating the expected board spacing to avoid confusion.

Standard spacing without DC barrel socket is 10mm. With DC socket - undefined. It's UGLY option. I've added it for flexibility, but don't recommend for good looking assembly. Probably standard 15mm (14mm is not so standard, actually) standoff should be enough for this option.

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Re: Wiki discussion

Postby dshadoff » Sun Jan 26, 2020 12:22 am

Sorgelig wrote:
dshadoff wrote:2) I found that the SD Card utility created a couple of *.ini files as *.example, and the Wiki failed to identify that these should be renamed - referencing this step as a "Following Step" after the initial test (which would not work without the rename).

These files are for more advanced users. Beginners actually don't need to be aware of them. When user becomes more familiar with MiSTer and would like to get something extra, then at that time he will be aware what these files for. Putting snowball of options to beginner is not a good idea. Beginner with modified MiSTer.ini and non-working system is a worst case.

I would agree with this, except that it didn't work until I renamed the *.example files into *.ini files (there were no *.ini files by default). I didn't intend to modify the files, but they needed to exist in order to run.

Sorgelig wrote:About DIY soldering in general: It's quite advanced area. It's NOT supposed to be done by newbie. So most your complains aren't applicable as experience in soldering and reading schematics are required prerequisites.

I basically agree, but I am familiar with these things; there are various different conventions in use around the world, and not all of them match. For example, marking "K" for the polarity of the diode... I would normally see a bar or better yet a diode schematic symbol in silkscreen. But as you mention, this is better to be in the actual materials than the wiki.



It might also be helpful to have an FPGA developers page, where the toolchain requirements are listed. I know that - again - this isn't for everybody, but for a developer it's always nice to be able to build a "known good" source tree with a minimum of startup effort. I did see some references to this in one of the threads, but a concise list would be helpful. (I am in the process of putting the tools together, but haven't yet tried a build, so I don't know if I'm missing anything yet.)

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Re: Wiki discussion

Postby Sorgelig » Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:03 am

dshadoff wrote:I would agree with this, except that it didn't work until I renamed the *.example files into *.ini files (there were no *.ini files by default). I didn't intend to modify the files, but they needed to exist in order to run.

No, you don't. You may delete these files - MiSTer will work without them.

dshadoff wrote:It might also be helpful to have an FPGA developers page, where the toolchain requirements are listed. I know that - again - this isn't for everybody, but for a developer it's always nice to be able to build a "known good" source tree with a minimum of startup effort. I did see some references to this in one of the threads, but a concise list would be helpful. (I am in the process of putting the tools together, but haven't yet tried a build, so I don't know if I'm missing anything yet.)

There is already page. At the bottom of right navigation panel in the Wiki you can find the link. It's supposed that developers would read more than generic user and eventually will read at least navigation panel till the end ;)

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Re: Wiki discussion

Postby dshadoff » Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:41 pm

Sorgelig wrote:
dshadoff wrote:It might also be helpful to have an FPGA developers page, where the toolchain requirements are listed. I know that - again - this isn't for everybody, but for a developer it's always nice to be able to build a "known good" source tree with a minimum of startup effort. I did see some references to this in one of the threads, but a concise list would be helpful. (I am in the process of putting the tools together, but haven't yet tried a build, so I don't know if I'm missing anything yet.)

There is already page. At the bottom of right navigation panel in the Wiki you can find the link. It's supposed that developers would read more than generic user and eventually will read at least navigation panel till the end ;)

I read that, but when the first topic was creating a new core, I thought that the initial steps were overlooked.
As I discovered, compiling the cores uses a much simpler toolset, and is much easier than I expected: just Quartus Prime 17.0 .
(But compiles are more time-consuming than I expected.)

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Re: Wiki discussion

Postby Sorgelig » Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:21 pm

by toolchain i've thought Linux ARM development.
Otherwise all you need is Quartus 17.0 to compile the FPGA cores.


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