Original analog video without I/O board? Possible!

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Re: Original analog video without I/O board? Possible!

Postby Sorgelig » Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:20 pm

recently got this converter:
cabledeconn.jpg

works great with all resolutions i've tried.
Several outputs allows to use HDMI output without reconnecting the cables.
I couldn't open the case - looks like hard glued. Probably it uses HDMI splitter chip with AG620x.. Or may be some other chip yet to discover.
DVI output is not true DVI. Just DVI connector with HDMI signals.
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Re: Original analog video without I/O board? Possible!

Postby witchmaster » Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:25 am

Sorgelig wrote:I'm testing on AG620x.
I would like to buy CM6616 based adaptor, but it's hard to find it..

I can give you one of mine, just PM me your address!

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Re: Original analog video without I/O board? Possible!

Postby watusi » Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:46 am

witchmaster wrote:Just tested direct video, damn that picture is clean! :) I'm having some issues though (using VGA to Scart cable on CRT TV). In several cores, all I get is a scrambled screen (according to the attached image). Cores that I experience this problem with include: Genesis, TurboGrafx16, Vectrex, MSX, C64, Atari 2600, Gameboy and BBC Micro.

Cores that work for me include: Minimig, C16, Atari 5200, ColecoVision, NES, SNES and SMS.

I ran the update script an hour ago, before testing the cores. Any idea what could be the problem?

direct-video-scrambled.jpg


I think I'm seeing the same issue with my Ugreen adaptor. At least I think I am (new to this).

I can get a clear picture in the menu and Atari 5200 cores but Genesis just gives me a blank screen. I don't have any SDram yet so my ability to test is pretty limited.

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Re: Original analog video without I/O board? Possible!

Postby warham » Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:49 am

Sorgelig wrote:recently got this converter:
cabledeconn.jpg
works great with all resolutions i've tried.


I almost bought that one in your picture but got this one in the picture instead. Not sure what chip it has or why the screen is shifting. Ill get one like yours. Seems there are several versions of the one like you got.
This is the closest match to your picture I could find for people with amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07GY4FP4T/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Image

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Re: Original analog video without I/O board? Possible!

Postby Sorgelig » Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:33 pm

warham wrote:I almost bought that one in your picture but got this one in the picture instead. Not sure what chip it has or why the screen is shifting. Ill get one like yours. Seems there are several versions of the one like you got.
This is the closest match to your picture I could find for people with amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07GY4FP4T/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Device from link looks same as mine.

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Re: Original analog video without I/O board? Possible!

Postby GoingDown » Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:20 am

Sorgelig wrote:This video is even better because you get 8bits per color while I/O board gives only 6bits per color. Audio output is also better than one used on I/O board.


OK, I have a question. Is there any practical difference on picture or audio quality on this or I/O board vga/audio out? I have an I/O board, but I am just thinking if I should get this kind of adapter and use it instead. So do you notice any difference?

Thanks

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Re: Original analog video without I/O board? Possible!

Postby watusi » Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:42 pm

Has anyone in the UK picked up a working adaptor? I've been through 6 or 7 and some are working in menu and atari5200 cores but I've had no look with Genesis, wondering whether it could be that my CRT is not liking the signal that core is throwing out?

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Re: Original analog video without I/O board? Possible!

Postby Sorgelig » Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:28 am

GoingDown wrote:
Sorgelig wrote:This video is even better because you get 8bits per color while I/O board gives only 6bits per color. Audio output is also better than one used on I/O board.


OK, I have a question. Is there any practical difference on picture or audio quality on this or I/O board vga/audio out? I have an I/O board, but I am just thinking if I should get this kind of adapter and use it instead. So do you notice any difference?

Thanks

why need to ask the question which is answered already in text you've quoted?

watusi wrote:Has anyone in the UK picked up a working adaptor? I've been through 6 or 7 and some are working in menu and atari5200 cores but I've had no look with Genesis, wondering whether it could be that my CRT is not liking the signal that core is throwing out?

may be your CRT doesn't like NTSC/60Hz?
Open adapter and check the main chip. If it's AG6200/AG6201 then it's correct.

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Re: Original analog video without I/O board? Possible!

Postby harryd91 » Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:32 am

watusi wrote:Has anyone in the UK picked up a working adaptor? I've been through 6 or 7 and some are working in menu and atari5200 cores but I've had no look with Genesis, wondering whether it could be that my CRT is not liking the signal that core is throwing out?


This one uses AG6200A according to Lindys website https://www.lindy.co.uk/cables-adapters ... ter-p11490 Bear in mind I have an older version from them that doesnt work though

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Re: Original analog video without I/O board? Possible!

Postby harryd91 » Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:34 am

harryd91 wrote:
watusi wrote:Has anyone in the UK picked up a working adaptor? I've been through 6 or 7 and some are working in menu and atari5200 cores but I've had no look with Genesis, wondering whether it could be that my CRT is not liking the signal that core is throwing out?


This one uses AG6200A according to Lindys website https://www.lindy.co.uk/cables-adapters ... ter-p11490 Bear in mind I have an older version from them that doesnt work though (product number 38191)

Amazon throws up some cheaper results if you search ag6200 as well

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Re: Original analog video without I/O board? Possible!

Postby GoingDown » Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:19 am

Sorgelig wrote:why need to ask the question which is answered already in text you've quoted?


Oh sorry, I just meant that is there any difference one would notice when using the adapter versus I/O board? I of course would like to have best picture quality available, but I am not sure if the difference is something I would notice.

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Re: Original analog video without I/O board? Possible!

Postby watusi » Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:48 pm

Sorgelig wrote:may be your CRT doesn't like NTSC/60Hz?
Open adapter and check the main chip. If it's AG6200/AG6201 then it's correct.


Hmmm.. its not that, I have a Japanese saturn and ps2 hooked up to teh same tv and they are fine. It's odd.

I received my 128MD SDRAM today so have been having a play. First off, its brilliant! I think I'm in love. Secondly I seem to have the same issues as witchmaster.

SNES, NEOGEO, NES, AMiga, ZX spectrum work brilliantly. I get no image on genesis, SMS.

I ordered 8 usb adaptors and they all either don't work, or have the same issues as above.

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Re: Original analog video without I/O board? Possible!

Postby MottZilla » Fri Oct 04, 2019 3:02 am

This is a really cool feature. I bought the Moread adapter off Amazon ( https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MS611LJ/ ) and have it hooked up to my Sony PVM's 25pin CMPTR port (RGB). I was able to use the NES, SNES, Genesis, TurboGrafx, and SMS cores with the direct_video option. I saw in the changelog topic Gameboy was mentioned have added support but I do not get a coherent image with the Gameboy core dated 20190929. Is it not 15khz compatible?

Will direct video be easy to add to the other cores or are there potential problems?

I haven't tested it extensively, only for a few hours, but in the cores I mentioned it seemed to work very well and looked clean. I'm happy it's an option since I don't have an I/O board yet.

Thanks Sorgelig.

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Re: Original analog video without I/O board? Possible!

Postby Sorgelig » Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:05 am

MottZilla wrote:I saw in the changelog topic Gameboy was mentioned have added support but I do not get a coherent image with the Gameboy core dated 20190929. Is it not 15khz compatible?

Direct video doesn't mean 15KHz. It's what original core outputs. Gameboy doesn't use 15KHz, is uses 9KHz for LCD. With internal line multiplication it outputs 36KHz, so you need VGA monitor to see it.

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Re: Original analog video without I/O board? Possible!

Postby MottZilla » Sat Oct 05, 2019 1:29 am

Thanks. I suspected that was the case from seeing a chart awhile back which listed various cores and which supported 15khz. I recalled Gameboy not supporting 15khz but wasn't sure if that had changed since then.

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Re: Original analog video without I/O board? Possible!

Postby Sorgelig » Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:46 pm

By the way, Direct Video respects DVI mode setting. So, if your converter has problems with some modes, you can try dvi_mode=1 - it may help.

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Re: Original analog video without I/O board? Possible!

Postby watusi » Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:14 pm

watusi wrote:
witchmaster wrote:Just tested direct video, damn that picture is clean! :) I'm having some issues though (using VGA to Scart cable on CRT TV). In several cores, all I get is a scrambled screen (according to the attached image). Cores that I experience this problem with include: Genesis, TurboGrafx16, Vectrex, MSX, C64, Atari 2600, Gameboy and BBC Micro.

Cores that work for me include: Minimig, C16, Atari 5200, ColecoVision, NES, SNES and SMS.

I ran the update script an hour ago, before testing the cores. Any idea what could be the problem?

direct-video-scrambled.jpg


I think I'm seeing the same issue with my Ugreen adaptor. At least I think I am (new to this).

I can get a clear picture in the menu and Atari 5200 cores but Genesis just gives me a blank screen. I don't have any SDram yet so my ability to test is pretty limited.


So I fixed this myself, after picking up an io board and having the same issue.
I delete the Genesis core files from /config and that instantly sorted the issue. I guess I must have changed an option when on hdmi that broke Scart.
Kinda wish I'd sorted this before getting the io board :)

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Re: Original analog video without I/O board? Possible!

Postby JonnyTenebrous » Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:24 pm

Hi. I have a noob question. I assembled my MiSTer about 3 weeks ago. I'm loving it, to the extent that I'm now heading back towards the rabbit hole which is analog CRT displays - I haven't owned one for more than a decade now. Also, I live in the UK but am from the US, so SCART/PAL/50hz is new-to-me. I'm going to pick up a c. 1998 21" Sony Trinitron CRT I purchased tomorrow, I've ordered the HDMI-to-VGA adaptor shown above in this thread by Sorgelig on Amazon (I don't have an I/O board), and have also ordered the 2m "MIST VGA to SCART" (Minimig SCART) cable from AmigaStore.eu.

OK, so here's the question. My Trinitron supposedly supports 60hz signal just fine, despite being a 50hz PAL TV. The "MIST VGA to SCART" cable documentation here on Atari-forum says that the signal MUST be 15khz and 50hz PAL. I'm not sure if that was just a limitation of the MIST or if it also applies to MiSTer using Direct Video. Will I, or will I not, be able to use this MiSTer + HDMI-to-VGA adaptor + Minimig SCART Cable setup to play retro console games using cores such as NES, SNES, Genesis/Megadrive, and Neo Geo at 60hz? If not, is there any way (such as by using an IO board) to get my MiSTer to output 60hz RGB via SCART.... or is that just not a thing that works with SCART?

Many Thanks

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Re: Original analog video without I/O board? Possible!

Postby witchmaster » Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:33 pm

JonnyTenebrous wrote:Hi. I have a noob question. I assembled my MiSTer about 3 weeks ago. I'm loving it, to the extent that I'm now heading back towards the rabbit hole which is analog CRT displays - I haven't owned one for more than a decade now. Also, I live in the UK but am from the US, so SCART/PAL/50hz is new-to-me. I'm going to pick up a c. 1998 21" Sony Trinitron CRT I purchased tomorrow, I've ordered the HDMI-to-VGA adaptor shown above in this thread by Sorgelig on Amazon (I don't have an I/O board), and have also ordered the 2m "MIST VGA to SCART" (Minimig SCART) cable from AmigaStore.eu.

OK, so here's the question. My Trinitron supposedly supports 60hz signal just fine, despite being a 50hz PAL TV. The "MIST VGA to SCART" cable documentation here on Atari-forum says that the signal MUST be 15khz and 50hz PAL. I'm not sure if that was just a limitation of the MIST or if it also applies to MiSTer using Direct Video. Will I, or will I not, be able to use this MiSTer + HDMI-to-VGA adaptor + Minimig SCART Cable setup to play retro console games using cores such as NES, SNES, Genesis/Megadrive, and Neo Geo at 60hz? If not, is there any way (such as by using an IO board) to get my MiSTer to output 60hz RGB via SCART.... or is that just not a thing that works with SCART?

Many Thanks

You will most probably be able to use 60hz using direct video or IO board output. All PAL CRTs I have tried have supported 60hz over RGB scart, even "cheap" ones.

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Re: Original analog video without I/O board? Possible!

Postby mrchrister » Thu Dec 05, 2019 7:00 am

Hey guys I tried this out today.
I just got my Mr. in the mail this morning.. Only tried the Genesis core and it worked great. the menu however was flickering and looked like it was outputting in 30 kHz. Is that normal behavior?

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Re: Original analog video without I/O board? Possible!

Postby mrchrister » Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:53 pm

Ok I can answer this one myself: I had to update menu.rbf and then it worked fine, no more flicker!

Just a couple more questions:
I'm planning of not getting an IO board. I just got the recommended UGREEN adapter and now audio works great as well! I must say the sharpness of the picture is better than through my ATI/Groovymame setup on the PVM 2030. Very nice!

I tried some arcade cores (tetris and Bionic Commando) but only got a flickering picture (probably 31khz). Which cores do currently support direct video?

Also wondering, @sorgelig writes:
If original core outputs 60Hz, then you have to delay the video by at least one frame. It's like a scaler, it needs to accumulate one frame so it will be able to repeat it 3 times. So it's definitely not for low-lag option.


Not sure I understand this.. so input lag is slightly higher using direct video than through the IO board, correct?

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Re: Original analog video without I/O board? Possible!

Postby MottZilla » Fri Dec 06, 2019 12:14 am

When I was using the Direct Video and HDMI -> VGA adapter it worked fine with the console cores like Genesis, SNES, NES, and TurboGrafx. But it did not work in any arcade cores. I believe support for it must be added to each core. The VGA via the I/O board is supported in many more cores and I'd recommend getting one. It might be feasible to construct a cable to connect to the GPIO header and get RGB output that way if you are handy at making cables.

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Re: Original analog video without I/O board? Possible!

Postby mrchrister » Fri Dec 06, 2019 5:28 am

MottZilla wrote:It might be feasible to construct a cable to connect to the GPIO header and get RGB output that way if you are handy at making cables.


It’s funny you mention that. A couple days ago I would have highly doubted that I could make a cable myself. But I picked up a PVM last week which has the db25 connector so I had to figure out a way to connect it and ended up soldering a db25 to vga cable. It worked perfectly on first attempt which was encouraging.

I wouldn’t mind buying a IO board but they are hard to come by it seems like...Is there a pinout schematic somewhere for the GPIO header for rgb and csync?

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Re: Original analog video without I/O board? Possible!

Postby witchmaster » Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:05 am

mrchrister wrote:
MottZilla wrote:I wouldn’t mind buying a IO board but they are hard to come by it seems like...Is there a pinout schematic somewhere for the GPIO header for rgb and csync?

You can use the schematic for the IO board. The one for version 5.6 is a bit easier to read, since it uses discrete resistors, version 6.0 uses resistor networks. https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Hardwar ... rd_5.6.pdf

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Re: Original analog video without I/O board? Possible!

Postby MottZilla » Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:18 am

Well if you made your own cable for the PVM 25pin to VGA (I did that too for Direct Video) then you should be able to take a ribbon cable that fits the GPIO header and wire everything as seen in the schematic for VGA video and then you shouldn't need the I/O board for analog video. I was close to doing the same before ordering an I/O board. If I'd had all the different resistors needed I might have made my own cable instead. I'm somewhat surprised no one sells a cable like this already. Although the I/O board has turned out to be handy for me. I like the fan and the 3 buttons on the MiSTer for the OSD menu and reset. But I can understand if you're trying to get out for as cheap as possible or you don't know where to get the board. I think if you look around you can probably find the I/O board somewhere.


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