Arcade cores

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BassKnight
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Re: Tiger Road corruption

Postby BassKnight » Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:16 am

Gazprom wrote:Anyone that has sprite corruption in Tiger Road, do you by any chance use a 32MB module with Winbond chip?

I have talked to Jotego and he thinks it's a sdram issue and maybe specific to Winbond ram chips.
Just trying to narrow it down.


I have a 32MB Winbond chip, but no sprite corruption. I'm using a DE-10 super expansion board from Jim Drew, not sure if that's important.

EDIT: further testing, I got sprite corruption :oops:

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Re: Arcade cores

Postby JimDrew » Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:59 pm

I would be surprised if a chip type made a difference. My boards test fine at 167MHz. I have used both Alliance and Winbond brands on my boards (based on availability of the chips), so there is a mixture out there. I will grab this core and try it on both brands.
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Re: Arcade cores

Postby Sorgelig » Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:12 pm

Winbond needs more time for RAS-CAS. Where Alliance is still working fine, Winbond fails already.

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Re: Arcade cores

Postby djmartins » Wed Dec 04, 2019 11:22 pm

I have sprite corruption with the Bionic Commander core too...

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Re: Arcade cores

Postby JimDrew » Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:33 am

Sorgelig wrote:Winbond needs more time for RAS-CAS. Where Alliance is still working fine, Winbond fails already.

Is this based on observations or datasheet information?

It seems that when comparing the datasheets side by side there are only a few differences between the two chips in timing:

Precharge to refresh/row activate command is a minimum of 15ns with the Winbond and 18ns with the Alliance.
Output Data Hold Time is a minimum of 3ns with the Winbond and 2.5ns with the Alliance.
Write Recovery Time is either 15ns or 12ns (depending on CL*=2 or CL*=3) with the Winbond and always 12ns with the Alliance.

All other parameters are stated as the same.

I could see the Output Data Hold Time being an issue if you were using a <3ns of hold time. What are you using for CL*?
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Re: Arcade cores

Postby djmartins » Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:08 am

I am one of the people with a 32Mb Winbond core that only has problems on the few arcade cores that others have problems with the same memory modules.
I have a new Alliance chip coming I can solder up to one of the memory PCBs I have and see for myself if it works.

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Re: Arcade cores

Postby Sorgelig » Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:43 am

JimDrew wrote:Is this based on observations or datasheet information?

This is observation from practice. Sometimes cores have to use out of spec timings to fit into design.

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Re: Arcade cores

Postby JimDrew » Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:54 pm

You can't do that in the real world or you will open yourself up to headaches! :)
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Re: Arcade cores

Postby djmartins » Fri Dec 06, 2019 12:17 am

JimDrew wrote:You can't do that in the real world or you will open yourself up to headaches! :)



Seems pretty real to me FFS.

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Re: Arcade cores

Postby JimDrew » Fri Dec 06, 2019 12:46 am

You can't expect a part to work outside of what its specifications are. Manufacturers change dies, masks, etc. and so what works today out of spec, may only work at spec with future versions. If you abide by the specifications given in the datasheet, then you should be guaranteed that any manufacturing process changes will not create a situation where your product becomes unreliable, creating recall and/or technical support issues. This is the real world way of developing commercial products.
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Re: Arcade cores

Postby crocky » Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:45 am

Yet out of specs timings is giving us all the cores. As an user I cant complain. Also MiSTer isnt a commercial product yet.

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Re: Arcade cores

Postby RabidWookie » Fri Dec 06, 2019 7:36 am

Is it possible to have cores like Dig Dug display vertically on a CRT TV at native output without turning on the framebuffer? Toggling the horizontal/vertical setting does nothing, it seems to be stuck sideways.

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Re: Arcade cores

Postby Sorgelig » Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:44 am

RabidWookie wrote:Is it possible to have cores like Dig Dug display vertically on a CRT TV at native output without turning on the framebuffer? Toggling the horizontal/vertical setting does nothing, it seems to be stuck sideways.

rotation is impossible without additional frame buffer. Use adaption of this game on some consoles like SNES, NES, etc.

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Re: Arcade cores

Postby RabidWookie » Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:02 pm

Sorgelig wrote:
RabidWookie wrote:Is it possible to have cores like Dig Dug display vertically on a CRT TV at native output without turning on the framebuffer? Toggling the horizontal/vertical setting does nothing, it seems to be stuck sideways.

rotation is impossible without additional frame buffer. Use adaption of this game on some consoles like SNES, NES, etc.


Ok, thank you. I thought it might be possible because I thought I had the framebuffer turned off on HDMI output and rotation works there.

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Re: Arcade cores

Postby DokDave » Thu Dec 12, 2019 6:47 am

I have the weirdest problem, I wonder if anyone has any suggestions...

I noticed that sound isn't working on any arcade cores - or rather, it would work intermittently, maybe one load in twenty or thereabouts. Otherwise, no sound produced at all. On console and computer cores, everything is fine. Sound works exactly as expected.

Now, I'm connected via HDMI and my sound is coming from speakers connected to the monitor, so I tried plugging headphones into the audio jack on the MiSTer and sound works fine, on both arcade and other types of cores!

So, for some reason, sound has stopped working on arcade cores over HDMI.

I can't see anything in my config. I don't have any arcade specific config sections, and dvi_mode=0 is set.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

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Re: Arcade cores

Postby djmartins » Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:37 pm

DokDave wrote:Does anyone have any suggestions?



What does the volume control show?
There is a screen where you can adjust and even mute HDMI audio.
Open a core, hit F12 and then left arrow.
If you have audio adjust enabled a down arrow there will let you change the volume.

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Re: Arcade cores

Postby DokDave » Thu Dec 12, 2019 4:00 pm

djmartins wrote:What does the volume control show?
There is a screen where you can adjust and even mute HDMI audio.
Open a core, hit F12 and then left arrow.
If you have audio adjust enabled a down arrow there will let you change the volume.


The volume control shows as full.

I've done some more digging and found:

1) Using a different cable to a different monitor (a TV in fact) results in arcade core sound working.
2) Using that different cable directly into my misbehaving monitor (with no HDMI splitter or speakers attached, just using the built in speakers) results in no sound for arcade cores. Console/computer cores continue to have working sound.

So, it would suggest the cable is fine, and that there's something odd about the monitor. But the confusing thing is that console/console cores all work. Is there something different about the way arcade cores send audio over HDMI that this monitor might be sensitive to?

Thanks for your help!

Dave

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Re: Arcade cores

Postby djmartins » Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:48 pm

DokDave wrote:So, it would suggest the cable is fine, and that there's something odd about the monitor. But the confusing thing is that console/console cores all work. Is there something different about the way arcade cores send audio over HDMI that this monitor might be sensitive to?

Thanks for your help!

Dave


Ok, some HDMI monitors have an audio input so you can run out of MiSTer and into that and get sound through the monitor.
Not sure about the code differences but it sounds like there must be some sorta audio difference.

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Re: Arcade cores

Postby zz99 » Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:56 am

Does anyone know how to get 1943 working ?

I've built all the roms and none of them work, just get garbage or grey screen.

Not sure where the rom should be copied to, I've renamed the rom created by the builder to a.1943.rom and copied it to the bootrom folder

Can anyone help please ?

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Re: Arcade cores

Postby mutmuthux » Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:57 am

zz99 wrote:Does anyone know how to get 1943 working ?

I've built all the roms and none of them work, just get garbage or grey screen.

Not sure where the rom should be copied to, I've renamed the rom created by the builder to a.1943.rom and copied it to the bootrom folder

Can anyone help please ?


i've found 1942 and 1943 sync freq doesnt play well with my TV or my CRT.
To play those cores i need to run the script that sets my video output to 'compatible'
If i run low latency it's a jittery mess that ends up crashing the output after a few minutes.
I'm not sure if that's the same trouble you're having. but worth a try to rule that out

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Re: Arcade cores

Postby zz99 » Fri Dec 13, 2019 12:33 pm

mutmuthux wrote:
zz99 wrote:Does anyone know how to get 1943 working ?

I've built all the roms and none of them work, just get garbage or grey screen.

Not sure where the rom should be copied to, I've renamed the rom created by the builder to a.1943.rom and copied it to the bootrom folder

Can anyone help please ?


i've found 1942 and 1943 sync freq doesnt play well with my TV or my CRT.
To play those cores i need to run the script that sets my video output to 'compatible'
If i run low latency it's a jittery mess that ends up crashing the output after a few minutes.
I'm not sure if that's the same trouble you're having. but worth a try to rule that out


Thanks, I'll give it a try, I'm currently running vsync_adjust=2, I'll set it back to 0 and see what happens

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Re: Arcade cores

Postby djrino » Wed Dec 18, 2019 12:36 pm

Hi
someone please help me how to run the arcade core please
i see details there

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Arcade-1942_MiSTer

but nothing work someone have a detailed guide? or can help
Tnx

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Re: Arcade cores

Postby sqwirral » Wed Dec 18, 2019 1:30 pm

djrino wrote:Hi
someone please help me how to run the arcade core please
i see details there

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Arcade-1942_MiSTer

but nothing work someone have a detailed guide? or can help
Tnx

Lon.TV goes through the process on video for a couple of arcade cores here https://youtu.be/2WUTFHu0QUs?t=3352
It's pretty simple, you can do it :D Just make sure you have the correct roms from MAME

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Re: Arcade cores

Postby djrino » Wed Dec 18, 2019 2:30 pm

Hi tn i take alook as come back to work tnx for now

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Re: Arcade cores

Postby twohig5 » Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:15 am

I really like the idea of using MAME roms for the arcade cores. is there any guidance on the proper versions romset it should be taken from?


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