It's no more a MiSTery

https://github.com/mist-devel/mist-board/wiki

Moderators: Mug UK, Zorro 2, Greenious, spiny, Moderator Team

slingshot
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1273
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:05 pm

Re: It's no more a MiSTery

Postby slingshot » Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:02 pm

Total Eclipse wrote:Any ideas about the image shifting across, I noticed that someone else reported the same thing?


I didn't experience such thing on my displays.

joska
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 4420
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:55 pm
Location: Florø, Norway
Contact:

Re: It's no more a MiSTery

Postby joska » Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:12 pm

I've been following this topic with great interest. Time to dig my MiST out of storage I think :) Does this core support 15KHz screens?
Jo Even

VanillaMiNT - Firebee - Falcon060 - Milan060 - Falcon040 - MIST - Mega ST - STM - STE - Amiga 600 - Sharp MZ700 - MSX - Amstrad CPC - C64

User avatar
Total Eclipse
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 253
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2004 2:20 pm
Location: Sheepy Magna, UK

Re: It's no more a MiSTery

Postby Total Eclipse » Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:44 pm

slingshot wrote:
Total Eclipse wrote:Any ideas about the image shifting across, I noticed that someone else reported the same thing?


I didn't experience such thing on my displays.


Unfortunately this is exactly the kind of issue that's almost impossible to diagnose.

I've had an OSSC on my wish list for a while, perhaps nows the time to invest.

Out of interest, does the video optput part of any core cone from a standard library (if such a thing exists), or is it developed for each core? I've never seen the issue with the original ST core. Similarly, Till's original Spectrum core worked fine on my TV's, yet sorgelig's Spectrum core usually gives diagonal interference lines for me.
Atari equipment all in storage - Now playing with MiST :)

slingshot
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1273
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:05 pm

Re: It's no more a MiSTery

Postby slingshot » Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:26 am

joska wrote:I've been following this topic with great interest. Time to dig my MiST out of storage I think :) Does this core support 15KHz screens?

viewtopic.php?f=115&t=37297#p379784
What do you think? :)

slingshot
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1273
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:05 pm

Re: It's no more a MiSTery

Postby slingshot » Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:27 am

Total Eclipse wrote:Out of interest, does the video optput part of any core cone from a standard library (if such a thing exists), or is it developed for each core? I've never seen the issue with the original ST core. Similarly, Till's original Spectrum core worked fine on my TV's, yet sorgelig's Spectrum core usually gives diagonal interference lines for me.

Scandoubler and OSD are almost the same in every core, but how the video signal is generated is up to the specific implementation of the (emulated/recreated/whatever) machine.

User avatar
Total Eclipse
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 253
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2004 2:20 pm
Location: Sheepy Magna, UK

Re: It's no more a MiSTery

Postby Total Eclipse » Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:54 am

slingshot wrote:Scandoubler and OSD are almost the same in every core, but how the video signal is generated is up to the specific implementation of the (emulated/recreated/whatever) machine.


That makes sense. I guess it's a fiddly thing to get right, I recall the number of releases for the Amstrad core some time ago that were focused on tweaking video output.

I'll be happily testing any new releases of your core, you never know if a minor change somewhere along the line will fix the issues I see.

In the mean time, please keep up the good work, it's very much appreciated.
Last edited by Total Eclipse on Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
Atari equipment all in storage - Now playing with MiST :)

slingshot
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1273
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:05 pm

Re: It's no more a MiSTery

Postby slingshot » Thu Aug 29, 2019 11:33 am

Total Eclipse wrote:
slingshot wrote:Scandoubler and OSD are almost the same in every core, but how the video signal is generated is up to the specific implementation of the (emulated/recreated/whatever) machine.


That makes sense. I guess it's a fiddly thing to get right, I recall the number of releases for the Amstrad core some time ago that were focused on tweaking video output.


As the video signals (especially sync signals) are faithfully reproduced from the original schematics of the main ASIC, it won't be changed. It can be some FPGA-specific thing which produces a glitch, or more likely something with your display which doesn't agree fully with the video. As it has the same timing as the original, it would worth to try an original ST(e) machine if it produces the same glitch or not.

User avatar
MasterOfGizmo
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1304
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:15 pm
Contact:

Re: It's no more a MiSTery

Postby MasterOfGizmo » Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:53 pm

joska wrote:I've been following this topic with great interest. Time to dig my MiST out of storage I think :) Does this core support 15KHz screens?


Sure. Even with YPbPr output on a modern Samsung flat panel TV. I am enjoying all those demos that way ...
MIST board, FPGA based Atari STE and more: https://github.com/mist-devel/mist-board/wiki

jamesrc
Atari maniac
Atari maniac
Posts: 86
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2005 11:33 pm
Location: Austin, TX, USA
Contact:

Re: It's no more a MiSTery

Postby jamesrc » Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:51 pm

joska wrote:I've been following this topic with great interest. Time to dig my MiST out of storage I think :) Does this core support 15KHz screens?


I'm using it exclusively on a 15Khz display. :)

User avatar
Total Eclipse
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 253
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2004 2:20 pm
Location: Sheepy Magna, UK

Re: It's no more a MiSTery

Postby Total Eclipse » Sun Sep 01, 2019 2:55 pm

I've done a little more testing this fine Sunday afternoon, and have one more issue to bring up.

Loading the Skid Row demo (by The Alliance) using TOS 1.2 or 1.4, and at multiple points when loading, possibly on every file access, the demo prompts for the disk to be inserted (despite the fact it's already in) before loading. This means that even loading the intro takes a while, and as for loading the main menu, it takes several minutes of alternating between "loading" and "insert disk" to get there.

Testing the same image in Steem, and it loads almost straight away.
Atari equipment all in storage - Now playing with MiST :)

User avatar
Total Eclipse
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 253
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2004 2:20 pm
Location: Sheepy Magna, UK

Re: It's no more a MiSTery

Postby Total Eclipse » Sun Sep 01, 2019 3:13 pm

I haven't had chance to test the Cuddly fullscreen on a real ST - I've pulled mine down from the loft and it doesn't recognise the internal floppy drive at all.

I have had chance to test the demo on the MiST on two separate TVs (15 kHz SCART) and they both have the same symptoms with the colour fading very dark within the first few scanlines.
Atari equipment all in storage - Now playing with MiST :)

sebdel
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 169
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2005 9:29 am

Re: It's no more a MiSTery

Postby sebdel » Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:19 pm

Total Eclipse wrote:I haven't had chance to test the Cuddly fullscreen on a real ST - I've pulled mine down from the loft and it doesn't recognise the internal floppy drive at all.

I have had chance to test the demo on the MiST on two separate TVs (15 kHz SCART) and they both have the same symptoms with the colour fading very dark within the first few scanlines.


The problems you are reporting are most likely fixed on github. I don't know if slingshot plans to update the binary any time soon, you may have to build from source if you want to test more.

edit: hold on, I'm talking out of my a**, there's already a 190823 release in mist-binaries. Is this the one you're using ? It fixed the dark fullscreen symptom for me. Let me check skidrow.

slingshot
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1273
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:05 pm

Re: It's no more a MiSTery

Postby slingshot » Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:49 pm

I repeat again: the back porch blanking is only implemented with the scandoubler (31 kHz modes). With 15kHz, you're at the mercy of your TV-set (as with the original HW). If it still dark, complain to the demo author :) Or make an YPbPr cable, and use it with the scandoubler.

User avatar
Total Eclipse
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 253
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2004 2:20 pm
Location: Sheepy Magna, UK

Re: It's no more a MiSTery

Postby Total Eclipse » Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:59 pm

slingshot wrote:I repeat again: the back porch blanking is only implemented with the scandoubler (31 kHz modes). With 15kHz, you're at the mercy of your TV-set (as with the original HW). If it still dark, complain to the demo author :) Or make an YPbPr cable, and use it with the scandoubler.


No problem, I'm getting a YPbPr cable made up this week, so for me the problem should simply go away. I'm going to try and get my ST working anyway, so will check it out at some point.

It's still pretty amazing that we're now at the point of discussing the occasional demo screen that doesn't work correctly. Back in 1989 the Cuddly Demo's were pulling out every trick in the book. To have them successfully implemented on the MiST is incredible!
Atari equipment all in storage - Now playing with MiST :)

sebdel
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 169
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2005 9:29 am

Re: It's no more a MiSTery

Postby sebdel » Sun Sep 01, 2019 7:30 pm

I have the same problems you have with skidrow. The loader is confused and asks for the disk randomly.

I also have problems with 0913 by live. This one is a bummer, it's just a (great) music disk, but past the intro it won't load any music.

I wanted to test more demos but they require being installed to a HD. How do you guys use your MiST? Direct SD mode? Cause I keep transferring using .st disk images between hatari and the mist and it's a little too close to the real hardware experience for me :lol:

User avatar
Higgy
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 158
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:38 pm

Re: It's no more a MiSTery

Postby Higgy » Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:17 pm

With the old ST Core there were links to an Atari forum with setup 'Satan' names HD images. They featured games and demos. They should work on this new Core.

I will have a hunt for the link.

User avatar
Estrayk
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 249
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2015 2:52 pm
Location: Spain

Re: It's no more a MiSTery

Postby Estrayk » Sun Sep 01, 2019 11:16 pm

Higgy wrote:With the old ST Core there were links to an Atari forum with setup 'Satan' names HD images. They featured games and demos. They should work on this new Core.

I will have a hunt for the link.


Yes, I'm the one who made those images, the last one for MiSTery here:
http://www.retrowiki.es/viewtopic.php?f=86&t=200035098
・Falcon ct60e・Atari MegaSTE ・Atari STe ・MIST ・

User avatar
RealLarry
Obsessive compulsive Atari behavior
Obsessive compulsive Atari behavior
Posts: 117
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2015 12:05 pm
Location: San Junipero

Re: It's no more a MiSTery

Postby RealLarry » Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:29 am

Estrayk wrote:
Higgy wrote:With the old ST Core there were links to an Atari forum with setup 'Satan' names HD images. They featured games and demos. They should work on this new Core.

I will have a hunt for the link.


Yes, I'm the one who made those images, the last one for MiSTery here:
http://www.retrowiki.es/viewtopic.php?f=86&t=200035098

Nice compilation, many thanks for that! But the disk access is terrible slow...all other game hdd's I have are running at normal speed. Any idea about that?
On the other side of the screen, it all looks so easy.

User avatar
Estrayk
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 249
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2015 2:52 pm
Location: Spain

Re: It's no more a MiSTery

Postby Estrayk » Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:35 pm

RealLarry wrote:
Estrayk wrote:
Higgy wrote:With the old ST Core there were links to an Atari forum with setup 'Satan' names HD images. They featured games and demos. They should work on this new Core.

I will have a hunt for the link.


Yes, I'm the one who made those images, the last one for MiSTery here:
http://www.retrowiki.es/viewtopic.php?f=86&t=200035098

Nice compilation, many thanks for that! But the disk access is terrible slow...all other game hdd's I have are running at normal speed. Any idea about that?


I have not idea, the speed is normal with my config. Try to copy only my .HD image, tos.img and mystery core to a SD without nothing more.
・Falcon ct60e・Atari MegaSTE ・Atari STe ・MIST ・

Chris23235
Atari freak
Atari freak
Posts: 62
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2014 6:52 pm

Re: It's no more a MiSTery

Postby Chris23235 » Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:22 pm

Estrayk wrote:
RealLarry wrote:
Estrayk wrote:
Yes, I'm the one who made those images, the last one for MiSTery here:
http://www.retrowiki.es/viewtopic.php?f=86&t=200035098

Nice compilation, many thanks for that! But the disk access is terrible slow...all other game hdd's I have are running at normal speed. Any idea about that?


I have not idea, the speed is normal with my config. Try to copy only my .HD image, tos.img and mystery core to a SD without nothing more.


I can confirm that the disc access is slow, I never used a HDD File with 2 GB, so maybe it's normal for such big drives (4x500 MB). You can see the slow access by loading the Chaos Engine. The sound that is played while loading hangs constantly and it seems the ST is only loading now and then small chunks of data.

User avatar
Estrayk
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 249
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2015 2:52 pm
Location: Spain

Re: It's no more a MiSTery

Postby Estrayk » Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:51 pm

my apologies, it is true, I can confirm that the disc access is slow. I´ll fix soon
・Falcon ct60e・Atari MegaSTE ・Atari STe ・MIST ・

slingshot
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1273
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:05 pm

Re: It's no more a MiSTery

Postby slingshot » Tue Sep 03, 2019 5:50 pm

Total Eclipse wrote:Loading the Skid Row demo (by The Alliance) using TOS 1.2 or 1.4, and at multiple points when loading, possibly on every file access, the demo prompts for the disk to be inserted (despite the fact it's already in) before loading. This means that even loading the intro takes a while, and as for loading the main menu, it takes several minutes of alternating between "loading" and "insert disk" to get there.

Fixed in Github. Unfortunately European demos and Electra still don't work (probably MFP issue).

slingshot
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1273
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:05 pm

Re: It's no more a MiSTery

Postby slingshot » Tue Sep 03, 2019 8:41 pm

sebdel wrote:I wanted to test more demos but they require being installed to a HD. How do you guys use your MiST? Direct SD mode? Cause I keep transferring using .st disk images between hatari and the mist and it's a little too close to the real hardware experience for me :lol:


I'm using zip2st for small content, or atari-hd-image for bigger ones (the later can convert a whole directory to a .hd image). These are utilities supplied with Hatari.

jamesrc
Atari maniac
Atari maniac
Posts: 86
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2005 11:33 pm
Location: Austin, TX, USA
Contact:

Re: It's no more a MiSTery

Postby jamesrc » Sun Sep 08, 2019 2:26 am

My slog through the POV disks has turned up something!

POV 7.

The Pro Replay demo. If you try to play the various on-demand samples F1-F5, the screen will start flashing as if it's depacking something, it'll make a lot of crunchy noises, and it will crash.

Tried in STe mode with 1mb RAM and TOS 1.62, and also ST mode with 1mb RAM and TOS 1.02.

Works in Hatari.

Here it is in the process of crashing:

Image

The other two demos on this disk work perfectly.

slingshot
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1273
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:05 pm

Re: It's no more a MiSTery

Postby slingshot » Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:45 am

I've opened an issue here for non-working demos:

https://github.com/gyurco/MiSTery/issues/3

Don't feel the force currently to start debugging, but still good to collect them. (Dreaming about some of you starts to use Hatari or STeem debugger to find out what the crashing demos expect). Actually I believe 3 out of 4 crash happens because something in MFP (which is only tweaked by trial and error).


Return to “MiST”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests