Can't find a US 2.06 TOS image

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Everett1954
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Can't find a US 2.06 TOS image

Postby Everett1954 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:21 pm

I have been trying to get a working US TOS image for 2.06. Even the one that are marked and listed as US turn out to be the UK version.

I tried them all and all I get is the PAL Video in OSD.

Can someone point me to a US working version or PM me the file?

Yes i have Google searched and tried all the sites.

Thanks

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Re: Can't find a US 2.06 TOS image

Postby Bikerbob » Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:10 pm

Are you looking for one you can burn to ROMs? or one to use in an EMU?

PM me and I can send them to you.

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Re: Can't find a US 2.06 TOS image

Postby joska » Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:15 pm

Have you checked this site? I just downloaded the US and UK ROMs from here and they are not the same. I have not tested the US ROM to make sure it really is a US ROM though.
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Re: Can't find a US 2.06 TOS image

Postby Everett1954 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 5:26 am

Hi Joska,

My Mac anti-virus blocks the site you quoted as having a virus. Have you tested the US one, Is it indeed a US TOS?

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Re: Can't find a US 2.06 TOS image

Postby joska » Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:14 am

Your Mac seems to be a bit paranoid :) US TOS 2.06 attached.

tos206us.zip
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Re: Can't find a US 2.06 TOS image

Postby Everett1954 » Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:26 am

So I just unzipped the file you posted and it is titled as a UK rom.

Where are the US ones?

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Re: Can't find a US 2.06 TOS image

Postby troed » Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:16 am

What do you mean, "titled as"?

It's named tos206us.img and booting it in Hatari indeed selects 60Hz videomode which is the main difference between US (NTSC) and UK (PAL).

/Troed

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Re: Can't find a US 2.06 TOS image

Postby joska » Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:37 am

Everett1954 wrote:Where are the US ones?


You have just downloaded it. Tested in Hatari right now:

us-tos.png
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Re: Can't find a US 2.06 TOS image

Postby ThorstenOtto » Sat Dec 23, 2017 10:42 am

troed wrote:which is the main difference between US (NTSC) and UK (PAL)./Troed


US roms are indeed the only ones where NTSC is set. That, a different display format of dates in the desktop, and small differences in the keyboard tables are actually the only differences between us and uk versions.

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Re: Can't find a US 2.06 TOS image

Postby Everett1954 » Sun Dec 24, 2017 6:38 am

Yes, indeed the file posted by Joska is a US 2.06 image.

With all the rom images I've been trying and with the renaming, I got a bit confused.

A lot of the sites have zip files labeled as US but when you unzip them they are UK rom (the giveaway is that they are 262KB)

Thanks for all the help!

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Re: Can't find a US 2.06 TOS image

Postby Everett1954 » Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:15 am

Ok, I have to retract the above statement.

Has anyone checked any of the so called US ROMs with the latest MIST core? Or am I doing something wrong?

They all show 262KB on my Mac when they are unzipped.

When I rename it tos.img and use it with the MIST core I only have a choice of 50 or 56 hertz PAL video.

I have the system as ST selected.

Why do I not have an NTSC option?

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Re: Can't find a US 2.06 TOS image

Postby DrOG » Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:41 am

If you use U.S. TOS the video will always be NTSC (640x480@60Hz). In this case switching the 'PAL mode' has no effect, you will not see any difference setting this option.

You can verify the video mode pushing 'info' on your display connected to the MiST:

640x480@60Hz: NTSC
720x576@50Hz: PAL 'native' mode
800x600@56Hz: PAL in 'VGA compatibility' mode
640x480@71Hz: B&W mode

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Re: Can't find a US 2.06 TOS image

Postby czietz » Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:01 am

Everett1954 wrote:They all show 262KB on my Mac when they are unzipped.


That's because Apple correctly (but maybe confusingly) uses SI unit prefixes. A file that is roughly 262000 bytes long will show up as 262 kilobytes. Whereas when there is talk about 256kB Atari ROMs, these are what the IEC wants to call kibibyte, i.e. 256*1024 bytes.
You cannot tell different countries TOS versions apart by the image file size, anyway, they all are the same length.

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Re: Can't find a US 2.06 TOS image

Postby joska » Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:36 am

Everett1954 wrote:When I rename it tos.img and use it with the MIST core I only have a choice of 50 or 56 hertz PAL video.


This setting is not used in NTSC mode, only in PAL mode. It allows you to use a 56Hz "PAL" when using a monitor that does not support 50Hz. NTSC is always 60Hz.
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Re: Can't find a US 2.06 TOS image

Postby leech » Sun Dec 24, 2017 5:13 pm

czietz wrote:
Everett1954 wrote:They all show 262KB on my Mac when they are unzipped.


That's because Apple correctly (but maybe confusingly) uses SI unit prefixes. A file that is roughly 262000 bytes long will show up as 262 kilobytes. Whereas when there is talk about 256kB Atari ROMs, these are what the IEC wants to call kibibyte, i.e. 256*1024 bytes.
You cannot tell different countries TOS versions apart by the image file size, anyway, they all are the same length.


I absolutely hate that crap. From what I could tell, they changed that because the hard drive manufacturers wanted to skimp on sizes. So a 1TB drive is actually 1000GB instead of the old ways where everything was a broken out into 1024. The most frustrating thing for me was that they then changed 1024 to the ibi, instead of applying that to the 1000 and keeping metric names.

Worse is that different operating systems treat the sizes differently, as you pointed out.
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Re: Can't find a US 2.06 TOS image

Postby wongck » Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:59 pm

leech wrote:I absolutely hate that crap. From what I could tell, they changed that because the hard drive manufacturers wanted to skimp on sizes. So a 1TB drive is actually 1000GB instead of the old ways where everything was a broken out into 1024. The most frustrating thing for me was that they then changed 1024 to the ibi, instead of applying that to the 1000 and keeping metric names.

I tot they did it because not everyone is a computer nerd and everyday kilo means 1000 as in km. So it would confuse the _hit out of ordinary people.
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Re: Can't find a US 2.06 TOS image

Postby Everett1954 » Mon Dec 25, 2017 6:42 am

Thanks DrOG, you are correct the US TOS 2.06 does display in 640 x480. My TV set OSD displays the resolution.

I kept looking at MIST OSD hoping to see an NTSC item and not the PAL 50/56 setting to change, So I thought the IMG was still a UK rom.

Thanks for setting me straight!

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Re: Can't find a US 2.06 TOS image

Postby leech » Wed Dec 27, 2017 6:05 am

wongck wrote:
leech wrote:I absolutely hate that crap. From what I could tell, they changed that because the hard drive manufacturers wanted to skimp on sizes. So a 1TB drive is actually 1000GB instead of the old ways where everything was a broken out into 1024. The most frustrating thing for me was that they then changed 1024 to the ibi, instead of applying that to the 1000 and keeping metric names.

I tot they did it because not everyone is a computer nerd and everyday kilo means 1000 as in km. So it would confuse the _hit out of ordinary people.


I had read it was basically how hard drive manufacturer's started trimming things down. That's why you get a '1TB' drive, and it ends up formatting at 935GB (or something like that). I think they started doing it right around the 50-100gb size drives, thought that's just a guess.

ha, normal every day people don't know what a Terabyte is either way. They just know what the computer guy at the computer store tells them.
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Re: Can't find a US 2.06 TOS image

Postby tzok » Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:03 pm

For RGB output there is no PAL or NTSC... I don't know much about MIST, but maybe the output isn't direct. My scandoubler alse always outputs 640x480 50Hz.

As with the capacities - they have been lying since a long time: the 1.44MB floppy disk in no way had 1.44MB - it had 1440kiB, so 1.47MB or 1.41MiB.

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Re: Can't find a US 2.06 TOS image

Postby leech » Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:50 pm

tzok wrote:For RGB output there is no PAL or NTSC... I don't know much about MIST, but maybe the output isn't direct. My scandoubler alse always outputs 640x480 50Hz.

As with the capacities - they have been lying since a long time: the 1.44MB floppy disk in no way had 1.44MB - it had 1440kiB, so 1.47MB or 1.41MiB.


Some of that was based on the floppy disks themselves. I remember formatting one brand that actually only gave about 1.2mb.
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Re: Can't find a US 2.06 TOS image

Postby tzok » Fri Sep 28, 2018 8:41 pm

leech wrote:Some of that was based on the floppy disks themselves.

Sometimes memories are deceptive ;)
DS DD - 2 sides * 80 tracks * 9 sectors per track * 512 bytes per sector = 737280 bytes (720 KiB)
DS HD - 2 sides * 80 tracks * 18 sectors per track * 512 bytes per sector = 1474560 bytes (1440 KiB = 1.406MiB OR 1.47MB but in no way 1.44MB)
These are RAW formatted disc capacities, NOT counting file system structures. The unformatted capacity was ~1MiB for DD, and ~2MiB for HD.
This is because real track length is much longer. Physically DD track has much more than 4608 bytes (actually over 6000 bytes). You may fit there 11 sectors and all the track/sector headers and gaps.


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