SAM Coupe core for MiST

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Newsdee
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Re: SAM Coupe core for MiST

Postby Newsdee » Thu Jun 09, 2016 3:39 am

NML32 wrote:Is there a downside to removing R21 could it affect any of the other MiST cores?


Referring to that discussion, I can see a downside to remove it if you use headphones directly with the MIST. I do so will keep it for now...

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Re: SAM Coupe core for MiST

Postby schombi » Thu Jun 09, 2016 4:09 am

Again, many thanks for working on the SAM core.

Would it be possible to add a "reset" to the OSD? Some cores feature that and I found it quite handy.

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Re: SAM Coupe core for MiST

Postby SirDavid » Thu Jun 09, 2016 5:33 am

Sorgelig wrote:Not sure if option to disable 4MB required or not. Some boots on disks check extended memory and take extra several seconds upon boot while not really use extended memory.


I prefer to have an option and save those several seconds.

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Re: SAM Coupe core for MiST

Postby Sorgelig » Thu Jun 09, 2016 6:06 am

SirDavid wrote:I prefer to have an option and save those several seconds.

Ok. Since i have free slots in OSD menu, i can add it. At least till more important options will occupy OSD.

Since you should know SAM Coupe very well, what features you could suggest to implement besides CPU speed and disk writes (i will try to implement write but it a little challenging)?
What do you think about mouse? Is there software requiring the mouse?

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Re: SAM Coupe core for MiST

Postby SirDavid » Thu Jun 09, 2016 8:25 am

Disk writes would be great.
Of course there is software where you can use mouse, for example games: Lemmings, Batz'n'Balls etc.
Other ideas of extra features are: Atom and/or Atom Lite harddisk support (.hdf files), stereo SAMDAC and/or mono DAC on LPT port (option to switch?). Personally I will miss AY support. I don't know if anybody beside me would use it, but I made and sold a couple back in the 90's. My AY uses port #DF instead of #FD, which is unfortunately MIDI port in SAM.

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Re: SAM Coupe core for MiST

Postby Sorgelig » Thu Jun 09, 2016 10:03 am

1) About mouse:
As far as i know it's mapped to cursor keys. Is there any software requires the mouse and cannot work with cursor keys? If yes, please give me the name (and if possible links) to these software. If there is a test software for mouse, then it would be perfect. I need some software to test and don't mess with cursor keys, so i will see how good/bad my mouse code.

2) About hard disks:
As far as i know this is just set of small partitions emulating floppy disks. So, what is the difference from current way where you can choose the floppy from OSD? Remember, you can have sub-folders to organize your floppy library.

3) It's not a problem to add AY again, but where is the software for this?

4) Can you provide the link for technical info about SAMDAC and LPTDAC? I also need software using both of these DACs.
There is a problem to have many audio sources because at the final audio mix i have to reserve enough bits to sum all sounds.
For example, i have 8-bit of SAA1099 and 8-bit DAC. As a result i will need to reserve 9-bit for final mixer. It means, SAA1099 (or DAC) will be twice quieter than if only single SAA1099 exist. And if i have 4 audio devices, then each one will be 4 times quieter.
It is possible to add enable/disable option but it's not a good way either.
In one core i did auto detect for used audio device and switch between them to output only one.

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Re: SAM Coupe core for MiST

Postby SirDavid » Thu Jun 09, 2016 12:56 pm

2) About hard disks:
You are right, hard disk is just a set of small partitions. But you can change the partition from SAM BASIC. It gives you some advantages. You can boot to the menu allowing to select and load proper disk by pressing just one key. Or you can load multi-disk program without changing the disks manually. The loader can change disks by itself as needed. Hard disk is also faster.

3) One of my disks with ZX Spectrum + AY emulator (Lerm Software ZX Spectrum Emulator modified by me):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/23shl3g2dujxvcd/D09_AY.dsk?dl=0

The rest I will answer later.

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Re: SAM Coupe core for MiST

Postby Sorgelig » Thu Jun 09, 2016 1:39 pm

SirDavid wrote:3) One of my disks with ZX Spectrum + AY emulator (Lerm Software ZX Spectrum Emulator modified by me):

wait... You want to say you simply use software inside ZX emulator? Why you do this instead using ZX core?

SirDavid wrote:Hard disk is also faster.

This is not relevant because both FDD and HDD are on the same SD card.

SirDavid wrote:You can boot to the menu allowing to select and load proper disk by pressing just one key.

OSD also provides menu where you select the disk and then press enter to run it.

So, the only advantage of HDD is multi-disk apps where you don't need to change the disk manually. But honestly it looks like magic. How app will know which disk to load next?
By the way, aren't multi-disk apps aware of second drive provided by core?

There is one serious disadvantage of such set of small disks is complexity of management. If you use floppy disk images as files, then you can add/remove them as files, where managing HDD requires special software.

By the way, i'm working on ability to write to disks. Only simple MGT format will be writable because both SDF and EDSK aren't aligned to 512b boundaries. Also variable and mixed sector sizes will make writing too complex.
There is limitation in MiST firmware: only one image can be opened for writing. So, only one drive will be able to write. So, i'm thinking which drive is better for writing. First or Second?

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Re: SAM Coupe core for MiST

Postby Sorgelig » Thu Jun 09, 2016 3:14 pm

Can you recommend application to test writing? I'm not familiar with SAM Coupe software.
It can be some file copy program or similar.

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Re: SAM Coupe core for MiST

Postby SirDavid » Thu Jun 09, 2016 4:14 pm

Sorgelig wrote:wait... You want to say you simply use software inside ZX emulator? Why you do this instead using ZX core?

Why? Because I can :D And I like it! I have my own collection of ZX Spectrum demos and games on SAM Coupe disks. I spent a lot of time on them in the 90's. For me it's more fun than ZX core. Besides, why have you done real CPU frequency for ZX mode? It's great, but why use it instead of ZX core? ;)

Sorgelig wrote:
SirDavid wrote:You can boot to the menu allowing to select and load proper disk by pressing just one key.

OSD also provides menu where you select the disk and then press enter to run it.

No, that's not it. You can prepare the menu for example: A: game1 B: game2 C:demo1 D:demo2 and so on. People really do have such menus on their harddisks. You don't have to select the disk using cursor keys, you just press ONE key.

Sorgelig wrote:So, the only advantage of HDD is multi-disk apps where you don't need to change the disk manually. But honestly it looks like magic. How app will know which disk to load next?

These hdd disks (partitions) are called records in B-DOS. They have numbers and names. You can change the record by " RECORD "name" " and names could be "demo_a_disk2", "demo_a_disk3" and so on.

Sorgelig wrote:By the way, aren't multi-disk apps aware of second drive provided by core?
When you have 4MB of external RAM, two disk drives are not enough ;)

Sorgelig wrote:...where managing HDD requires special software.

This software is B-DOS and i't quite fun to use. You have new DOS commands to manage records.

Sorgelig wrote:So, i'm thinking which drive is better for writing. First or Second?

First!

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Re: SAM Coupe core for MiST

Postby SirDavid » Thu Jun 09, 2016 4:24 pm

Sorgelig wrote:Can you recommend application to test writing? I'm not familiar with SAM Coupe software.
It can be some file copy program or similar.

You can simply use BASIC (SAMDOS) commands. Insert the disk to the first drive and type 'boot 1' to load DOS without autorun. Then just type ' save "prog" ' for saving basic program (it can be even empty) or ' save "screen" screen$ ' to save screen. You can type dir or dir1 to check what is on the disk. To delete a file use ' ERASE "name" '.

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Re: SAM Coupe core for MiST

Postby SirDavid » Thu Jun 09, 2016 4:38 pm

Sorgelig wrote:1) About mouse:
As far as i know it's mapped to cursor keys.

I don't think so. You can't use mouse instead of cursor keys in every software. It doesn't work. When you can use both (like in the games I have mentioned), you can move cursor much faster using mouse than using cursor keys, so it can't be just mapped.
http://sam.speccy.cz/systech/sam-coupe_tech-man_v3-0.pdf
Page 21, KEYBOARD register.

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Re: SAM Coupe core for MiST

Postby Sorgelig » Thu Jun 09, 2016 5:08 pm

SirDavid wrote:Besides, why have you done real CPU frequency for ZX mode? It's great, but why use it instead of ZX core?

It's free. Just matter of several lines of code. And there is a big library of imported ZX games. But i didn't see any ZX import using AY.

SirDavid wrote:You can change the record by " RECORD "name" " and names could be "demo_a_disk2", "demo_a_disk3" and so on.

and who decides the game wanting a second disk right now? Or may be not second, but third?

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Re: SAM Coupe core for MiST

Postby Sorgelig » Thu Jun 09, 2016 5:14 pm

SirDavid wrote:When you have 4MB of external RAM, two disk drives are not enough

Can you list heavy apps for SAM Coupe?
I really need some for stress testing.

SirDavid wrote:You can simply use BASIC (SAMDOS) commands. Insert the disk to the first drive and type 'boot 1' to load DOS without autorun. Then just type ' save "prog" ' for saving basic program (it can be even empty) or ' save "screen" screen$ ' to save screen. You can type dir or dir1 to check what is on the disk. To delete a file use ' ERASE "name" '.

these simple commands i've already used. They work ok. But i need something more heavy for writing tests.

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Re: SAM Coupe core for MiST

Postby Sorgelig » Thu Jun 09, 2016 5:26 pm

SirDavid wrote:
Sorgelig wrote:I don't think so. You can't use mouse instead of cursor keys in every software. It doesn't work. When you can use both (like in the games I have mentioned), you can move cursor much faster using mouse than using cursor keys, so it can't be just mapped.
http://sam.speccy.cz/systech/sam-coupe_tech-man_v3-0.pdf
Page 21, KEYBOARD register.

That's why i've asked you for software requires the mouse. How i can test it if i have nothing to test WITH.
Games supporting mouse and cursor keys are bad for testing because i won't know is it reaction for cursor key or mouse.
I have this tech manual long time already.
I need software requires the mouse.

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Re: SAM Coupe core for MiST

Postby SirDavid » Thu Jun 09, 2016 5:37 pm

Sorgelig wrote:Games supporting mouse and cursor keys are bad for testing because i won't know is it reaction for cursor key or mouse.

http://www.worldofsam.org/node/61
Batz 'n Balls game. First you have to set controls. You can't use keys and mouse together.

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Re: SAM Coupe core for MiST

Postby SirDavid » Thu Jun 09, 2016 7:49 pm

Sorgelig wrote:4) Can you provide the link for technical info about SAMDAC and LPTDAC? I also need software using both of these DACs.

DAC (also named EDDAC) is a standard covox for SAM, connected to printer port. SAMDAC is a standard (?) stereo covox, with channels selected by STROBE signal. Short info about SAM LPTs is here: http://www.mono.org/~unc/Coupe/Tech/comms.html
Software? There are several demos, but the most important and the best is SAM MOD Player: http://www.worldofsam.org/node/16

Sorgelig wrote:There is a problem to have many audio sources because at the final audio mix i have to reserve enough bits to sum all sounds.

I understand the problem, but... only one sound source is playing at a time (could be one exception of SAA and beeper), but I don't know if it changes anything. I wonder how SimCoupe deals with it.

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Re: SAM Coupe core for MiST

Postby SirDavid » Thu Jun 09, 2016 7:57 pm

Sorgelig wrote:
SirDavid wrote:You can simply use BASIC (SAMDOS) commands. Insert the disk to the first drive and type 'boot 1' to load DOS without autorun. Then just type ' save "prog" ' for saving basic program (it can be even empty) or ' save "screen" screen$ ' to save screen. You can type dir or dir1 to check what is on the disk. To delete a file use ' ERASE "name" '.

these simple commands i've already used. They work ok. But i need something more heavy for writing tests.

I can't remember any program for now, but you can check it by saving very large code files, for example save "name" code 30000,400000. What do you mean by "more heavy"? maybe a loop would be heavy? Just an example:
for i=0 to 10: save over "name" code 30000+i,400000+i: next i

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Re: SAM Coupe core for MiST

Postby Sorgelig » Fri Jun 10, 2016 3:59 am

SirDavid wrote:I can't remember any program for now, but you can check it by saving very large code files, for example save "name" code 30000,400000. What do you mean by "more heavy"? maybe a loop would be heavy? Just an example:
for i=0 to 10: save over "name" code 30000+i,400000+i: next i

How can i be sure it was written correctly?
When i was adding write ability to BK0011M i had there good file manager similar to Norton Commander. Just press F5 and copy as many files as i want. Then run these programs to check if they are still working.

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Re: SAM Coupe core for MiST

Postby SirDavid » Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:36 am

Sorgelig wrote:How can i be sure it was written correctly?
When i was adding write ability to BK0011M i had there good file manager similar to Norton Commander. Just press F5 and copy as many files as i want. Then run these programs to check if they are still working.

I can't remember any file manager for SAM, but you can copy all files from disk 2 to disk 1 by ' copy "d2" to "d1" ' or ' backup "d2" to "d1" 'and then check if they are working.

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Re: SAM Coupe core for MiST

Postby SirDavid » Fri Jun 10, 2016 6:20 am

More about D/A converters, if needed:
http://velesoft.speccy.cz/samdac-cz.htm

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Re: SAM Coupe core for MiST

Postby SirDavid » Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:07 am

The best for testing mouse:
http://www.worldofsam.org/node/214

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Re: SAM Coupe core for MiST

Postby Sorgelig » Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:44 am

New release:
- Disk write support (wait for new firmware to be released).
- Mouse support.
Readme has been updated with some useful notes. Please read it.

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Re: SAM Coupe core for MiST

Postby javidoom » Fri Jun 10, 2016 10:08 am

Awesome. Thanks!

I'm a bit busy this weeks, but sure I'll love it!

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Re: SAM Coupe core for MiST

Postby vebxenon » Fri Jun 10, 2016 1:07 pm

Sorgelig wrote:New release:
- Disk write support (wait for new firmware to be released).
- Mouse support.
Readme has been updated with some useful notes. Please read it.


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