MiST VGA Compatibility

https://github.com/mist-devel/mist-board/wiki

Moderators: Mug UK, Zorro 2, Greenious, spiny, Moderator Team

User avatar
DrOG
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 527
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2016 8:23 pm
Location: Gyula, Hungary

Re: MiST VGA Compatibility

Postby DrOG » Mon Jul 03, 2017 6:58 am

PlusTOO is 1024x768@60Hz, nothing special. Even my LE40B650 accepts it. Could you test the less common ones please?

User avatar
DrOG
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 527
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2016 8:23 pm
Location: Gyula, Hungary

Re: MiST VGA Compatibility

Postby DrOG » Mon Jul 03, 2017 7:49 pm

I made some further investigations, and my daughter's LG DM2352 identifies the TRS-80's scandoubler disabled singal via SCART as 576i50Hz instead of 720x288@60Hz. Strange...
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

AdvancedFollower
Atari User
Atari User
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:59 pm
Location: Uppsala, Sweden

Re: MiST VGA Compatibility

Postby AdvancedFollower » Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:03 pm

I just got the Mist and I've been testing it with my GW2750HM monitor.
According to the specs it has Horizontal Refresh Rate 30 - 83 kHz, Vertical Refresh Rate 50 - 76 Hz.

So far, most cores have worked just fine and provide a crisp image. I've tried Amiga (NTSC and PAL at everything from 320x200 to 1280x512 interlaced), C64, Spectrum, ZX81, NES and SMS. The monitor has an option for aspect-correct (with black borders) or stretched.

The only 2 cores that haven't worked are the Amstrad and the Atari. Immediately upon loading them, I just get the "Out of Sync" message on the screen. I tried several different images of TOS (UK, USA, Sweden..) but the result is always the same.

I'm guessing the only way to get those working is with some additional hardware? Or are there any software tweaks I could try?

User avatar
DrOG
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 527
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2016 8:23 pm
Location: Gyula, Hungary

Re: MiST VGA Compatibility

Postby DrOG » Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:37 pm

AdvancedFollower wrote:I just got the Mist and I've been testing it with my GW2750HM monitor....
The only 2 cores that haven't worked are the Amstrad and the Atari. Immediately upon loading them, I just get the "Out of Sync" message on the screen. I tried several different images of TOS (UK, USA, Sweden..) but the result is always the same.
...

Hi!

Does your monitor support interlaced (scandoubler disabled) mode and composite sync over VGA pin 13?

I see the specs are from 30kHz to 83kHz, but I think it worths to try: after selecting the problematic core, try to push the MiST's middle button for a longer period (2 secs).

The new Amstrad core has an option to switch between 800x600@73Hz and 720x576@50Hz, but first you need to access the menu to modify this. It needs some additional files as well to work properly:
https://github.com/mist-devel/mist-bina ... strad/ROMs

I suppose You mean the Atari ST core. We have an Atari 2600 and an Atari 800 XL/5200 core also.
The ST core has 6 different video modes:
PAL interlaced, PAL 50Hz VGA, PAL 56Hz VGA, NTSC interlaced, NTSC VGA and B&W. You can modify the video standard with the TOS file you use: i.e. UK version results PAL, the US NTSC modes to be available. Between PAL modes (50/56Hz) and B/W you need to use the menu, which is difficult if you have no video...

Atari 2600 has no compatibility issues, Atari XL / 5200 needs some additional ROM files and special folder structure on SD card:
https://github.com/mist-devel/mist-bina ... readme.txt

Regards: Gábor

AdvancedFollower
Atari User
Atari User
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:59 pm
Location: Uppsala, Sweden

Re: MiST VGA Compatibility

Postby AdvancedFollower » Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:33 am

Yes, I meant the Atari ST core. Haven't tried the 2600/800/5200 yet.
Setting scandoubler_disable=1 causes out of range error with the Amiga and other cores which worked before, so my monitor definitely needs 30 KHz. With the Amiga core running, my monitor identifies the resolution as 720x576 @ 50 Hz btw.

Pressing and holding the middle button did nothing with the Atari ST core. With the Amiga core it causes "Out of range", pressing and holding again restores the image.

You're right, accessing the menu is difficult when there's no image :? Maybe if I knew exactly which keys to press (F12 - Down - Down - Enter etc.) I could try something else.

User avatar
DrOG
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 527
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2016 8:23 pm
Location: Gyula, Hungary

Re: MiST VGA Compatibility

Postby DrOG » Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:13 am

It seems that you are stuck in B&W mode, sometimes it happens...
The problem is with mono mode the refresh rate, it's 71Hz, which is uncommon, and some monitors don't handle it.

The easiest solution is to find a monitor that supports this video mode.

But I'll try to help you in 'blind navigation":

First set "scandoubler_disable=1" back to 0 in mist.ini.

Power on your MiST, and boot/Run the Atari ST core.
Wait 5 secs to start memory test.
Press [Enter] to abort memory test.
Wait 5 secs to boot the core to desktop.
Press [F12].
Press 'Down Arrow' key 4 times.
Press [Enter].
Press [Enter] again -> this option (Screen: Color/B&W) switches PAL/NTSC compatible and monochrome output. This resets the core as well, so you will have to wait to boot it again, but this will be visible on your monitor (I hope).

Regards: Gábor

AdvancedFollower
Atari User
Atari User
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:59 pm
Location: Uppsala, Sweden

Re: MiST VGA Compatibility

Postby AdvancedFollower » Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:37 pm

Just tried your instructions and it actually worked https://imgur.com/a/f5GJw :D Thanks a lot for the help.
So it seems the high resolution b&w mode doesn't work with my monitor, but ST Medium and Low color modes seem to work just fine, which should be enough for most games and demos.

User avatar
DrOG
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 527
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2016 8:23 pm
Location: Gyula, Hungary

Re: MiST VGA Compatibility

Postby DrOG » Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:42 am

You're Welcome!

seastalker
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 226
Joined: Sun May 15, 2016 3:44 pm

Re: MiST VGA Compatibility

Postby seastalker » Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:08 pm

Hey guys, I may repeat this info in a couple of related threads, but I've come up with a potential solution. I'm at least 90% there. It involved the purchase of a few products:

Amazon links:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MZ ... UTF8&psc=1

and

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01E5 ... UTF8&psc=1

Connect the latter to the MIST and the former to your monitor: Disclaimer- I am still testing! So far S-video only. This works well on a Sony Triniton huge CRT tv, as well as on my Dell flat panel monitor with an S-video input. Apple II core with Oregon Trail look glorious as does the snowy default "choose your core" core. Amiga looks great too.

Minor glitches do seem to come up with resolution changes. Monitors with adapters plugged in without an input give color bars until you fire up the video source like the MIST. SOMETIMES the colorbars show up temporarily as you wait for a core to load, or if say the Amiga AGA core boots and then you load a game.

I also tested this on a Commodore 1084s monitor... the core select screen looks great but the Apple II mentioned test zoomed in and the monitor had a hard time adjusting. I believe this is a resolution issue so I will experiment with toggling 1 and 0 in each core's .ini file. I must give the Commodore CRT credit- modern tvs just go to black screens when they can't accept an input. The 1084s at least goes "I'll do my best." :)

User avatar
DrOG
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 527
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2016 8:23 pm
Location: Gyula, Hungary

Re: MiST VGA Compatibility

Postby DrOG » Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:26 am

Apple ][ core's resolution and refresh rate is standard (640x480@60Hz), but emits positive sync signals instead of the standard negative.

Having two boxes between signal source and display may cause an intolerable lag during games, please test it as well!

seastalker
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 226
Joined: Sun May 15, 2016 3:44 pm

Re: MiST VGA Compatibility

Postby seastalker » Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:08 pm

DRog, better late than never! A year later and remembered this post. Let me first update with new links to the same products:

1080p HDMI to Composite / AV S-Video Converter RCA CVBS/L/R Video Converter Adapter PAL / NTSC CVBS / S-Video Switch High-definition multimedia interface 1080P for PS3/DVD/Camara:

https://amzn.to/2BxHys9

and:

VGA w/Audio to HDMI Video Scaler Converter Box with Power Adapter VGA to HDMI Adapter:
https://amzn.to/2WMnA5U

So my chain is Mist VGA Out (and audio) to HD Video Converter input, then HDMI out to HDMI in on the HDMI converter, out via stereo RCA and S-Video out to yet another point in the chain: a 4 port VIDEO switcher in, then out to the S-video on the tv.

**LAG comparison of the above daisy chain vs. Mist VGA output to a Nokia Desktop PC CRT monitor.

I am shocked to say that an A-B comparison in many cores showed virtually NO difference in lag. I did not do a fancy frame test, but my eyes and hands felt zero difference and I do notice lag in emulation. Even a REAL Turbografx-16 daisy chained through a VCR to the same tv provides more noticeable lag than the above comparison. I love the Nokia monitor as my primary, but the bigger screen of the tv I will now do more often.

I thought these test results may excite others to try a VERY reasonable solution to hook your Mist up to a CRT tv.

User avatar
DrOG
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 527
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2016 8:23 pm
Location: Gyula, Hungary

Re: MiST VGA Compatibility

Postby DrOG » Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:42 pm

With or without lag I think that native RGB/component connection is the best in aspect of quality!
If your TV has a SCART or YPbPr socket use one of these!

If no, there are one-step solutions for composite/S-video, like this:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Arcade- ... 4c4djMOBVb
This one has no framebuffer, so no upscaling or framerate conversion, that means zero lag!

I think this is easier and cheaper solution...

slingshot
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 618
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:05 pm

Re: MiST VGA Compatibility

Postby slingshot » Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:19 am

For composite/S-Video, here's an extremely simple board:
http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/RGB_SVideo

Lroby74
Atari freak
Atari freak
Posts: 51
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2016 8:35 pm

Re: MiST VGA Compatibility

Postby Lroby74 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:37 pm

DrOG wrote:PlusTOO is 1024x768@60Hz, nothing special. Even my LE40B650 accepts it. Could you test the less common ones please?


I am using all VGA cores on my CRT 17" VGA Philips and are perfects!


Return to “MiST”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests