My other issue, ADSCSI-ST with CosmosEx

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My other issue, ADSCSI-ST with CosmosEx

Postby dblanch369 » Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:37 pm

Hey all, me again, with my other issue that perhaps the community can help me with. Part of the reason I bought the CosmosEx was to replace my aging hard drive, which is probably not going to last much longer (sometimes it refuses to spin up anymore). So I really need to get those files off of that old Hard Drive (including irreplaceable source code I've written). The problem is, I can't seem to get both CosmosEx and the ADSCSI-St to work at the same time. The ADSCSI-ST has an in and out ACSI ports, so supposedly supports multiple devices on the chain. I changed the SCSI ID on the drive from 0 to 4, to avoid conflict with the CosmosEx and hooked it into the secondary port of the ADSCSI, but no matter what I try, I can only boot with one device connected to the Atari's ASCI port, not both. Any thoughts? I'm not sure what else to try to make this work, and I fear time is growing short.

For what it's worth, I don't have any working floppy drives for the Atari, anytime I tried to write to them in the recent few months, then read them on another computer, I can't read most of the disk.

Thanks in advance, guys and gals,

David

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Re: My other issue, ADSCSI-ST with CosmosEx

Postby Mr Nours » Mon Mar 28, 2016 7:14 pm

Hi,

Could you please post a screenshot of your CE disk configuration?

Thanks,

Nrs.
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Re: My other issue, ADSCSI-ST with CosmosEx

Postby dblanch369 » Wed Mar 30, 2016 4:21 am

Mr Nours wrote:Hi,

Could you please post a screenshot of your CE disk configuration?

Thanks,

Nrs.


Sure. :)

Screen Shot 2016-03-30 at 12.15.47 AM.png


Screen Shot 2016-03-30 at 12.16.07 AM.png


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Re: My other issue, ADSCSI-ST with CosmosEx

Postby tin » Wed Mar 30, 2016 6:36 am

There might be a clash with the ACSI IDs. In your config you told your CE to react to 3 ACSI IDs, namely:

-act has SD card harddisk on ID 0 (e.g. "boot here first").
-mount raw USB sticks (atari formatted ones) and make them accessible on ID 4 (e.g. "boot here next if there's nothing bootable on SD card). Note that this is disabled by your currently chosen "Mount USB sticks as translated" option.
-boot the translated driver (CE_Dd, that translates USB sticks and Network drives for use in TOS) on ID 5 if no bootable sd card or raw usb stick were found

Assuming your external drive has ID 4, too, thats problematic - the IDs have to be exclusive.

This very well might not solve your boot issue - I for my part never tried CE in a chain with another device, so it could be an issue in itself.

Let us know if this changes anything.

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Re: My other issue, ADSCSI-ST with CosmosEx

Postby Jookie » Wed Mar 30, 2016 12:33 pm

tin wrote:I for my part never tried CE in a chain with another device, so it could be an issue in itself.


Chaining CE with some other ACSI device on ACSI bus might be problematic - there wasn't a clear specification on how to do that, so there might be some issue with that.

Chaining on SCSI bus might be better choice, but I guess only on real SCSI-2 buses like in TT and Falcon - some older ACSI-to-SCSI adaptors didn't have the correct signals timing and caused issues with CosmosEx device.

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Re: My other issue, ADSCSI-ST with CosmosEx

Postby dblanch369 » Wed Mar 30, 2016 1:19 pm

tin wrote:There might be a clash with the ACSI IDs. In your config you told your CE to react to 3 ACSI IDs, namely:

-act has SD card harddisk on ID 0 (e.g. "boot here first").
-mount raw USB sticks (atari formatted ones) and make them accessible on ID 4 (e.g. "boot here next if there's nothing bootable on SD card). Note that this is disabled by your currently chosen "Mount USB sticks as translated" option.
-boot the translated driver (CE_Dd, that translates USB sticks and Network drives for use in TOS) on ID 5 if no bootable sd card or raw usb stick were found

Assuming your external drive has ID 4, too, thats problematic - the IDs have to be exclusive.

This very well might not solve your boot issue - I for my part never tried CE in a chain with another device, so it could be an issue in itself.

Let us know if this changes anything.


No, I set up ID 4 in the CE config, because I read somewhere that for the CE to read an external drive, it needed to be set to "Raw", that's why I set it that way. Are you saying I should turn ID 4 to "Off"?

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Re: My other issue, ADSCSI-ST with CosmosEx

Postby dblanch369 » Wed Mar 30, 2016 1:21 pm

Jookie wrote:
tin wrote:I for my part never tried CE in a chain with another device, so it could be an issue in itself.


Chaining CE with some other ACSI device on ACSI bus might be problematic - there wasn't a clear specification on how to do that, so there might be some issue with that.

Chaining on SCSI bus might be better choice, but I guess only on real SCSI-2 buses like in TT and Falcon - some older ACSI-to-SCSI adaptors didn't have the correct signals timing and caused issues with CosmosEx device.


Yikes, I was afraid of that. Can you think of anything I could try, Jookie?

David

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Re: My other issue, ADSCSI-ST with CosmosEx

Postby tin » Wed Mar 30, 2016 1:51 pm

dblanch369 wrote:No, I set up ID 4 in the CE config, because I read somewhere that for the CE to read an external drive, it needed to be set to "Raw", that's why I set it that way. Are you saying I should turn ID 4 to "Off"?


Correct - it should at least be set to an unused ID. Raw is only needed for Atari formatted USB drives, not for other ACSI devices.

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Re: My other issue, ADSCSI-ST with CosmosEx

Postby dblanch369 » Wed Mar 30, 2016 6:23 pm

oh ok. Something to try when I get home :D Stay tuned....

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Re: My other issue, ADSCSI-ST with CosmosEx

Postby Jookie » Wed Mar 30, 2016 10:56 pm

dblanch369 wrote:Yikes, I was afraid of that. Can you think of anything I could try, Jookie?


I'm not sure. One thing you could definitely try is to connect it through ACSI, not having anything other connected, not even that ACSI-to-SCSI adapter, and see if anything changes.

If it's not the bus IDs clash between the devices, then it still could be the incompatibility of ACSI devices on the bus. I still need to find out what causes this with some ACSI devices, but I can't test it with most of them - I don't have all those various ACSI devices, which are now harder to get, getting unreliable and expensive. And with the missing specification on the correct behavior of multiple ACSI devices on the ACSI bus this might be harder to solve.

So if you don't need to have other ACSI devices to be connected at the same time, then I would recommend having it without them to avoid problems :oops:

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Re: My other issue, ADSCSI-ST with CosmosEx

Postby dblanch369 » Wed Mar 30, 2016 11:13 pm

Well, I removed ID 4 from CE config, and hooked up the CE to the pass thru ASCI port on the ADSCSI-ST. The system booted the hard drive first, however, I am able to load images to the CE and access that image thru the A: drive on the desktop. So I copied the CE Config files over, but when I ran CE_DD.PRG, it said it could not detect the CE on any ASCI ID. It let me copy files to the Hard Drive, but not the other way around (presumably this is what I need CE_DD to be running).

/sigh

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Re: My other issue, ADSCSI-ST with CosmosEx

Postby tin » Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:11 pm

dblanch369 wrote:but not the other way around (presumably this is what I need CE_DD to be running).

CE_DD is not needed in order to have the SD card show up as an ACSI hard disk. That work is purely done by your hard disk driver - basicly the CE behaves as a harddisk for that use case, just like the Ultrasatan. You told CE "be an ultrasatan on ACSI ID 0" in your config.
CE_DD is only needed for translated drives (e.g. Mounts or Thumb Drives that are not TOS formatted) that need to be emulated ("translated") as tos devices.
That your CE "disappears" as soon as you chain it with the other hard drive is definitely unrelated to CE_DD being loaded or not.

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Re: My other issue, ADSCSI-ST with CosmosEx

Postby dblanch369 » Fri Apr 01, 2016 2:41 am

tin wrote:
dblanch369 wrote:but not the other way around (presumably this is what I need CE_DD to be running).

CE_DD is not needed in order to have the SD card show up as an ACSI hard disk. That work is purely done by your hard disk driver - basicly the CE behaves as a harddisk for that use case, just like the Ultrasatan. You told CE "be an ultrasatan on ACSI ID 0" in your config.
CE_DD is only needed for translated drives (e.g. Mounts or Thumb Drives that are not TOS formatted) that need to be emulated ("translated") as tos devices.
That your CE "disappears" as soon as you chain it with the other hard drive is definitely unrelated to CE_DD being loaded or not.


Ah, ok. I understand now. I wish there was something I could do to get this to work. But as Jookie has mentioned, chaining ACSI devices seems more like "voodoo", than something that is documented out there.

I am exploring other methods to transfer the files, but nothing has panned out. I tried hooking up another SCSI drive, formatted in FAT16 (I have a SCSI Adaptec Card in a old Mac Pro), but ICD Pro 6.5.5 won't recognize the partitions. I then tried an old SCSI Zip 100 drive I had, but it doesn't want to format the disks. I looked into the other networking methods using NE2000 cards and such thru the cartridge port, but no one sells the stuff to do it anymore. Sheesh.

Suggestions or ideas are always welcome.

David

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Re: My other issue, ADSCSI-ST with CosmosEx

Postby dblanch369 » Mon Apr 04, 2016 12:54 am

Just to update you guys, I was finally able to get a round-about solution to copying the files off. (sharing for the future benefit of others)

I remembered that I had an old SCSI ZIP-100 drive, and there is an old Mac Pro, it had a internal ZIP-100 drive. So I thought "What is I hooked the SCSI drive up to the ADSCSI-ST and format the disks as FAT16 in OS X?" Well, it didn't work at first of course, as TOS cannot write to drives partitioned this way, normally. But I did some research and came across BIGDOS, which would make the partition writable and replace portions of GEMDOS to allow the writing to those drives. However, the drive was old, and the process was slow, dealing with frequent retries (the other drive in the Mac had no problems reading/writing to the disk, only the SCSI version). But I was able to access and copy almost all my data I wanted to save, and now I have a working copy transferred to an SD card and humming along inside the CosmosEx. It took a lot of trial and error to get it worked out, but I am so glad I didn't give up! And I want to thank everyone who helped and responded, and others who have shared their experiences on these forums, it helped immensely! Special shout out to Jookie for this wonderful device.

Now I just need to get the share drive working.... LOL

David

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Re: My other issue, ADSCSI-ST with CosmosEx

Postby Jookie » Tue Apr 05, 2016 8:28 am

dblanch369 wrote:And I want to thank everyone who helped and responded, and others who have shared their experiences on these forums, it helped immensely!


Errr, and sorry for not being very helpful about this :oops:


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