ATARI HARD DISK FILE SYSTEMS REFERENCE GUIDE

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ATARI HARD DISK FILE SYSTEMS REFERENCE GUIDE

Postby DrCoolZic » Wed Sep 24, 2014 2:06 pm

I have completed the Update of my document ATARI HARD DISK FILE SYSTEMS REFERENCE GUIDE It is now in version v1.2a

I mention this documentation here because you will find in section 4 of this document the procedures to follow to install and use PPDRIVER1.x, HDDRIVER9.x, AdSCSI655, CBHD502 on a media.
All the procedures have been tested using SD cards connected to Jookie CosmosEx device. In general all these drivers works correctly with CosmosEx (apart from bug mentioned)

If you are not decided on what driver to use here are some advice:
- Do not use CBHD502
- If you want a free driver you have no other choice than AdSCSI655 and it works pretty well
- If you are using your machine mainly to run games (but not limited to that) and do not want to spend more than 10€ then buy PPD. This driver works pretty well and has some nice features. Note that this is the only driver that handles correctly multiple TOS&DOS partitions on Atari and Windows side.
- If you want a driver that has all the bells and whistles (XHDI, SCSI support, etc.) and you are you are ready to spend 45€ then HDD is made for you. This driver is considered as the best driver for Atari. So if you have ACSI, SCSI, IDE drives connected to your Atari HDDRIVER is the probably the driver you need to buy.

I urge you to read the first part of the document (chapter 1-6) as it provides a lot of useful information that it is good to know.Chapter 3 is important to find the limitations related to specific version of the TOS.
For the geeks the second part of the document (chapter 8-11) provides lots of in-depth technical information.

I am also working on CosmosEx user's manual that will cover setup and usage of CosmosEx apart from driver setup and usage covered here...

I am interested in getting feedback from readers to improve this document.
Atari_HD_File_Sytem_Reference_Guide_v1.2b.rar


Note that most of the tests have been done with my HDTST program see viewtopic.php?f=14&t=18408&p=158890&hilit=HDTEST#p158691
Currently it is possible to test a directory for TOS invalid file/directories (for example Long File Name). If time permit I will make a new version that will allow to directly clean a directory.

EDIT
Good to know: Currently if you have LFN in a directories this might crash your Atari (see chapter 3 of the documentation). This is something to watch if you mount a network drive with CosmosEx CE_DD driver.

This problem if ever existed has been Fixed
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Last edited by DrCoolZic on Thu Sep 25, 2014 3:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: ATARI HARD DISK FILE SYSTEMS REFERENCE GUIDE

Postby Jookie » Wed Sep 24, 2014 2:12 pm

DrCoolZic wrote:Good to know: Currently if you have LFN in a directories this might crash your Atari (see chapter 3 of the documentation). This is something to watch if you mount a network drive with CosmosEx CE_DD driver.


Can you provide a simple test case for this one? For translated drives (shared drive, USB media, etc.) CosmosEx does long to short file names translation, so when using CE_DD, you shouldn't see any long filenames on Atari, but their short replacement instead, so there shouldn't be an issue with that, and if there is, it might need some fixing (the same code does the translation from different case to all upper case letters, as ST sends the filenames as all upper case, or at least in some cases ;) ) This is not the case for SD card or when USB media is attached as RAW, because then the LFN are handled completely in Atari and the described issue can happen (and can't be fixed in CosmosEx).

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Re: ATARI HARD DISK FILE SYSTEMS REFERENCE GUIDE

Postby Gryzor » Wed Sep 24, 2014 2:13 pm

Wow man, just... wow. What I needed. Amazing piece of work, and so much to read!

Just a small note, it'd be better if you used a more readable font - this one makes text hard to read, takes up lots of space and doesn't work well with the rest of the fonts you use throughout...
Reality is that, which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. --P.K.Dick

.:.
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Re: ATARI HARD DISK FILE SYSTEMS REFERENCE GUIDE

Postby DrCoolZic » Wed Sep 24, 2014 2:44 pm

Jookie wrote:
DrCoolZic wrote:Good to know: Currently if you have LFN in a directories this might crash your Atari (see chapter 3 of the documentation). This is something to watch if you mount a network drive with CosmosEx CE_DD driver.


Can you provide a simple test case for this one? For translated drives (shared drive, USB media, etc.) CosmosEx does long to short file names translation, so when using CE_DD, you shouldn't see any long filenames on Atari, but their short replacement instead, so there shouldn't be an issue with that, and if there is, it might need some fixing (the same code does the translation from different case to all upper case letters, as ST sends the filenames as all upper case, or at least in some cases ;) ) This is not the case for SD card or when USB media is attached as RAW, because then the LFN are handled completely in Atari and the described issue can happen (and can't be fixed in CosmosEx).

Sorry it seems to work. I have tested a directory that I know has some LFN and it was handled correctly using HDTST.
I was not concerned about the "short 8.3" name as codded by Windows but by invalid entries that contains description of the long name. But it seems that you filter that correctly (entries with attribute 0xFA).
May be I have run this test with early version of the driver???

By the way I have updated to the latest version of your SW and now the file selector displays correctly folders on a network drive (called from C code). Thanks

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Re: ATARI HARD DISK FILE SYSTEMS REFERENCE GUIDE

Postby itaboy » Wed Sep 24, 2014 7:31 pm

Great job. Very useful guide! Thanks.

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Re: ATARI HARD DISK FILE SYSTEMS REFERENCE GUIDE

Postby Jookie » Wed Sep 24, 2014 9:46 pm

DrCoolZic wrote:Sorry it seems to work. I have tested a directory that I know has some LFN and it was handled correctly using HDTST.
I was not concerned about the "short 8.3" name as codded by Windows but by invalid entries that contains description of the long name. But it seems that you filter that correctly (entries with attribute 0xFA).
May be I have run this test with early version of the driver???


Unfortunately I can't read those short filenames in linux, and you could also have the LFN on non-DOS partitions, so the shortening from LFN to 8.3 is done in software and there's no filtering of the LFN (with attribute 0xFA) going on...

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Re: ATARI HARD DISK FILE SYSTEMS REFERENCE GUIDE

Postby DrCoolZic » Wed Sep 24, 2014 10:02 pm

Jookie wrote:
DrCoolZic wrote:Sorry it seems to work. I have tested a directory that I know has some LFN and it was handled correctly using HDTST.
I was not concerned about the "short 8.3" name as codded by Windows but by invalid entries that contains description of the long name. But it seems that you filter that correctly (entries with attribute 0xFA).
May be I have run this test with early version of the driver???


Unfortunately I can't read those short filenames in linux, and you could also have the LFN on non-DOS partitions, so the shortening from LFN to 8.3 is done in software and there's no filtering of the LFN (with attribute 0xFA) going on...

I understand that you may have to create the the 8.3 name but in the DIR table when LFN are used you have many invalid entries to store the long file name and you have to filter them? Hum may be you mean you take all entries in the DIR table that compose long name and convert this to ONE short name?

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Re: ATARI HARD DISK FILE SYSTEMS REFERENCE GUIDE

Postby Jookie » Wed Sep 24, 2014 10:12 pm

DrCoolZic wrote:I understand that you may have to create the the 8.3 name but in the DIR table when LFN are used you have many invalid entries to store the long file name and you have to filter them? Hum may be you mean you take all entries in the DIR table that compose long name and convert this to ONE short name?


No, that would be too low level, and it wouldn't work for folder shared using Samba or NFS, and not from Windows - there wouldn't be any DIR table for that, so I can't go and manually compose the LFN from that to one short name. Instead the linux API has functions similar to Fsfirst() / Fsnext() are used, but they return the long file names (and it won't let you go through the individual DIR table entries making up single LFN), so instead of returning directly that name to ST they get through a function (in Main App) which shortens then to 8.3, and returns that shorter version of FN to ST. When ST wants to open a folder of file which was shortened from LFN to 8.3, the Main App then looks through internal translation table and deals with the LFN internally (sends it to further linux API calls).

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Re: ATARI HARD DISK FILE SYSTEMS REFERENCE GUIDE

Postby DrCoolZic » Thu Sep 25, 2014 7:54 am

Of course makes sense. On Windows side you do not want to go that deep :)

Now back to HDD multiple TOS&DOS partition. The problem in EBR is not as badd as I thought.
I made some tests using a hard disk connected to the USB port of CosmosEx.
I have created 5 x 500MB partitions and left the other 480+ GB unpartitioned!
On windows it is possible to see the partitions.
However if you deeply analyze there are definitively some wrong values in the EMBR. Therefore some utilities like WinHex, Paragon Hard Disk Manager, PTEDIT, will not work as expected or will try to fix the EMBR (sometimes silently - and this will ruin your hard drive), but Windows can accommodate these errors. Also as some values concerned the size of the partitions I suspect that the partition can get corrupted.
I also suspect a problem of alignment of the partitions.

In summary: Although TOS&DOS partitions seems to work the solution does not seems reliable at this point. I will try to push Uwe to look at this problem. :mrgreen:

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Re: ATARI HARD DISK FILE SYSTEMS REFERENCE GUIDE

Postby AtariZoll » Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:28 am

Jookie wrote:...
No, that would be too low level, and it wouldn't work for folder shared using Samba or NFS, and not from Windows - there wouldn't be any DIR table for that, so I can't go and manually compose the LFN from that to one short name. Instead the linux API has functions similar to Fsfirst() / Fsnext() are used, but they return the long file names (and it won't let you go through the individual DIR table entries making up single LFN), so instead of returning directly that name to ST they get through a function (in Main App) which shortens then to 8.3, and returns that shorter version of FN to ST. When ST wants to open a folder of file which was shortened from LFN to 8.3, the Main App then looks through internal translation table and deals with the LFN internally (sends it to further linux API calls).

SImilar thing is done in Steem and GEMDOS hard disk emulation. Hatari too.
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Re: ATARI HARD DISK FILE SYSTEMS REFERENCE GUIDE

Postby DrCoolZic » Thu Sep 25, 2014 3:22 pm

Please note that the documentation has been updated (from 1.2a to 1.2b).
Minor corrections:

- Removed indication that multiple DOS&TOS partitions do not work with HDD. I still consider that this revision needs to be fix (bug inn EMBR) but the basic functionality is there and need to be tested.
- Added procedure to follow when you want to boot from a device other than ACSI ID 0 on a CosmosEx device (for example boot from ID 1). Unfortunately not so obvious.

The document is available at the top of this thread
viewtopic.php?f=103&t=26975&p=258694#p258694

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Re: ATARI HARD DISK FILE SYSTEMS REFERENCE GUIDE

Postby manic23 » Sun Dec 14, 2014 5:36 pm

Hello, I'm new here in fact this is my first post, just wanted to say thanks for this document, I think it's going to be really useful for me. I am new to the Atari and having just got my UltraSatan and looking for ways to format my drive so that I can use it in my Atari and PC, this was a god send so many thanks.

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Re: ATARI HARD DISK FILE SYSTEMS REFERENCE GUIDE

Postby Dela » Tue Apr 14, 2015 8:39 pm

Hello ,

I'm having trouble getting my sd set up as harddrive , I use ICD AdSCSI on a floppy disk , so i keep my floppy disk cable connected to the old floppy drive in order to load the program. But now the CE is only connected with scsi cable and ikbd injector and powered via micro-usb. When I scan for hardrives nothing is found.

ASCI id is setup as followed : SD to ID 0 ,CE_DD to ID 1
usb as translated on G:

Already managed to load images from usb , but need to get the sd-card working as HD.

Thx :)

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Re: ATARI HARD DISK FILE SYSTEMS REFERENCE GUIDE

Postby Jookie » Wed Apr 15, 2015 2:41 am

Dela wrote:I'm having trouble getting my sd set up as harddrive , I use ICD AdSCSI on a floppy disk , so i keep my floppy disk cable connected to the old floppy drive in order to load the program. But now the CE is only connected with scsi cable and ikbd injector and powered via micro-usb. When I scan for hardrives nothing is found.


Hello,

opening a separate thread for solving this CosmosEx issue might be a good idea ;)
I'm not sure what ICD AdSCSI software does, but maybe you should try ICD Pro or HDDRIVER instead (or is the software on the floppy just ICD Pro?).

Jookie


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