compatible Atari models with CosmosEX

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thu
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compatible Atari models with CosmosEX

Postby thu » Wed Sep 03, 2014 6:50 am

I finally had a chance to hook up the CosmosEX this weekend and unfortunately I couldn't get it to work. There was no boot loader screen and then the desktop was unusable when it finally came up. (The description of the problem is below.)

I have an Atari 1040STF with TOS 1.0, it has a 1985 date. I've seen a post or two saying TOS 1.0 hasn't been tested, so I'm assuming my Atari is just too old to work with the Cosmos since I can't really mess up the installation since it is just plugging in a few cables.

Not really sure what else I can do other than try to pick up a newer Atari.

Do the different model numbers indicate which version of TOS it has? Like, would all 1040STF's have 1.0 and 1040STFM's would have 1.2 or something like that? If that is the case, then what model would I be looking for for TOS 1.2 or 1.4?

Will the Mega's and STE's pretty much play anything that would play on a STF? I don't know anything about all the different models and am just trying to figure out what models I should be looking for on ebay.

-------

Here is the problem I was having in case someone else has run into something similar.

I hooked up the injector, plugged in the floppy cable, and then the USB micro cable for power. Turned on the Cosmos and let it go until the floppy lights came on and then turned on the Atari.

There was no boot loader screen like in the Jookie videos. Just a plain, grey screen before the desktop would eventually come up.

As soon as I touched the mouse, the cursor moved to the top-left corner and it started to continually chirp like a key was being held down. Couldn't move the mouse. It just kept going back to the corner.

So I'm assuming the Cosmos isn't "connected" to the Atari and isn't interpreting the keyboard/mouse signals.

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Re: compatible Atari models with CosmosEX

Postby Marakatti » Fri Sep 05, 2014 8:27 am

I've tested mine on 1040STfm with TOS 1.4 / TOS 1.2 and 1040STe with TOS 1.62. All of them worked straight out if the box once i did the one mandatory firmware update via Cosmosex ethernet interface. Before the update nothing worked at all.

MegaSTe isn't that ideal for gaming. What runs does it more smoothly than standard ST. Basically games feel better but there are lot of compatibility issues (faster CPU, cache, newer TOS 2.x) Fortunately there are many games that are fixed to run from harddisk and with 16Mhz by P.Putnik, D-bug and others.

Start was a very frustrating for me too but once i got it running i would never go back to floppy era anymore :)
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Re: compatible Atari models with CosmosEX

Postby Jookie » Fri Sep 05, 2014 1:07 pm

Hello thu,

as Marakatti mentioned, you should definitely do an update of the device, lot of issues have been fixed, and another bag of issues still need to be fixed.

Now about the compatibility with Atari models:
- the IKDB functionality shouldn't be affected by a type of model
- floppy emulation shouldn't be also affected by a type of model
- when using SD card in the SD card slot, it's accessed using HDDRIVER, ICD Pro or some other driver, you might have some limitations depending on TOS versions, but most of the stuff should work fine on all models
- when using USB drive or network (shared) drive through CE_DD (CosmosEx disk driver, a.k.a. translated driver), then there are currently some issues which I need to fix for some TOS versions - Most of the time I'm using TOS 1.02 on my STFM and it works fine, but there are some bugs reported for TOS 1.00 and for TOS 1.62 - this will improve, but it will take some time. In the meantime you can use the SD card in SD card slot if you need to work with something which doesn't work with this driver.

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Re: compatible Atari models with CosmosEX

Postby DrCoolZic » Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:04 pm

Dont expect any system with TOS 1.0 or TOS 1.02 to work correctly with hard disk
as John Townsend from Atari Corporation wrote in Towns' Little Guide to Revisions - Version 1.0

ROM TOS 1.0 - 520ST and 1040ST
The original TOS shipped with 520ST and 1040ST computers. This version is relatively slow and has a lot of problems with disk I/O. You should try to avoid using hard disks with this version.
Utilities: FOLDRXXX.PRG

MEGA TOS 1.02 - 520ST, 1040ST, Mega 2/4
This version of TOS fixes some minor problems in TOS 1.0 and has support for the BLiTTER chip and Real-Time Clock chip. This version is relatively slow and has a lot of problems with disk I/O. You should try to avoid using hard disks with this version.
Utilities: FOLDRXXX.PRG

Rainbow TOS 1.04 – 520ST, 1040ST, Mega 2/4
TOS 1.04 or Rainbow TOS, as it is commonly known is the latest version of TOS released for 520/1040/MEGA owners. It has been provided as a dealer upgrade. It has much more robust Disk I/O, Auto running of GEM programs at boot up, a fix for the 40 folder limit, and much more. Most of all is it much faster than previous versions of the Operating System.
Utilities: TOS14FIX.PRG, POOLFIX3.PRG, CACHEXXX.PRG, FOLDRXXX.PRG
...

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Re: compatible Atari models with CosmosEX

Postby SerialSinger » Sat Sep 13, 2014 12:24 pm

DrCoolZic wrote:Dont expect any system with TOS 1.0 or TOS 1.02 to work correctly with hard disk
as John Townsend from Atari Corporation wrote in Towns' Little Guide to Revisions - Version 1.0

ROM TOS 1.0 - 520ST and 1040ST
The original TOS shipped with 520ST and 1040ST computers. This version is relatively slow and has a lot of problems with disk I/O. You should try to avoid using hard disks with this version.
Utilities: FOLDRXXX.PRG

MEGA TOS 1.02 - 520ST, 1040ST, Mega 2/4
This version of TOS fixes some minor problems in TOS 1.0 and has support for the BLiTTER chip and Real-Time Clock chip. This version is relatively slow and has a lot of problems with disk I/O. You should try to avoid using hard disks with this version.
Utilities: FOLDRXXX.PRG

Rainbow TOS 1.04 – 520ST, 1040ST, Mega 2/4
TOS 1.04 or Rainbow TOS, as it is commonly known is the latest version of TOS released for 520/1040/MEGA owners. It has been provided as a dealer upgrade. It has much more robust Disk I/O, Auto running of GEM programs at boot up, a fix for the 40 folder limit, and much more. Most of all is it much faster than previous versions of the Operating System.
Utilities: TOS14FIX.PRG, POOLFIX3.PRG, CACHEXXX.PRG, FOLDRXXX.PRG
...


My Mega2 with TOS 1.02 using FOLDRXXX.PRG and I never had any issues with hard disks, except performance limitations; considering the native speed of USB/SD media, I would not state that CosmosEx should be avoided by the TOS 1.02 owners! Also, Jookie is developing on a TOS 1.02 machine as well. ;-)

TOS 1.00 is a completely different story, by the way...

PS: I confirm that so far everything works fine with the Unitor-N or the Notator dongle, in case somebody needs to know it.

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Re: compatible Atari models with CosmosEX

Postby thu » Tue Sep 23, 2014 5:34 am

Thanks for all the info. I'm just now reading through it all. I was having a lot of trouble logging in here for a while and then forgot I had asked a question.

I saw some instructions on Jookie's site about upgrading the firmware. All the instructions I saw though showed it being done through the Cosmos interface and I can't get to the interface.

Is it possible to update it from Windows? I tried hooking it up to a tv via HDMI hoping it would give a basic interface, but it was just a log list of terminal commands.

Looks like getting a newer Atari is going to be harder than I was thinking. There aren't all that many coming up for sale each week and most of those seem to be STF's or XE's.

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Re: compatible Atari models with CosmosEX

Postby Jookie » Thu Sep 25, 2014 5:57 am

thu wrote:I saw some instructions on Jookie's site about upgrading the firmware. All the instructions I saw though showed it being done through the Cosmos interface and I can't get to the interface.

Is it possible to update it from Windows? I tried hooking it up to a tv via HDMI hoping it would give a basic interface, but it was just a log list of terminal commands.


Well, you should see at least a login prompt on the TV (saying 'username: '), where you could log in or...
if you download Putty (ssh application for Windows), have CosmosEx on the network with a router, which does DHCP (to assign IP address to your devices), you can log into CosmosEx through ssh in Putty - root password is 'ce'. Then - depending on the image version you have, you either just have to do:

Code: Select all

/ce/ce_update.sh
sync


...or when you don't have that script, then do the following:

Code: Select all

wget http://joo.kie.sk/cosmosex/scripts.zip
unzip scripts.zip
chmod 755 *.sh
/ce/ce_update.sh
sync


That will download the newest software and apply it to your device. After that you can turn off the device, turn it back on and see if your ST behaves better with the device. Report what issues you hit.

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Re: compatible Atari models with CosmosEX

Postby thu » Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:35 am

Thanks Jookie. Those instructions are pretty clear.

I'm sure you are right about what I should have seen when hooking it up to a tv. I just saw a screen full of white text on a black screen as the Raspberry Pi started up and my eyes glazed over. I know absolutely nothing about Linux and had no idea what to do after it finished booting.

I should be fine now since I can do it through Windows.

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Re: compatible Atari models with CosmosEX

Postby thu » Fri Sep 26, 2014 6:30 am

Unfortunately, it just isn't working for me. I hooked it up to my network via ethernet and seemingly managed the update fine. It was missing that first ce_update.sh script, so I did the second one where it downloaded the scripts. Then ran the update and that seemed to be successful.

Plugged it back into the ST and I still have the same problem. The Cosmos driver doesn't seem to be loading. I turn on the Cosmos, wait for the blue light to blink, and then turn on the ST. A white screen appears for a couple of seconds and then the normal desktop loads. There is no black text at the top showing the driver is loading like I've seen on the videos and screenshots. Once at the desktop, moving the mouse causes a constant chirping.

I then went through the update process a second time with the same results. Each time I just have the internal floppy cable connected and not the hard drive cable. Whenever I try floppy and hard drive cables together, the white screen would appear with 4 bomb icons.

Not sure what else can be done if the drivers aren't loading. It's got to be an issue with TOS 1.0 right? It seems to work fine for everyone else with later models.

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Re: compatible Atari models with CosmosEX

Postby Sowden » Sun Sep 28, 2014 4:29 pm

SerialSinger wrote:TOS 1.00 is a completely different story, by the way...


Hey ho guys. I just wanted to weigh in on my 520 TOS 1.00 machine. I've been having problems with my box since I have received it. Some were problems like most people that were fixed with the first firmware updates or two. But I seem to have a similar problem that thu does. It can work if I leave the box sitting off for over an hour or so. When I first turn it on it will boot and work. But I seem to have connectivity problems from there. I will be in the config program and it will suddenly loose connectivity and its hard for it to find it again. My USB drive and SD card does not work either. But once I reboot it, it doesn't boot at all and goes to a blank green desktop that doesn't allow me to do anything. I can though boot it using ICD that works perfectly at that point. But I have no access to my USB drive at that point, which is what I really need for the floppy emulation. But at least there I can update it and set settings without any hassle. I'm working with Jookie to get it to work but I'm sure we will figure something out. So yeah, thats whats going on with my machine.

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Re: compatible Atari models with CosmosEX

Postby thu » Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:05 am

I finally discovered the TOS can be upgraded with a simple chip swap. So I did that tonight to get it up to 1.04 and it got me a little closer.

With 1.04, I was finally able to see the driver loader text at startup, but only if I had the hard drive cable connected. The O drive actually appeared too and I've never seen that before. No driver loader appeared though with just the floppy cable.

But then I moved the mouse and it jumped around a little and started constantly chirping until I turned it off. So something still isn't quite right. I'll try formatting the Raspberry Pi card and then reinstalling it. Maybe I messed something up while trying to apply the updates.

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Re: compatible Atari models with CosmosEX

Postby Jookie » Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:58 am

thu wrote:With 1.04, I was finally able to see the driver loader text at startup, but only if I had the hard drive cable connected. The O drive actually appeared too and I've never seen that before. No driver loader appeared though with just the floppy cable.


Yes, that's because the driver is loaded for hard drive - through hard drive interface and cable...

thu wrote:But then I moved the mouse and it jumped around a little and started constantly chirping until I turned it off. So something still isn't quite right. I'll try formatting the Raspberry Pi card and then reinstalling it. Maybe I messed something up while trying to apply the updates.


About the IKBD injection issues - see this:
http://joo.kie.sk/?page_id=529

I guess that writing image for the RPi SD card won't make any change.

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Re: compatible Atari models with CosmosEX

Postby Android8675 » Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:17 pm

Can I get a straight answer about running in TOS 1.00? I have a 1040 STf with this TOS and when I boot with the ACSI & IKBD Injector connected I see the CEDD Boot Loader message appear then I get an 11 bomb crash.

I updated a few weeks ago via the console login. Tried holding ALT on boot, but I don't know that this works on 1.00.

suggestions? Please be specific in your response and speak in small words, I haven't been using my ST regularly for decades.

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Re: compatible Atari models with CosmosEX

Postby Jookie » Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:07 pm

Android8675 wrote:Can I get a straight answer about running in TOS 1.00? I have a 1040 STf with this TOS and when I boot with the ACSI & IKBD Injector connected I see the CEDD Boot Loader message appear then I get an 11 bomb crash.


The straight answer is: it should work, there shouldn't be a technological barrier why it shouldn't work (or it's not known). If it doesn't work, then it's a bug and we have to fix it.

The longer answer continues with: ...all the reported bugs are in a list of this which should be fixed, and although I don't have any machine with TOS 1.00 around, I hope that this will be fixable. This doesn't happen under emulator (where I can choose TOS version 1.00). Although TOS 1.00 is not very good for working with hard drives, it should be enough for running apps and games from the hard drive.

Android8675 wrote:I updated a few weeks ago via the console login. Tried holding ALT on boot, but I don't know that this works on 1.00.


This is also a feature of the CE_DD, that after loading it doesn't become installed if the control or shift or alt is pressed, so no TOS 2.06 is needed for avoiding this driver being loaded - you should see a message like 'ALT key pressed, skipping!'...

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Re: compatible Atari models with CosmosEX

Postby AtariZoll » Thu Oct 02, 2014 3:43 pm

I don't own Cosmos Ex, so can give here only some experiences about regular hard disk drivers - what should be good for SD slot usage.
And I guess that "CosmosEx disk driver, a.k.a. translated driver" is different type of driver, not partition and sector transfer based, but on filesystem level, so hooked on Trap #1 file, directory commands. Something like GEMDOS hard disk emulation in Hatari and Steem. If that's correct, it is good for TOS 1.00 and 1.02, because they are very bad with regular hard disk drivers, and especially with little larger partitions.

TOS 1.00 is just useless, and many of drivers will not work at all with it - what is not fault of drivers, but TOS - it is not compatible with minimal standards required for proper work. Another thing is that 1.00 is useless with 4 MB RAM too.

TOS 1.02 specific problems: most known is that TOS 1.02 can handle partitions of max 256 MB , and that work is unreliable. That it needs Folder100 for better work. I did some tests with 250 MB partitions filled over 60%, and must say that it is practically useless. You will soon see some directories shown as empty, while there are files in, then some partitions as empty, incorrect infos about used and free space.
t102hdinf.png

As we may see, there are even not enough digits to print values over 99 MB. But that's smallest problem. There are often much worse displayings. Even with Folder100 it will lose access to most of data when partition(s) contain many files. I guess that when it was tested, only very small drives were available (in range of 20-40 MB). Then, pressing Escape in Desktop with opened partition window will refresh only displaying, but not rereads disk, as is in other TOS versions. All in all, any serious user, gamer must update TOS 1.02 to 1.04 or 2.06 (what is little harder) .

So, compatibility with CosmosEx is actually mostly TOS version related. If you don't use SD card slot, then TOS 1.00-1.02 may serve, although they are slow in many things. Otherwise, TOS upgrade is only solution, and will improve many other things too.
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Re: compatible Atari models with CosmosEX

Postby Android8675 » Wed Oct 08, 2014 11:13 pm

Jookie wrote:
Android8675 wrote:Can I get a straight answer about running in TOS 1.00? I have a 1040 STf with this TOS and when I boot with the ACSI & IKBD Injector connected I see the CEDD Boot Loader message appear then I get an 11 bomb crash.


The straight answer is: it should work, there shouldn't be a technological barrier why it shouldn't work (or it's not known). If it doesn't work, then it's a bug and we have to fix it.

The longer answer continues with: ...all the reported bugs are in a list of this which should be fixed, and although I don't have any machine with TOS 1.00 around, I hope that this will be fixable. This doesn't happen under emulator (where I can choose TOS version 1.00). Although TOS 1.00 is not very good for working with hard drives, it should be enough for running apps and games from the hard drive.


Yeah, planning to get some TOS 1.04 roms from B&C real soon, but a little concerned that it doesn't work with 1.00 when it "should". I'll play around with it a little more tonight, and manually update again. I see you pushed an update yesterday.

Jookie wrote:
Android8675 wrote:I updated a few weeks ago via the console login. Tried holding ALT on boot, but I don't know that this works on 1.00.


This is also a feature of the CE_DD, that after loading it doesn't become installed if the control or shift or alt is pressed, so no TOS 2.06 is needed for avoiding this driver being loaded - you should see a message like 'ALT key pressed, skipping!'...


Thanks for getting back to me, I'll play around with it a little more, hoping it's just TOS 1.00 and not something more serious like the CE itself.

-A.

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Re: compatible Atari models with CosmosEX

Postby Jookie » Fri Oct 10, 2014 5:36 am

Android8675 wrote:Yeah, planning to get some TOS 1.04 roms from B&C real soon, but a little concerned that it doesn't work with 1.00 when it "should". I'll play around with it a little more tonight, and manually update again. I see you pushed an update yesterday.


Yeah, I too am wondering what's wrong there... But few days ago I bought a 520 ST (hopefully with TOS 1.00) so in few days (when it arrives) I will see what's happening there...

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Re: compatible Atari models with CosmosEX

Postby DrCoolZic » Fri Oct 10, 2014 3:47 pm

I may have one somewhere :)
I'll try to find it

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Re: compatible Atari models with CosmosEX

Postby Android8675 » Tue Oct 14, 2014 5:45 pm

Jookie wrote:
Android8675 wrote:Yeah, planning to get some TOS 1.04 roms from B&C real soon, but a little concerned that it doesn't work with 1.00 when it "should". I'll play around with it a little more tonight, and manually update again. I see you pushed an update yesterday.


Yeah, I too am wondering what's wrong there... But few days ago I bought a 520 ST (hopefully with TOS 1.00) so in few days (when it arrives) I will see what's happening there...


You get a TOS 1.00 system to test yet Jookie? Let me know if you're getting 3, 4 or 11 bomb errors right when you see CEDD Boot Loader message appear on screen. I've been poking around, starting to wonder if the ST is having power issues and could be the source of the frustration. I looked at the PSU, no extended caps, but I have no idea/tools for testing a PSU. System works great if I pop a game disk in the drive and boot it, but the CE just doesn't want to startup.

Thanks again,
-A.

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Re: compatible Atari models with CosmosEX

Postby Android8675 » Wed Nov 05, 2014 4:53 pm

Finally ordered some TOS roms from B&C, should get them by next week, hopefully in time for the weekend. Any word on testing with 1.00 TOS roms or what might be causing my problem?

Also I'm looking for an external drive (Either SF354 or SF314) to mount me CE in. Anyone selling? Doesn't need to be working, needs to have a PSU/Drive cable though. :)

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Re: compatible Atari models with CosmosEX

Postby Jookie » Fri Nov 07, 2014 8:33 am

Android8675 wrote:You get a TOS 1.00 system to test yet Jookie? Let me know if you're getting 3, 4 or 11 bomb errors right when you see CEDD Boot Loader message appear on screen.


Android8675 wrote:Any word on testing with 1.00 TOS roms or what might be causing my problem?


Yes, I did some tests, and I'm always receiving 4 bombs after the 'CEDD Boot Loader' message. This is due to something (TOS?) interfering with the communication when CEDD Boot Loader tries to load the rest of the driver.
Things I did:
- tried to disable interrupts (setting 7 to interrupt mask part of status register) - this didn't help :(
- added one second delay before trying to load the rest - this works 8O , the communication is then without interference, but adds annoying delay before loading the driver
- I've added sending a checksum to every sector of the driver and checking it when loading the driver, so when there's some interference, the corrupted / not loaded sector gets loaded again (and again, ...) until it's fine - this works, no bombs, doesn't slow the process when everything is going well, so this will be in the next update...

The rest then looks ok - it boots to desktop, it shows the content of translated drives, but I didn't test much on any other interference with the communication. The thing I would like to find out is what is causing the interference of the DMA communication and how to avoid / prevent it, but I might need help from someone with more low level knowledge of TOS and its work with the DMA...

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Re: compatible Atari models with CosmosEX

Postby DrCoolZic » Fri Nov 07, 2014 1:00 pm

Could this be related with the 4 bombs I see when loading CE_DD with TOS 2.06 ?

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Re: compatible Atari models with CosmosEX

Postby Jookie » Fri Nov 07, 2014 1:19 pm

DrCoolZic wrote:Could this be related with the 4 bombs I see when loading CE_DD with TOS 2.06 ?


These 4 bombs appear right after you see 'CEDD Boot Loader' on ST with TOS 1.00, while the TOS 2.06 bombs appear after the driver is loaded and is able to write 'Setting boot drive to O', right? If that's the case, then this one is different - probably related to setting that boot drive.

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Re: compatible Atari models with CosmosEX

Postby DrCoolZic » Fri Nov 07, 2014 1:25 pm

right

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Re: compatible Atari models with CosmosEX

Postby Jookie » Wed Nov 12, 2014 3:27 am

Android8675 wrote:You get a TOS 1.00 system to test yet Jookie? Let me know if you're getting 3, 4 or 11 bomb errors right when you see CEDD Boot Loader message appear on screen.


The previously mentioned workaround for those 4 bombs on start up is in the latest update:
http://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=103&t=26842&p=261689#p261689

To update the firmware just through Raspberry Pi (e.g. through ssh), run /ce/ce_update.sh script.

If you don't have that update script on your RPi, you can do the following:

Code: Select all

cd /ce
wget http://joo.kie.sk/cosmosex/scripts.zip
unzip scripts.zip
chmod 755 *.sh


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