24 & 32 bpp modes

News, Support and Development discussions relating to SuperVidel.

Moderators: Mug UK, lp, [ProToS], moondog/.tSCc., instream, Moderator Team, Nature

Paolo
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 456
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 3:43 pm
Location: Italy

24 & 32 bpp modes

Postby Paolo » Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:45 am

Hi, all! I have a question about truecolor modes in SuperVidel.
By reading the SV.inf file, you see that the 8bit chunky and 24 bit modes are set to false, with the comment that NVDI takes care of them.
When I open the videomode dialog, however, the 8bit mode is enabled and the 24 and 32 bit modes are disabled, no matter if I use a low resolution, double line or whatever.

I can't understand why NVDI lets me select the 8bitc mode and not the 24 bit mode.
I couldn't find any reference to this in the manual.

And, by the way, what is an 8-bit chunky mode?

User avatar
lp
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 2324
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 11:09 pm
Location: GFA Headquarters
Contact:

Re: 24 & 32 bpp modes

Postby lp » Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:26 am

8-bit chunky mode is a 256 color mode, buts it stored differently. Its not arranged in bit plane interleave format like Atari normally uses. Its laid out like a typical PC video card. Each byte is simply a pixel, the first byte is the first pixel on the screen, the 2nd byte is the one to the right, and so on. Its useful for applications like VNC.

instream
Nature
Nature
Posts: 167
Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:08 am
Location: Göteborg, Sweden
Contact:

Re: 24 & 32 bpp modes

Postby instream » Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:48 am

And the 8bit chunky mode is really useful when porting old PC games like Quake. No chunky-to-planar conversion routine is needed anymore, which should save lots of CPU time. :D
Regarding the original question I hope Pep will give you an answer soon, because I can't :lol:

User avatar
shoggoth
Nature
Nature
Posts: 923
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 9:21 am
Location: Halmstad, Sweden
Contact:

Re: 24 & 32 bpp modes

Postby shoggoth » Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:37 pm

Hi Paolo,

First of all - you'll need to supply some more info because otherwise it can be a bit difficult to answer your questions! :)
- Did you install NVDI (and in such case - which version)
- Does NVDI start AFTER SV_XBIOS.PRG
- Did you copy the SuperVidel NVDI drivers (SVSCREEN.SYS, SV_BPSxx.SYS) to your GEMSYS folder?
- Do you use the ASSIGN.SYS file provided with the SuperVidel drivers, or did your modify your own? In case of the latter - did you make sure that the device entries in this file are written *exactly* they way they're written in the supplied ASSIGN.SYS file? Did you put this file in the correct place (usually C:\)?
- Which version of the CT60-TOS are you using?

Basically, a faulty installation step can appear to "work", but there can be annoying side effects.

Paolo wrote:By reading the SV.inf file, you see that the 8bit chunky and 24 bit modes are set to false, with the comment that NVDI takes care of them.When I open the videomode dialog, however, the 8bit mode is enabled and the 24 and 32 bit modes are disabled, no matter if I use a low resolution, double line or whatever.


The 8bpp chunky and 32bpp modes are disabled by default since Atari didn't 100% finish the TOS4 VDI for these modes. The NVDI drivers enabled support for them since NVDI has full support for these modes. If you like you can enable them in SV.INF too, but it's not very useful since some applications/icons etc can look a bit wrong. The "Operating Mode" setting in the desktop resolution dialog *must* be set to "SUPER" or these modes won't be available. If you still have trouble setting a 32bpp mode, we'll have to investigate it (because it's supposed to work; it works on my machine here using the same driver version).

I can't understand why NVDI lets me select the 8bitc mode and not the 24 bit mode.


The SuperVidel doesn't actually have a 24-bit mode; it "only" has 16-bit and 32-bit truecolor modes. This is because 32-bit modes are actually much more efficient. 24-bit mode was planned, but really it's a 150% useless feature because it's slower than 32-bit modes, and it doesn't support alpha blending etc. So take a deep breath and just forget about 24-bit graphics, because 32-bit graphics is way much cooler :)

I couldn't find any reference to this in the manual.


To be honest - the SV.INF file is a late invention and isn't documented because of that. The contents of it *will* change somewhat the next few driver versions. You can try changing the options in it, some of them are attached to a function and some are not. Most notably the file is used to select boot resolution and to select a resolution for the AES (default VDI workstation resolution) etc. The other stuff may change, and there will be new options for dual screen configuration etc. So don't worry too much about it right now, and if you have questions about settings, post them here and I'll answer then for you!
Ain't no space like PeP-space.

Paolo
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 456
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 3:43 pm
Location: Italy

Re: 24 & 32 bpp modes

Postby Paolo » Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:26 pm

Shoggoth, I was starting to answer your questions (I am not near my Falcon right now, but basically: yes,yes,yes,handmade mod,don't remember how to check) :-P
However, one line you wrote inspired me, and I set to TRUE the 32bitmode line in SV.inf!

I made the switch to a 32bpp mode, AND IT WORKED! But now I can't see the desktop icons, the are all white HAHA! Programs work, though.

So, while waiting for better answers than those I gave you above, my next question would be: Is there the chance to have working 32 bit icons?

User avatar
shoggoth
Nature
Nature
Posts: 923
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 9:21 am
Location: Halmstad, Sweden
Contact:

Re: 24 & 32 bpp modes

Postby shoggoth » Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:53 pm

Paolo wrote:Shoggoth, I was starting to answer your questions (I am not near my Falcon right now, but basically: yes,yes,yes,handmade mod,don't remember how to check) :-P
However, one line you wrote inspired me, and I set to TRUE the 32bitmode line in SV.inf!

I made the switch to a 32bpp mode, AND IT WORKED! But now I can't see the desktop icons, the are all white HAHA! Programs work, though.

So, while waiting for better answers than those I gave you above, my next question would be: Is there the chance to have working 32 bit icons?


Which operating system are you using? The TOS AES has some issues with 32bpp - these issues *can* be fixed but I haven't done so yet. It works in all other AES:s afaik (Geneva, MagiC, XaAES, MyAES, NAES). If this is a huge problem, I'll put some effort into it, but honestly I'd rather spend this energy on some other parts of the drivers for now.

I'm surprised what you describe works though; my SV.INF looks like this (below) and I *have* access to 32bpp provided that I use NVDI/SVSCREEN.SYS (if I don't use NVDI, 32bpp will be disabled). Note that "disabled" doesn't mean the mode isn't available, it just means it's "gray" in the resolution dialog (32bpp modecodes still give a 32bpp resolution).

; SuperVidel Configuration File
;
;

[VDI] ; Settings which affect (N)VDI behavior
default = $441c ; Specifies a default resolution if none is specified by the AES
;forced = $4018 ; Overrides the resolution specified by the AES
dual = off ;
vdi_bps8c = false ; allow 8-bit chunky in TOS VDI (enabled by NVDI driver)
vdi_bps32 = false ; allow 32-bit TC in TOS VDI (enabled by NVDI driver)

[XBIOS]
bootmode = $401a
primary = VGA ; Primary display output.
clone = true ; If true, screen is sent both to primary and secondary output.

[HACKS]
rezdialog = true ;
fast_videl = true ;


... this raises questions to me regarding your ASSIGN.SYS file, because even though vdi_bps32 = false, SVSCREEN.SYS enables it during loading... if SVSCREEN.SYS isn't properly defined in ASSIGN.SYS, things may appear to work, but you may get side effects in your system.
Ain't no space like PeP-space.

Paolo
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 456
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 3:43 pm
Location: Italy

Re: 24 & 32 bpp modes

Postby Paolo » Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:07 pm

I currently use MiNT 1.18.0 with Xaaes 1.5.5, NVDI 5.03 with all updates and Jinnee.

I made the 32bpp test only in TOS060, though and got the white icons.

my sv.inf is:


[VDI] ; Settings which affect (N)VDI behavior
default = $441c ; Specifies a default resolution if none is specified by the AES
;forced = $441c ; Overrides the resolution specified by the AES
dual = off ;
vdi_bps8c = false ; allow 8-bit chunky in TOS VDI (enabled by NVDI driver)
vdi_bps32 = false ; allow 32-bit TC in TOS VDI (enabled by NVDI driver)

[XBIOS]
bootmode = $441c
primary = VGA ; Primary display output.
clone = false ; If true, screen is sent both to primary and secondary output.

[HACKS]
rezdialog = true ;
fast_videl = true ;

my ASSIGN.SYS is:
PATH = C:\GEMSYS

01 SVSCREEN.SYS
6X10.FNT
6X13.FNT
7X13.FNT
7X13BD.FNT
8X13.FNT
8X13BD.FNT
9X15.FNT
CONS_05.FNT
CONS_07.FNT
CONS_09.FNT
CONS_10.FNT
CONS_12.FNT
s MONACO08.FNT
s MONACO09.FNT
s MONACO10.FNT
s MONACO20.FNT
NIL2.FNT

...and so on upto 10

May I ask you how to check which CT60 version I have? (I can't remember how to do it, while the config tool is 1.03)

Paolo
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 456
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 3:43 pm
Location: Italy

Re: 24 & 32 bpp modes

Postby Paolo » Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:41 am

oops! double post.
Shame on you, NetSurf, hehe!
gave me this error:
desktop/selection.c:806: selection_set_start: Assertion `s->root->gadget->caret_text_box != ((void *)0)' failed.
Last edited by Paolo on Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

Paolo
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 456
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 3:43 pm
Location: Italy

Re: 24 & 32 bpp modes

Postby Paolo » Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:41 am

Shoggoth, you're right (of course)!

32bpp works in MiNT/Xaaes! YAY!

probably it isn't worth the effort of making 32bpp work on pure TOS, since
it works beautifully at 16bpp.

User avatar
shoggoth
Nature
Nature
Posts: 923
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 9:21 am
Location: Halmstad, Sweden
Contact:

Re: 24 & 32 bpp modes

Postby shoggoth » Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:06 am

Paolo wrote:Shoggoth, you're right (of course)!

32bpp works in MiNT/Xaaes! YAY!

probably it isn't worth the effort of making 32bpp work on pure TOS, since
it works beautifully at 16bpp.


It's not a priority right now, buy it will indeed be fixed later. Like I implied, it's really not a driver issue but rather a case of patching the TOS AES since it has a bug/feature which gives you white icons. NVDI has this patch built in, but I need to investigate and find a way to enable it. I'm not a friend of re-inventing things and make "dirty" patches to TOS; I'd much rather find a proper way to do it. Until then, use 16bpp on TOS. AFAIK only colour icons are affected by this, and all other AES implementations handle this properly.
Ain't no space like PeP-space.

User avatar
shoggoth
Nature
Nature
Posts: 923
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2006 9:21 am
Location: Halmstad, Sweden
Contact:

Re: 24 & 32 bpp modes

Postby shoggoth » Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:10 am

Paolo wrote:May I ask you how to check which CT60 version I have? (I can't remember how to do it, while the config tool is 1.03)


I think it is visible on boot up on my machine.

Personally I recommend v1.03c since it is the most stable one on my machine. Later ones behave very weird on my computer (even without SuperVidel).
Ain't no space like PeP-space.


Social Media

     

Return to “SuperVidel”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron